Well, just a little update. But before I do...I wanted to let those people know that I promised to get my old threads all linked together...that I am still actively doing that. But, it is a laborious task!! Hope to have it in my links section at the bottom of my posts shortly!

Anyway, Mrs. Mortarman and I went to the Marriage Builders Weekend in San Francisco this past weekend. For the first time, I got to meet Dr. Harley, his wife and Steve in person...as well as some of the support staff they have that I have talked to before.

I have been on here a long time. And have read just about everything here. And thought that this weekend would be about my wife, as I pretty much knew all of this. But I was wrong. Sure, I knew the principles (POJA, meeting ENs, etc). But what the weekend did was allow Dr. Harley to elaborate on these...to put "meat" to them. And in some cases, I was brought to a better understanding of the "whys" of many of the things we do here.

I wont go into the "stuff" that they went into this weekend. I think everyone here should schedule time and go. I really do.

My wife walked in very much skeptical of the principles. Sure, she had sort of bought in over the last few months, as she did see "some" things she liked. But she did not believe you could fall in love with anyone under the principles outlined. She kept saying before we went into the conference, that she wondered what my "friends" in there thought. I told her at the time that I am not sure if I know anyone there (still dont know if anyone there I know from here). But I just let her be...and let the conference do its magic.

There were about 20+ couples there. As we found out through the weekend, many were in fact, in a crisis situation. Some spouses were definitely there only because their spouse dragged them there. Many of the questions asked by soem of the couples belied that their marriages are on the brink. Mrs. MM even commented that there seemed to be many marriages there in much worse shape than us.

Mrs. MM told Steve (and me) that the question has never been whether she loved me, or I loved her. It has always been for her, whether we could make it work. She told Steve that it isnt so strange why we continue to get back together...why there is this intense draw between us. She understands that there is something about us that is special.

But she wanted to know that we can finally get it together...finally move past the mistakes of the past and have the ability to not "go there again." After this weekend, she has told me that she thinks these are the exact tools needed.

She also admitted that if we had these tools before, that we wouldnt be where we are. She even admitted to Steve that she has begun in this process to see where she failed, where she contributed to all of this...instead of blaming it all on my faults.

One thing I know for sure...Dr. Harley is dead serious about infidelity. All weekend long, he stayed behind the podium and lectured. But when he got to the infidelity part (which was about 45 minutes), he moved to the front of the podium and his demeanor changed. It was very evident how serious he was. About how devastating infidelity is to the BS, to the marriage, to family members and even friends. And even devastating to the WS! He railed on about our society, about why we have not done anything in our laws, etc. to combat infidelity and divorce, with all of the destructiveness that it causes. His message was very clear...and you could tell that he was deadly serious!

What was also a plus was to learn and understand that Dr. harly and the rest of his team arent just making this up as they go along. I knew this...but could tell many in there began to understand that they have spent years researching and studying all of this. that they have followed up their research. That they meet every week with the staff to discuss their cases.

I could go on and on about the weekend...but all I can really say is if you havent gone...you should go. The money spent is probably the best investment and will yield the best results you could possibly hope for in the end. The program doesnt end on the weekend, it just begins. There is a year of lessons, and follow up. Of Dr. Harley and the rest of the staff helping you walk through implementing the changes needed in your marriage.

Anyway, I do know this weekend drastically changed the perception of my wife. She bought in! By the end of the weekend, it was her pushing to set-up our lessons and time together (the 15+ hours a week). She even told me she wants to work on leaving her job shortly and finding one near my office...so we can commute together and spend those hours together too. She even told me she wants to begin our first lesson tonight and wants to get out our schedulers to schedule in our time together and to schedule our lessons. She said she wants to use the words used by Dr. Harley (e.g. such as his policies in how to do negotiations). All of a sudden, Mrs. Mortarman is the one pushing hard on moving our marriage forward under the MB banner.

On the flight back, she kept asking me stuff like "so, how would you like me to meet your need of ****?" And she went thru my top needs, asking me what she could do to meet them. She said that she really wants to meet all of them.

The change in her began months ago. But the tools she needed (and me also) to understand all of this, and to have to move forward...she did not have. Now she believes she does.

She also believes in me now. What I mean is before, she would believe I was just "mouthing the words" of all of these principles. But as she went thru this, she began to see that I am serious...and this is real. Steve even asked her if she had read any of my stuff on the boards here. she said "no." He said that if she did, that she would understand that what she hears and sees from me now is real. That I have been changed thru all of this.

She admitted last night that she believes this too now.

Anyway, it was a great weekend. I wish we had added some extra days to see more of San Francisco! Aand it did rain there all weekend, which kept us from doign a few things we wanted to. But, for the real reason we went there...it was an overwhelming success.

If you want the biggest bang for your buck...I'd say get yourselves to one of these weekends and get on the progam. No matter how good or bad your marriage is.

Oh, MM, I'm so glad to hear that. One of the posters here had to drag her hubby to the seminar. I've been waiting to hear how it went for them.

MM,

To bad you did not have more time. I live in the bay area. Yet, it is seems that FINALLY the process of healing is really really beginning. I wonder if your W will read your posts.

I wish you and your W the best.

God Bless,

JL

Wow MM,

That is GREAT!!!

You've just about convinced me.

I hope they post and hear what their take was!!

JL,

I did not know you lived there! But the good news is my wife wants to go back because we both saw a lot of things we want to see, that we didnt get to.

Yes, the healing has finally begun. I am sure of it now. Will she read my posts? I think so. I also think with soem time, she might start posting some. She has mentioned that she would like to be able to post her side of the story. I told her that everyone on here would love for her to do that. Including me!

Michele,

I mean it. You should go! It was worth every dime we spent getting there.

Me too.

Not many BS's stick around as long as you did MM. They all to often, and some way to soon, reach the point where they just give up all hope. Mrs. MM's story would be a valuable tool/resource/example for other BS's that just feel like giving up. Not to mention the valuable insight Mrs. MM could give to those in the fog. Having been there for so long and experienced so much "on the other side"...nobody here would be more qualified and perhaps have more insight than her to assist them (and I say that with all due respect...remember, I'm married to a FWW myself and I think she's terrific).

MM is a good friend. I look forward to meeting Mrs. MM.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - Did you get the feeling that Dr. Harley reads the forums from time to time, as in, was he familiar with you from your phone calls to him as well as your work in here?

Hey Mortarman,

I am so pleased you two are on the right track...I will definitely keep you in mind and hope you two are a success story... you guys are encouraging <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

...yes, i am the one who had to 'drag' my spouse there...thanks for your story, it encourages me to stay strong...

DW

I'm so very glad to read this update MM...And YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS, Mrs. MM would be welcomed with open arms...I'd love to give her a great big cyber hug!!! And someday a real one...Can't wait to meet the both of you...As I've said to you before...Amazing Grace...Yours, hers and most importantly God's...I'm doing the happy dance for all three of you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

P.S. Mr. W, I think you're terrific too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think it will take awhile before Mrs Mortarman is on par with Mrs. W. Mrs W definitely understands and has been a complete asset to these boards!!!!!!

Did I feel that Dr. Harley reads the posts? Dont know. But I do know Steve does. That is why his comment to my wife was what it was. That if she could read and see whee I came from, and what I write now and how I try to help...that she would truly realize the changes are for real. She commented to me on the way home that she realized in talking to Steve that he really does believe in me through all of this!

DW,

I would love for you to post what you thought!! There were definitely quite a few in crisis!

And we were the couple up in the right front!

We will have that meeting one day soon!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MM-

Wow. This is sensationally wonderful news! Not just for you, but for Mrs MM, your kids, and all of us reading about your journey here.

I know this has been a long road for you...but now that it's coming together, it just amazes me at how everything is starting to click for you and your wife. God has indeed been faithful to you, His long-suffering servant.

One thing you said that jumped out at me:


MP has said similar things over the course of the last year (she cares for me, etc...but she's not sure if it can work out, etc.). I wonder if that feeling is at the root of most, if not all, infidelity situations?

Thanks again for your willigness to share your journey with so many unknown people here. After reading your post, I might give some serious thought to seeing if MP would go to a MB weekend (she too is skeptical of MB, but she did have a session with SH last week and I'll be having my 2nd this week). If the weekend is as powerful as you say, it might be just the thing to give her not only hope, but the tools to re-invest in our marriage.

I wish you continued luck. I will keep your family in my prayers.

(((((Mortarman)))))

I am thrilled that things have been going so promisingly well for you.

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, but I still do stand in wonderment and awe of the ways in which God works out His promise to believers in Romans 8:28.

May God bless you both and continue the work He has begun in your lives and in the restoration of a marriage that brings honor and glory to God. What a wonderful thing is the "triangle promise of marriage in Christ."

High fives!!!!

Tell the Mrs we are rootin' for her

and you too, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Pep

this brought happy tears to my eyes



Pep

All I can say is..PRAISE THE LORD!!!

This story is one of HIS GIFTS to ALL OF US HERE in so many different ways!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We are definitely one of the marriages in crisis, however we are not yet separated...so not in plan B. My WH was the one who asked the happiness question...basically, if he could be happy with someone else. I don't know for sure if the A is actually ended or not...although I have to assume for now that it is. He is still considering leaving.

I really did enjoy and learn a lot from the seminar. I figure even if WH and I don't recover, I have some concrete knowledge on how relationships should work. Everything really did make a lot of sense and there is definite evidence supporting it. I can see how doing the homework will cause two people to fall in love.

I also recommend the seminar whole-heartedly. There is definitely a wealth of information in the program and I do look forward to hopefully mending our relationship.

He spoke of Joe Beam at the end, and that is the other seminar we considered....we chose this one because of the follow-up....although I do remember another post saying that was a great one as well.

One thing I do wish, though, is maybe if they could meet with the couples one-on-one for maybe just a couple minutes. I would have loved to actually meet S. Harley as well as Dr. Harley more formally, but my H didn't want to 'hang' around afterwards. Oh well, at least I was able to speak with J. Harley at bit more...we ate lunch with her and she was a delight to talk to <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ...i'm so envious of their relationship <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ...hopefully with the homework we'll get there....

Btw, when you say 'right front', do you mean on the left half 'right front' or the right half 'front'? ...only 'cause if you were the right half 'front' we sat with you at lunch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> if not, oh well...wish i could have met you guys

Mortarman would have been the one in cammies, with an armful of battle plans.