Just spoke with WS. Came clean about the IC and it was OK. He did not seem upset.

I asked if DDS12 was listening better since they got home. He said yes. He also said "Part of the problem is being here" Meaning living with his Dad.

Told me that FIL is "not being very nice to him. He yells at him a lot"

DSS12 has ADD and can be quite a challenge at times. Both WS and I have had our struggles with this. I can see that although Grandpa loves him very much, spending a lot of time with him can and does try anyone's patience.

So,, WS used this as a lead in to :

"I thought I had a good lead in on a trailer, but they rented it already to someone else."

Bugs - Quiet with no response

WS "I just don't want to live in an apartment"

Bugs - quiet with no response

WS switched subject and ended conversation

I was happy that I didn't blurt out with a big LB - - many of which were close to coming out!

I considered telling him again to come home. Why didn't I??

Afraid of rejection again??? I'm not sure.

Is it appropriate to tell them AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN without it being perceived as Pressure? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

D*MN!

I thought that getting his own place was maybe on hold since it hadn't been brought up again. We still haven't had a discussion about finances. Wonder how much he thinks he can afford.

My gut initial reaction was "Why are you being so stupid??!!" I just think him getting his own place will put us further apart and further endanger any possibility of recovery! UGGHH!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Plus, it's a waste of money! Downpayment, utility installations, lease, furniture, everything!

He just needs to come home!!!

Told the IC, that I wish I could take everything I have learned, all of the changes I've made, and the vision I have for our new marriage and inject it right into his brain so he could "get it" and come home!!

If we figure out how to make that happen, I promise to give it to all MB members for FREE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Bugsmom, I am also quite new here and I don't have any good advice for you but I hope that you will be successful in saving your marriage.

I read about the Valentines card your husband read to you and I don't think it came from OW, partly because of what lousygolfer wrote and partly because it seemed more like a joke than a real greeting.

I don't know if you have dropped the subject but my impression is that your husband read the greeting as a joke about you:
"Violets are Blue,
Roses are Red,
If you don't take me back,
I'll put a bullet in your head"
The joke would be that you could send him a card like that in your current situation. It is just my guess and I don't know if it matters anyway.

Not pressure..since he is the one that is bringing up the subject....



ALL CORRECT!!!



Cute..you're funny! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

How's it going today Bugs?

Try not to get caught up in the need to control things.
Downpayments, utilities, etc can all be UNDONE. If you try to stop the process it will come across as a Disrespectful Judgement -- that you are smarter than he is. Right now you need to just let some of those things happen. And untangle them later.

Same thing with your "brain injection" (LOL by the way...) I know you have learned so much and come so far and if he would just listen and learn all this could be avoided. BUT! You are the last one who can educate him. Get that idea out of your head right now.

Just sit back and let him scramble around you. You be the lighthouse. Its going to be almost funny to watch him come to grips with some of these things!

Lex,

Good morning!

Thanks for the reminders!

In fact I did have the specific conversation of WS not being at a place to hear about any of the things I've learned yesterday with the IC. We were talking about my growth and things that I want to share with WS. We both agreed that those things will have to come LATER, in recovery.

Last night I sent WS a text message -

"Just a reminder, you are welcome to live here. Not only are you welcome here, you are wanted, desired, needed and loved!"

This am DD6 did her morning call. WS was still in bed, staying home sick. Sounded TERRIBLE!

So, I dropped DD off at school, went to the store to buy "sick supplies". Thermometer, tylenol, a humdifier, fresh fruit, soup, crackers, juice, etc.

Went to FIL house with it all. WS was in bed sleeping. Woke him up to take his temp, which was OK. I was very concerned because he has been hospitalized before for pneumonia (sp?). His dr said he did have a touch of it when he saw him earlier this week.

I think that he is truly sick,,,, but I also think that a lot of this is emotional and due to stress.

He told me last night that after we spoke yesterday on the phone at about 4:45 pm, he didn't really remember anything of what he did for about an hour and a half. He'd gone back to his office and taken care of some things (apparently) and was on his way home when he "woke up".

He calls it losing time. I don't know what to really think about that. We all have had times where we walk around in a fog, not being real conscious of what we are doing.

Anyway, he stayed in bed. FIL was home as well and walked outside with me for a minute. We discussed WS's coming back to the company where I work. Glad to know FIL agrees that it is a good thing!

I mentioned to him that WS had said something about moving into his own place. FIL said he knew about it. I told him that I had told WS previously AND again last night that I would like for him to come home. FIL said he tells WS the same thing,,,,but WS gets mad at FIL so they don't talk about it much.

Although it's not being received as a "good thing" by WS, I am glad to know I have FIL support!

You are TOTALLY RIGHT, though. I have to sit back and be willing to let that happen. It can all be worked out later. In fact, it could be a good thing for when Plan B comes around. Him not having FIL in same house to help him shoulder his responsibilities so much will put more of the pressure on him (as it should be).

This is one thing WS has complained about - that he thinks I always have to be IN CONTROL. I've been working on that. A lot of it comes from my background. That if something isn't getting done or taken care of, I just pick it up and do it myself. Then I feel like I "own" it and have to continue to take care of it forever.

Reality is - several things I've wanted/needed WS to take care of (control of) and when he didn't (at least in my eyes), I did. Then I also held resentment in my heart about it, too. All MAJOR LBs that I just now recognize.

I told FIL that it has "gotten out" at my company about WS and OW relationship. WS is not happy about it, but if you play, you gotta face the music!! FIL agreed. I said that "supposedly" WS and OW aren't seeing each other any more, but that I did not know for sure.

FIL told me that WS told him that there was not an OW. WS said, "There could be, but I don't want that right now"

So,,,,,,,,summary for today - - Glad I was able to do get in some Plan A activities and not focus so much on him getting his own place.

Sill trying to learn about myself and make changes - Remembering ACTIONS speak louder than words, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Make It -

Thanks for the post! Sorry that you are here, but hope that you find it benefits you in whatever your current sitch is as well! I know if I had not found MB I would likely be in the middle of divorce proceedings right now

i appreciate your different take on the Valentine! Looking at it from that perspective did not occur to me at all! Love hearing what others see and hear for a change.

I have dropped the subject - dwelling on it serves no purpose at this point in time.

One of the things I'm learning is that it in order to do any kind of Plan A, I HAVE to let as much of that stuff roll off my back as possible. Holding on it it only makes Plan A HARDER,,,,,,,,,, and we all know it's hard enough already.

Of course don't let that sound like it was an easy lesson! I had to have my head bashed into the wall a few times AND then hit a MAJOR depression last weekend before I started to get that one!



Mimi - -

Thanks for checking in here! Glad to have the clarification on saying the same things over and over. That helps ALOT!!

While I know I am right about how stupid it is for him to get his own place, I agree with Lex. I have to let that happen (or not) as it does. I can't control it, I can't control him. I can only control ME and my actions.

My ACTIONS have to be ones that show him the way home. To show a home and a marriage that is different than before and BETTER for us both than any other choice in life.

You may find as time goes on, I tend to have a sharp edged sense of humor at times. I'm just getting the hang of posting and hope I'm improving in letting my personality show a bit more! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Stick around,,,,,,,,I don't know how funny I'll be in the future but I can guarantee I'm going to keep on needing good advice!

Thanks!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just jumping on for a WeekEnd Update! Funny, makes me think of Saturday Night Live and Dennis Miller!

Friday WS picked up kids for the weekend. He was feeling better. He asked if I had wanted to pick up kids from the sitter to spend time with them. I said no and hinted that I had other plans,,,,,,,,,,,,although I didn't.

We did have a nice chat - rather like "Old Times" Lots of joking and laughing.

WS called lawyer for an update on my tickets and called me back again. No updates yet, but said how I owed him for having to deal with this guy. He's a great lawyer when it comes to this stuff, but rather eccentric. ANY conversation with him is a minimum 20 minutes.

I told WS that he'd have to come be the house to I could "thank him PROPERLY",,,, with just the right sexual undertone to my voice.

WS "Well, gotta be there with the kids tongiht"

Bugs "Kids will go to sleep sometime"

WS "If DD6 wakes up and finds me not there, she'll go straight to Granpa and he'll be mad"

Bugs, "Just tell him where you are going. I know he'll be OK with it!"

WS "No, we're not getting along as it is"

Bugs "Ok,,, too bad" VERY upbeat, very HAPPy voice!

I made myself a nice dinner and was having a glass of wine when WS is at the door?!! WS comes in and in that funny, joking voice says, "I have 10 minutes before I have to pick up DSS, so I thought I'd come by so you can "thank me"!"

At first I was a little taken aback, with the 10 minutes comment, but it turned out that he was really joking so we spent the next hour "thanking" each other.

Sat am WS had emergency call from work and called me at 6:50 am. Asking if he could bring over DD6 while he took care of work issue. I said OK.

WS dropped her off, giving me a kiss on the way out the door. I didn't even stand close or act like I wanted any affection, so it was especially nice.

I wasn't too happy, though, that what should have taken 2-3 hours ended up taking 4! Made me do the crazy thinking,,,,, What's he really up to ???? But, I managed to let it go.

I had taken DD6 shopping for a b-day party she had later that day. WS took her to the party and called during it to give me an update. Funny, he actually said, "thought I'd call to prove I'm really here". Not sure what that was supposed to mean. It could be in reference to the fact that he'd told me he was the only DAD there,, all the rest were Moms.

WS, kids, one of his male friends(I'll call him Joe) & kids, and a third female friend and kids were going to a local restaurant/game place last night. The female friend is friends with Joe and I did not recognize her name.

I asked WS if this was a "hook up" for him,,,, Of course he denied it.

WS told me that they would call me,,,,,,,,but I have as yet to hear from them. We have a ritual that when either of us is apart from kids, we call once in the am and once in the pm before bed.

I am just a wee bit pissed that I haven't heard from them. Partly because it's only right and the other part is because it makes me feel so left out!!

WS will spend time with me for "thanking" activities, but God forbid we GO anywhere, or DO anything TOGETHER as a couple or a family!

Ok,,,,,,,,,,I'm NOT going down that road! Sticking with Plan A. Meeting needs, being the light house, with NO expectations of anything in return. Right??

Just one last note- -


LOVED and LEARNED SO much from Ark's Be Still and Mimi's Plan B threads these last couple of days.

THANK YOU for your bravery, honesty, and wisdom! I thank God daily for having found this site and for the Angels he has here!

Gonna go be still for a while!

I have to stay away from MB today. But I wanted to jump in, check on you and let you know that I am cheering you on. You are doing so well!!

I must get back to my refreshing and centering.

LS

Sis -
Thanks for checking in! Go Refresh! It sounds like it's doing you wonders!

For anyone else out there, I need some ADVICE!!

Ws just called and I am pretty PIS*D OFF!

Yesterday before 7am he calls needing me to take DD while he took care of work emergency, which I did. He too advantage by being gone 4 hours when it should not have taken that long

This am he tells me his Aunt called and needs him to go pick up a new fridge for her and then he has lots of things to get done. He's giving notice at work tomorrow, wants to clean out his office, and then get things done "at home"

So, he says' I'll need to bring the kids back early today. Aunt needs me there at 11."

He did not ASK, he just ASSUMED that I had no other plans! UGGGH!

Does he not think that I have things to get done??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I realize I LET him do this. But now here' my question -

How do I go about setting this as a boundry without it being a LB??

It is just WAY too convenient for him dropping kids off with me when he is supposed to be with them. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my kids and cherish every moment with them.

He's taking advantage of me and I need to fix this.

I know he's upset about having to take care of this thing for his Aunt. She has a perfectly capable son in law that lives with her that SHOULD be doing this. But, WS has always been the one to "take care of things" for her. He wants and needs this,,,,,but he also resents it.

So, do I bring this up now or wait until later?

Thoughts?????????? Anyone????????

Ws just dropped off kids - - VERY COLD interaction. Mostly because I kept back.

After WS left, talking to kids about where they went and what they did. Bottom line -

THEY WERE WITH OW AND HER SON LAST NIGHT!!

HELP ME!!!!!

I wanna scream!

I wanna die!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I wanna shoot him!!

"


Call him back....

You: "Would love to help you out but I won't be here because I already made plans. I should be home at "around"______________ (you name the time). Call me before you bring them back to make sure I'm here. Talk to you later."


Then go do something or just stay home. YOUR choice....
That's all there is to it..

Thanks - - Seems so simple, but I tend to overthink so much these days.

As you can see from my posts a few minutes ago, it is pretty irrelevant in light of the new intel!


If being with WS means my kids are with OW, I don't him to have them!

I just wanna PUKE!

Oh, Bugs!!! I want to pop your WS in the nose. He makes me ill.

Punch a pillow! Cry! Call a good friend! You need to vent, you really do. My therapist always says, let the emotions flow through you...do not bottle them up.

I will let others tell you how to respond (thankfully that's not one I've had to deal with).

In terms of the boundary setting, I had a conversation with WH once around the Super Bowl. He said he was working overtime and was dropping the kids off. I told him calmly and reasonably that was not acceptable; that I need some time for myself, that the kids need time with him. He seemed to understand....HOWEVER, I got an email on Friday telling me that he had accepted another OT opportunity for next Friday and thus won't get the kids until Sat. AM.

Hope others chime in on the OW w/ kids issue. Grrrrrr......I'm so angry for you.

Sis,

Thanks for the support! It does really help.

Right now, am having to hold it together as I do have the kids with me and I just won't put them in the position of seeing me like that.

They have seen my cry a couple of times.

Truth is, I want to go in and interrogate DSS to find out every little detail of what happened last night when they were all together,,,,,,,,,,but I won't do that either. Totally not fair to put them in the middle in ANY way.

What amazes me is he KNEW I'd find out. DD6 keeps NO secrets!

As mad as I am, I feel like he did this, knowing I'd find out, and he's WANTING me to push the button to Plan D!
In addition to the HURT and ANGER is that I feel he's also trying to MANIPULATE me too!!

God, is this the kind of man that I even WANT as my husband????????????

Okay, just to get through the next few moments, hours.

Could you pop in a DVD for the kids and go take a bath? You can cry while the water is running, or maybe play some music so they don't hear.

Get the kids occupied doing something so that you can take care of yourself. You don't need to be supermom. Plunk them in front of the tv if that keeps them distracted. Do they play video games, computer games? Indulge that today so that you don't have to be "on."

Take care of yourself right now...your kids will be fine. Do you have a friend who can come over and keep you company?

Whatever it takes.

Good question for you to answer...

Do you?

Sorry my answer was too late.
Be prepared for the next time. Make plans ahead of time, just in case.




You ARE allowed to be mad. You should be mad. The key thing about being mad though is that if you show anger to the WS, it doesn't work UNLESS it is the type of anger that comes across as I HAVE HAD ENOUGH.

Now remember.. If you are allowed to be mad with your feelings, then you should be able to understand and ALLOW him to be distant. No biggie. He wants to be distant, then fine. Let him. After all, trying to get them to move closer to you when they are distant comes across as pressure. Pressure doesn't work.

The question is.. What does work when a man becomes distant?

Answer: Just go on HAPPILY (staying equally distant from him) with your everyday life. He calls next time to bring the kids home early, then either tell him ok happily or tell him you have other plans and can't help him out this time. (which is the more effective of the two at this point.)

He feels you are no challenge. Maybe his "need" is to be challenged. Maybe his need is for you to give him space. Maybe his need is to wonder what is up with you and if he is losing you. Many on here get focused on the wrong needs.

If your child says they "need" to stay up late, does that mean you meet that need? If your child is acting unruly and says they "need" to play with the same toy another child has been playing with and tears it away from them, do you give them that "need", or do you sense maybe they "need" a little "boundry discipline"?

Food for thought. Be careful about only seeing the needs listed in the book.

Sorry my answer was too late.
Be prepared for the next time. Make plans ahead of time, just in case.





Good question for you to answer...

Do you?



You ARE allowed to be mad. You should be mad. The key thing about being mad though is that if you show anger to the WS, it doesn't work UNLESS it is the type of anger that comes across as I HAVE HAD ENOUGH.

Now remember.. If you are allowed to be mad with your feelings, then you should be able to understand and ALLOW him to be distant. No biggie. He wants to be distant, then fine. Let him. After all, trying to get them to move closer to you when they are distant comes across as pressure. Pressure doesn't work.

The question is.. What does work when a man becomes distant?

Answer: Just go on HAPPILY (staying equally distant from him) with your everyday life. He calls next time to bring the kids home early, then either tell him ok happily or tell him you have other plans and can't help him out this time. (which is the more effective of the two at this point.)

He feels you are no challenge. Maybe his "need" is to be challenged. Maybe his need is for you to give him space. Maybe his need is to wonder what is up with you and if he is losing you. Many on here get focused on the wrong needs.

If your child says they "need" to stay up late, does that mean you meet that need? If your child is acting unruly and says they "need" to play with the same toy another child has been playing with and tears it away from them, do you give them that "need", or do you sense maybe they "need" a little "boundry discipline"?

Food for thought. Be careful about only seeing the needs listed in the book.

Was it ALL of them together..was she alone with them?

not that it much matters..just wondering...