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#1819594 02/01/07 12:28 AM
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I am going to try and type a brief history of this whole sordid mess and then go from there...

October of 1999 - I sensed things weren't right with hubby. He was talking quite a bit about an older woman from his workplace. Started coming home later from work. Didn't come home one night at all.

December of 1999- I got him to admit he was having an affair with this older woman. It took me about a month or so but I called her husband and let him know she was having an affair with my husband. I immediately let my husband's mom know as she and I are very close. He swore he would stop seeing her. Of course he kept right on seeing her.

End of January 2000- Since husband wouldn't stop seeing her I asked him to quit his job and move out of state to stay with his brother and his family. The boys and I stayed here with the plans of moving when they were finished with the current year of school.

February 14, 2000- My husband couldn't live without the ow so he up and left his brother's with all his things and moved in with the ow who at this time had left her husband. He went back to working with her as well. I had no contact with my husband for a few weeks after he moved in with her... only an e-mail that was just something related to finances he needed to know about.

Beginning of March 2000- After that e-mail WH started e-mailing me and wanted to know why I never told him anything that was going on at home with me and our two boys. I replied and said I didn't think he cared. He started calling me and then started coming to visit every free moment he had. I did plan a of course as I had been visiting this site at the time for support. By the end of March he made it very clear he wanted to come back home.

April 7, 2000- He quit his job where he worked with her and moved back home and we started working on "recovery". Things went ok at first.

June 2000- He did have no contact with her but then she sent him a letter. He let me read the letter and of course she was so upset he left her. That really got to him.

July 2000- We were planning on moving back to our home state but then he got a new job working for the cable company. Of course it included travelling. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Definitely not a good job for a guy just coming out of an affair but unfortunately we were desperate for income as he had taken a month off work. I know now that they were secretly in touch via e-mail at this time and I am sure they spent time together.

Fastforward to March of 2001- WH got a new job with a laundry service where he only had to do one overnight a week. This was a huge improvement over the last job. He had to be trained by someone for a month and then lo and behold on his first overnight alone the ow's current boyfriend actually called our home looking for my WH. I said he wasn't home and he said... "Funny, OW isn't home either and we can't find her anywhere!" I then called my husband at his hotel and he denied she was there. Her boyfriend and daughter were on their way to the hotel which was a 3 hour drive to see if they could catch them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> They did find her enroute back to their home from the direction of where my husband was staying.

I did discover then at this time that they had been in contact with each other and my WH gave over his password to his e-mail account. I made him go into his e-mail with me standing there and lo and behold there was an e-mail from her. She was replying to one he had sent her about their night at the hotel. So they were busted.

He promised me he wouldn't see her again and I was allowed to access his e-mail at any time. They kept in touch for quite a long time. This was very upsetting to me as it wasn't allowing me to heal and we weren't recovering. I was just suffering.

October-2001 While my husband was on his overnight he got an e-mail from the other woman that I read and she wondered if he still did overnights on Tuesdays. I freaked and replied to it as him and said no more overnights. Then I called him and told him about it and how upset I was. I told him that he had to completely end things with her or I was going to divorce him because I was tired of feeling tortured by their continued contact. That seemed to really light a fire under his [censored] because that week he wrote her a no contact letter and allowed me to read it and send it off to her. After that our relationship improved immensely.

We started our own aerial photography business and spent a lot of time together working on it. Things were fantastic and I loved him so much and felt loved by him in return.

July 2006- I noticed my husband starting to withdraw from us again and becoming depressed. His job requires a lot out of him during the summer months. He still wanted to spend lots of time with me and asked me to come along with him for work related things.. .like getting his truck ready to go. I just was having a hard time reaching him though. The crazy thing he did though was trade in his beloved sports car for the car I have always wanted. He was so happy to do this for me and I felt very loved by him still.

September 15, 2006- WH went shopping at Target in the next town over and ran into the ow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

September 17, 2006- Our house is struck by lightning and starts on fire in the attic. Not much fire damage but lots of water damage to the room where he keeps all his photography equipment and our bedroom.

He ended up losing his office and we lost our bedroom and had to sleep in the living room. He couldn't handle it as he wasn't getting any sleep.

September 24, 2006- We celebrated our 18th wedding anniversary. We went out to eat and barely said anything to each other. Things were clearly not right.

September 25 to October 6, 2006- WH starts acting really bizzarre and when I started questioning him he did the typical WH things. Wondered if I had some sort of Jedi Force thing going on because I could sense a disturbance in the force.

On the 4th of October he admitted to me that while he worked for the cable company he had two more affairs. They didn't mean anything but he thought about "THE OW" everyday and missed her... of course I didn't know he had run into her again. He also purchased a cell phone which was something he said he would never own.

On the 5th of October he told me he needed to talk to me about something but he knew I had to go to work at 5pm that night so he figured he should wait until the next day. I knew that was a really bad sign.

The next day came and he avoided me all day. I finally had to go find him in the garage and make him talk to me. He finally admitted that he ran into her and that all his old feelings for her came back and that he just couldn't live without her. He said he didn't know what to do. I told him I couldn't make those decisions for him. He was mad at me for throwing it back at him to decide. I told him he had to do what he had to do. He asked me if he could just see her one day a week. I said that wasn't fair to me and that no way in ****** would that happen. So, he decided he was leaving and going to move in with her. That night he went and spent it with her. He left me to explain to our 14 and almost 16 year old son that he was leaving us. They were devastated.

October 7, 2006- He came with a trailer and loaded up his things and officially moved back in with her. He did this while his kids were home and while they had friends over. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Currently he still comes to visit me every Monday, Thursday and Friday. He knows those are the days I am home. I know he can't stay faithful to the OW as we have had some indiscretions of our own. I know that is so wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

At first I was devastated that he left. Then I thought about it and let him know that if that was what made him happy then more power to him. I also had information for him about divorce and how I would like to handle it. He told me he wasn't ready for that. This was the day he officially moved out. It has now been almost 4 months since he has left and he still hasn't brought up the D word and I sure don't either.

He is fully supporting us... he still has his paychecks directly deposited into our joint checking account and then I transfer it over to my personal account. I give him maybe $150 a month. We can't spare that much.

Now I am not so sure I want to end this. I know I must be messed up to even think I want to have another chance with him. I know we didn't do our last attempt at recovery right at all. I know this is all vague but it's such a long messed up story. I used to post here as woozy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Lost the password for that account.

Anyway, I feel like he must still care if he still comes over when he knows I am here. Yesterday I was working but stopped by the house quick to put some salt on my sidewalks and he was inside. I hurried to get them salted and then was going back to my car to leave so I wouldn't have to see him... he came outside and asked me what I was doing and said he thought I would come inside to say hi.... I told him I thought I had bothered him enough already for the day as we had a long series of text messages already... started by him. He looked kind of sad that I wasn't going to come in and say hi to him.

When he was over on Monday to go over finances he talked about things he wanted to do with our business. Then he was going to leave and already on the porch and I brought something up to him and he came back in the house to talk some more.

I am so completely and utterly confused by him.

I have been following Lil Sis's thread very closely and feel her pain so well. She is doing awesome though by the way! I think I could just use some great support and encouragement or a kick in the pants. I don't know which. Anyway... feel free to ask questions...

As for the OW.. she is 10 years older than me. Has two grown children and four grandkids. She has been married twice... broken up two marriages and has cheated on both her spouses and not to mention her boyfriends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I don't know what my WH sees in her. I work with a lady who says she knows her and she has nothing good to say about her. She says she's a nasty, skanky "ho". She is tall and super skinny but not attractive. I've seen her... although WH doesn't know I've seen her. My manager has seen her and anyone that has seen her says she's not attractive. One of the guys that used to work with my WH and the OW asked my WH what he was thinking after he met me... he said,"What were you thinking? Your wife is CUTE!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> God help me. I don't know what to do.

Sorry this turned into a long post. I tried to make it brief.

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Wow... that did get really long. Sorry... I just wanted to add that WH and I had a really great relationship prior to him meeting the OW. He told me after they had sex for the first time she said she couldn't believe he actually had sex with her. She could believe she did it but couldn't believe he did. I view her as a predator given her history and my husband as weak and naive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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woozy,


Quote
as we have had some indiscretions of our own. I know that is so wrong.


Please explain


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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Woozy,

You have been here a while and know the ropes, right? Where do you think you are in the stream of time? Where do you want to be?

Hugz,
L.

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the problem with this is what this is teaching and saying to your children about

relationships
commitment
fidelity
and
honesty....

parents need to be role models....

your husband says to them that his needs and feeling for years and years are more important than him...

the other problem is that this has and is becoming the NORM for you....

you are accepting unaccpetable actions and behaviors...

built on falseness and lies...

your husband has no clue what love is...
he only knows how to use people...

the ow
you
all the children invovled..

there is no nobility in this man....

IS this what you want to teach your children...

is it...
ARK

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woozy, have you seen a counselor to figure out why you choose to live like this? I don't see the problem as his affair, but of your decision to live like this. You told him at one point in all this:

Quote
"October-2001 I told him that he had to completely end things with her or I was going to divorce him because I was tired of feeling tortured by their continued contact."

Why has this not happened?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote
woozy,


Quote
as we have had some indiscretions of our own. I know that is so wrong.


Please explain

Since he has left he has cheated on her with me... but I'm his wife so I don't consider it cheating. I know that this is just wrong though on so many levels. I know right now he's being a major cake eater and I am enabling his horrible behavior.

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Quote
Since he has left he has cheated on her with me... but I'm his wife so I don't consider it cheating.

You are HIS wife and him having SF with you should not be considered cheating. Cheating is what HE is doing to YOU.

It sounds like your boudaries need to be make very clear to him as he is obvouisly cake eating right now.

Two additional affairs outside of OW in 5 years and now he is back with her. You don't deserve to be treated so poorly and are worthy of respect and kindness.

From the outside looking in, a D doesn't look so bad in this situation.


Married 10 years, Legally Seperated Aug 2,2006
1 year of Plan A followed by 1 year of Plan B...
...now stepping towards recovery?????
BH 37(me), WW 35, DB 7 & DD 5
My Story
My struggle with an EA
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if you consider yourself his wife...

does your marriage meet your definition of marriage...

woozy...the questions may sound tough..

but Lordy girl...you are living in situation that is so very very disrespectful..
to YOU
and
the
OW....

your "husband orchestrates his disrespect to you...

good enough to sleep with..
NOT
good enough to man up to you and the all the children involved....

come on woozy do some hard work here..
or else..
picture things the same ..

in a month
in three months
this whole approacing summer
year
after
year...

ARK

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Quote
Woozy,

You have been here a while and know the ropes, right? Where do you think you are in the stream of time? Where do you want to be?

Hugz,
L.

Yes Orchid, I have been here since 1999. Unfortunately though I didn't read up as much as I should have on all the wonderful information that is offered here. I have been doing that now for the last couple of weeks.

As for the time??? I have been trying to do my plan A thing and there are many reasons why I just want to continue with that which I will explain later. We are going on 4 months now of being apart.

I do know it would be in my best interest to go to plan B but the problem is that we operate a business together and we need to continue running the business in order to stay afloat financially. Also, I am trying to get along just to make sure he keeps his paychecks deposited into our joint account. He is being very generous as far as the money goes. I stated that previously. He's giving us all the money and we give him what we can spare. Mainly his girlfriend is supporting him right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I am afraid that if I go to plan B he will cut us off and then I will be forced to go after him for child support and spousal support and hire lawyers.... I can't afford lawyers. We can't afford a divorce. I do know that if we have to live off child support and spousal support that will not be enough. Basically we need every penny of his paycheck to get by. I do work full-time as well but I can't possibly make enough money on my own to support our boys and myself. I suppose this seems like an excuse to avoid plan B. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I do know that I love him with all my heart and I do take my wedding vows seriously. I do feel that he is mental and I do know that depression and mental illness runs in his family. I also realize that I can't help him in this department. He needs to and has to want to get help for himself. He refuses to get counseling at this time. I mainly have been being a "friend" to him as his own family is very upset with him for putting our boys and me through this again. Therefore they haven't been supporting him in his decision at all. I'm not supporting his choices either but I can't turn my back on him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I guess what I would like more than anything is for my husband to wake up and realize what an incredible jerk he has been and get help for himself. That more than anything would mean the world to me... him getting help for himself. Then maybe... we could have a chance at working on our marriage. I suppose more than anything though... just him getting help for himself would be the best thing that could happen for him and our boys.

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I know this whole thing is very screwed up. The problem is this... I have known my husband since I was 13 years old. We have dated since I was 16 and married when I was 19. We did have a great marriage until he went to work and met this other woman. He would come home and tell me the things she talked to him about and I told him the things she had been saying were inappropriate. She was talking to him about all the kinky sex she has had in her life. The place where they worked together is pretty corrupt as several people there were guilty of having affairs so I feel like my husband was corrupted. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm trying hard to catch up here Ark... so forgive me.

As for our boys.... they know what their father is doing is very very wrong. They are not here when he comes to see me. The sad thing is he sees me more than he does his own boys. GRRRRRRRR!

Also... the boys refuse to meet the other woman. They have no desire to and do not care for anyone who would knowingly carry on a relationship with a married man. My boys definitely have morals and this whole thing has definitely taken a major toll on their relationship with their father. I have also made it perfectly clear that I do love their father but what he is doing is VERY VERY WRONG! I don't think it hurts for them to know I love him. I also want them to understand this is not acceptable behavior and they definitely understand that.

They have awesome support from my husband's family. His brother is a wonderful role model for them and has been there for them through this. They also know that their dad's family does not condone this behavior at all. I have talked with the boys at great length about how this behavior is wrong and that when they get married it is for life and that they can't ever allow themselves to be put in a situation where they would put their marriages at risk like this.

Believe me, they know their father is a poor role model but thankfully they have enough excellent role models to make up for him... my dad, their uncles, etc. I would never allow them to think this is acceptable.

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there is no motivation for him to get help...

he has a girlfriend who supports him...

he has a wife that supports him..

he's got it made....

affair actions are not a mental health issue...

they are clear cut choices...made day after day...

woozy describe to me the actions and attributes that make him lovable to you..

make a list....

ARK

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woozy, have you seen a counselor to figure out why you choose to live like this? I don't see the problem as his affair, but of your decision to live like this. You told him at one point in all this:

Quote
"October-2001 I told him that he had to completely end things with her or I was going to divorce him because I was tired of feeling tortured by their continued contact."

Why has this not happened?

When I told him he had to end things with her at that time he did. He wrote her a no contact letter and I know they did not see each other or have anymore contact after that time. He spent every spare moment he had with me. Things were fantastic and going very very well. We had almost 5 great years. As I said, he started getting depressed again over the summer and then he ran into her, then we had the fire and then it started all over again. I know he hadn't seen her in those 5 years because he was his old self again only much better. I could tell the day he ran into her that something happened to him. He totally reverted to the WH fogged out guy. He moved out three weeks after running in to her.

As for divorce... I told him if he wanted it he could file. He has made no effort. I haven't filed because right now I'm just trying to make sure the boys and I don't lose our home or the car. If we lose our home our only option would be low-income housing and low-income housing in this town is not pretty. I refuse to subject our kids to that.

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woozy make plans to move in with your parents
his parents
his brother
your bother
your sister...

find a family member that will take you all in...

ARK

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there is no motivation for him to get help...

he has a girlfriend who supports him...

he has a wife that supports him..

he's got it made....

affair actions are not a mental health issue...

they are clear cut choices...made day after day...

woozy describe to me the actions and attributes that make him lovable to you..

make a list....

ARK

You are right Ark... he has no real good qualities at this time. I just see negatives. The thing is that this isn't who he was when we met. I remember that person and that is why I'm having a hard time with this. He is not the person he was 9 years ago.... with the exception of the previous 5 years where my H was back... until he ran into the OW and at yet another low point in his life. He is a foolish man who doesn't appreciate what he had with his family. Mainly I have been trying to learn how to hate him but do you know how very hard it is to hate someone you have loved for so very long? I definitely agree, this whole thing is very messed up. I said I needed a kick in the butt, did I not?

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woozy make plans to move in with your parents
his parents
his brother
your bother
your sister...

find a family member that will take you all in...

ARK

This is absolutely not an option for me. We live in a different state and my boys are both in high school with many wonderful friends who are very supportive of them. I will not take them away from the friends they hold so very dear. That would be even more damaging to them.

I have also had both boys in for counseling to work through this. I am fighting like anything to hold on to the last things that are important to them... their friends, their neighbors who are like family to them, their home, their school and much much more. I refuse to let my husband's stupid choices affect their lives any more than they already have. I have told my WH that he will support us until the boys and I can support ourselves on our own.

My WH's own mother has already offered to take us all in. But that would require a move out of state and taking them away from everything they hold dear. I will not do that to them.

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woozy,

Unfortunately it appears YOU will change when the pain of staying the same overwhelms the pain of changing.

Best of luck


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
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I would like to say that I know I am not perfect but I do know that I never did anything to deserve this treatment from WH. My WH sent me a text message about a month after he left saying he hoped we all knew he still loved us. My younger son saw it and I said to him that this is why I don't understand his father. If he "loves" us why would he be doing this and I said I didn't think I was that bad to live with... my son said, "Mom, it's not you, it's him." He is so very right... it is him. I shared this with WH's family and they said, "Oh, L, we all know it's him and not you." I am really trying to learn to let go.

Also... today is the first Thursday since he left that he did not come over. I am ok about it too. I am actually relieved. That is why I know I need to do plan B.... for my sanity. I know that when he comes over three days out of the week that is what messes me up. I was incredibly strong in the beginning but then he keeps coming around and confusing me.

Please do not act as though I am stupid either... I am just having a war between my head and my heart. My head knows without a doubt that this is all wrong wrong wrong but unfortunately my heart is messing me up.

Also... no one knows the kind of relationship we had prior to his affair. He was the most kind and generous loving man. He took such good care of me and loved me with all his heart. It took going to work in a factory and being surrounded by negative influences on a daily basis to destroy all that. I also said he is weak and naive'. A stronger man would have not succumbed to that. I know of stronger men who worked there and were subjected to the same things he was and they left and found new jobs.

I do know that she will break his heart too. It's what she does. She has never been able to stay in a relationship for very long. She sure can't stay faithful. He obviously can't either.

As for the other two flings... I did not know about those until just before he left. Those happened prior to the no contact letter he sent the OW. He was still a fogged out mess when he had those flings. I am not condoning it at all... but I'm just saying he was still messed up when they happened. He did come out of it and was faithful to me for five years and I do know because I do totally have that Jedi Force thing going on. I was totally able to tell something happened when he ran into her again. He became the fogged out WH again. It was like a switch flipped in him.

As for the plan b... I need to know that the boys and I will still be taken care of financially until we are able to take care of ourselves. I do work full-time and have some other plans to make additional money. It just takes time. Mainly I just want to keep our home until the boys leave home. I think we owe them that. The youngest is in 9th grade. So... just 3 1/2 years more is all I ask. Then I can go and live in an apartment or find something cheaper.

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woozy..

You need serious serious boundaries to protect you..

you live in a fear driven world..

fear that if you displease him he will cut you off financially.....

it's a legitimate fear...but you are doing too much damage to yourself...

DO NOT see him alone...

SEE HIM only with the children...and then make it ALLLL about the children...

he wants to come over...
only when the kids are present..
and if infact...you go out....leave him with the kids...

or make yourself scarce and busy in the middle of something so that all time is with the children...

quit this insane protecting him from them and the reality of his actions...

DO NOT see him anymore except when chidlren are present...

can you start with that one small (HUGE) step..

can you stake that claim here and now..
from now on all contact is with children present ONLY

ARK

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Ark,

In the beginning I told WH that he was more than welcome to visit the boys while I was at work. I work three nights out of the week from 5pm until 1am. I also work Tuesdays and Wednesdays during the days until at least 6pm. I told him he was welcome to come and spend time with them after they get home from school.

He knows his children are disgusted with him for what he's doing so unfortunately he's avoiding them. He can't face them. Thankfully he came and spent a few hours with them yesterday while I was at work. As I said before, he didn't come over today for the first time since he left. I am relieved by that to be perfectly honest. Our oldest son is avoiding him and can hardly stand to look at him. He hates that he comes here and acts like nothing is wrong. That is what my WH is having a hard time dealing with... but he brought that upon himself.

I unfortunately have mixed emotions about this whole mess but I do think that is to be expected as I have been married to the man for 18 years and have known him for 25 years. That is more than half my life. I don't expect this to be a cake walk for me and I don't expect to get over him just like that. That would be insane to think that.

I do know I need boundaries and it's taking me some time to come to that realization. In fact I have been sitting here working on a letter to explain to him why he needs to stop coming over while I am home alone. I can't say that I fear he'll cut us off financially... I'm not really sure what to expect. He has been super good about helping out financially. More than I can say for most men in this sort of crappy situation. For 4 months now he has not held one paycheck from us. That is the only thing he has done right. I can't say for sure that he'd stop if I told him we have to stop having contact. Maybe that is my excuse for continuing contact. You know what I mean? A large part of me realizes that yes... I need to stop having contact with him but then there is that part of me who misses the guy he was who was a good man. I don't expect you to understand that.

I have already told him that I could go out and get another full-time job and work 2 full-time jobs but then are kids wouldn't have any parent around for them so that is not an option for me. My hours are already screwy enough as it is. He understands that. I also told him we got ourselves into this financial hole and we need to work together to get out of it... via the business. This is what's holding me back from the no contact thing as well. He and I worked together to start this business 5 years ago and it has been a joint effort and there is lots of money to be made from it. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about having no contact when we still have to work together on this and it is the best way for us to get out of debt.

We could sell our home but we have refinanced it so many times in order to start our business that if we did sell it we would still have house payments to make plus rent payments. So that is really not an option.

I am not scared of my husband by any means... more than anything I pity him. I pity the fact that he allowed himself to get into such a stupid and horrible situation.

Anyway... I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about these things.

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