I just want to add that the first thing is that yes... he can no longer come over when I am the only one home. That makes perfect sense. Also.. I am not protecting him from the kids. He knows they are upset with him. I have made that perfectly clear to him. The boys are the ones who have been avoiding him. I gave them his cell phone number and they know they can call him anytime they want to. They choose not to. My WH is the adult here... he needs to own up to what he's done and understand why his boys feel the way they do. My boys are more mature than he is. I can safely say I have not been protecting him from the boys.

woozy..

with all due respect everytime you see him without the kids present..

you condone his avoidance of the children..

it feeds his sick junky mind that things between you and him are kind of OK.....

forget the letter
that's mumbo jumbo blather...

speak with your actions...

no more home alone with him..
period
don't tell him
just do it..

why in God's name inform him of any of your actions when he is in a active affair...

you owe nor does he deserve accountability from you...

think how good it feeds his ablility to cake eat...

he does as he pleases...
and you inform him of all your actions and intents...
while he doesn't have to tell you squat...

heaven in a cake eaters eyes....

here's the BS fog that you are and words that scare me ...

you say...

More than I can say for most men in this sort of crappy situation.


that's YOUR junkie mind...rationalizing his actions...

he has ABANDONED his sons...BUT you say...he does send the money...
more than MOSTA men....

ugghh....

woozey...

you gotta go slow on this...
black and white
piece by piece..

you are so deeply emeshed in the abnormal...you are equal to the abused spouse who stays for abuse because it is all that they know....

start with concrete things...

make lists....

things that make a good marriage

qualities that attract you in a man

definition of marriage...

write your lists...
study them...
go over them..
leave them be then go back over them....

imagine if your children were to find out you were still intimate with him..
imagine their horror and their fear that you choose him over them...

I'm not saying that is what you are doing...but see it from your childrens point of view...
from any adolescent

grossed out by the thought of their parents together on a good day...ie marriage..

let alone the thought of you with him when he doesn't see them much or live with them...
and abandons them...

don't lie to your children

stop all conversations with him except those that invovle the children...

what is the plan to have you bought out of the company..or what is the amount of work you would do and get paid for if he had to hire someone to do it...

ARK

Ark... just so you know... I'm not ignoring this... I have to go to work in 2 minutes... I'll be home after midnight and reply.

Ark... I do not invite WH over. He just comes over after he is done working. I was planning on writing him a letter to tell him not to come over when the boys aren't home yet then you tell me not to write him a letter. So how is he to know I don't want him coming over when I'm home alone? I would rather write it in a letter and send it to him rather than say it to him. I'm supposed to avoid him remember?

If he comes over unannounced while I am home alone I'm NOT going to get into my car and leave. This is my home which HE chose to leave. I would rather send a letter to let him know I don't want him coming over as opposed to having him come to the door and me telling him he can't come in. I obviously don't do so good when I see him face to face. I have three days during the week when the boys aren't home to get all sorts of things done around the house and I'm not going to keep leaving just to avoid him.

I am certainly not being accountable to him. I wasn't planning on telling him what I'm doing... I was just planning on telling him not to come over when I'm home alone. How am I supposed to get him to quit that if I don't tell him what I want him to do? He's not a mind reader that's for darned sure. One of the things I have enjoyed the most since he has been gone is my FREEDOM!

I already admitted this whole thing is very screwed up and I am looking for advice to get this mess cleared up. You have given me plenty of that.

You asked me to name one admiral quality about my husband and the one thing I can think of off the top of my head is that he is still fully supporting us financially but then you slam that and tell me I have a junkie mind. WTF? I am not rationalizing his actions. I know what he's doing is wrong but at least he's still supporting us and not forcing us out of our home and letting my kids starve. He's certainly an A$$ for what he has done to them but he'd be even more of an A$$ if he completely cut them off financially.

I am very aware he has abandoned his sons. I've had this conversation with WH ad nauseum. He has asked me why they don't call him. I have told him they are angry with him for what he has done to them. He in return makes no attempt to call them. I have told him he knows how to use a phone and that it goes both ways. As I stated before the boys know his phone number but they have no desire to reach out to him at this time. This is something they have discussed with their psychologist. I have asked WH to talk to them and ask them why they are avoiding him but guess what... he's avoiding them! He is a major conflict avoider and he knows what he's doing is wrong and he can't face his kids and talk to them about how wrong he is because he knows they will not tell him what he wants to hear. I honestly believe he thought they wouldn't care if he went off and did this but my boys do have morals and do believe in respecting people. Right now they don't have much repspect for their father and they believe him to be a hypocrite.

Believe me, I would love nothing more than for them to have a close relationship with their father but I am not going to send them off to affair land to spend time with their dad and his girlfriend. They don't want to meet her and they don't approve of this lifestyle. They do not accept it and they shouldn't have to. Thank God they are smarter than me!

We operate an aerial photography business. The investment was approximately $20,000. We use a remote control helicopter with a camera mount attached to take the pictures. WH husband flies the heli and I take the pictures. We use a downlink so that I am able to see what I'm taking pictures of on a small tv screen. At any rate, if he were to buy me out I would get $10,000. That wouldn't dig me out of the hole we're in. The money is to be made in the work we will be doing.... such as taking progress photos for construction companies and that sort of thing. Last year was a good year for the business and this year promises to be even better. I would be screwed if I took $10,000.

Ark... why do you think I'm coming here to seek advice? I don't want to live like this the rest of my life. As I said before though.. I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to stop loving him. I have known him for 25 years and I have known more good from him than this bad stuff, so yes, that's clouding my judgement. I would also have to wonder what was wrong with me if I was able to get over him just like that. I also stated that the previous five years were great and yes we had a lull over the summer and then wham... this. I was not expecting this and feel like the rug was pulled out from underneath me. I am struggling to get up to speed here. If I really wanted to keep doing the same thing over and over I wouldn't have come here seeking advice.

woozy..

I am not trying to slam you at all...

You have your thoughts as layered around this as any does who is dealing with such an un-ideal situation...

black and white it is my opinion that every time you engage with your husband without the children...

and especially every time you are intimate with him...

that it sends him a very mixed message...

that no matter how much your words verbalize disdain and pain over his actions for the children..

men's sexual act is their connection to others...it is their way of gaining and having connection and all those other feel good...

so when you are intimate with him...it is your actions that speak loudest....
and all those rational things you have told him about this actions and their impact go out the window and he will believe all is well between you and him..

and that you accept all his actions..
otherwise you wouldnt' sleep with him...

that is not an attack...

it is actions speaking louder than words...

woozy write your letter...but it is my experience letters other than plan B one...become fodder for many things..

1. Ws share it with the OP and they get lots of mileage villifying the BS

2. WS use the letter stating decrease the contact to increase the contact by powertstuggling and argueing the stuff in the letter....

3. WS ingnore the letter so the BS spends all this time saying..read the letter did you read the letter...I told you in the letter...

down to the lowest denominator at times...

that's why I say just don't be available...
don't be home
be busy and on your way out...
plan something...

how about tell the OW how much time he is spending over there...


I guess my question is what is your goal here
and what is your plan to get there...

and if you think I am slamming just say so and I will gladly shut up....
and if you choose to live today like you did yesterday..that is your choice as well....

and also remember that putting of making a decision...is a decision...

but please be clear about hte absolute mixed things you are saying with your actions vs your words...

ARK

these type of responses...make no sense..

woozy ..love is not just a feeling..

love is ACTION
his actions are not loving....

your actions are a mixed message of love and disdain...(as they should be)

you keep saying you love who he was..
but doing that just keeps you stuck from dealing with who he is
TODAY

I am not for one second telling you to get over or move or find someone else..

I am telling you to stop your participation in this warped marriage...

and quit living captive to your fears.....

he uses people...
to fill his needs....
right now that's what he does....

your love enables him to continue on this path of cake-eating and abuse...

you want to knee jerk in to this people telling you to get over him and move on..
which is NOT what this site is about at all and if you have been here as long as you say then you know that...

this is about finding your sanity in insane situations
and finding your peace..

if you are at peace with the way things are today..then carry on..

if not YOU YOU YOU must iniate changes..

otherwise nothing will change...

love isn't enough ..never has been never will be..

if love was enough..then all the times the WS claims to "love" the OP...
then heck ...we should bless that relationship every time...and wish them well on their merry loving way...

right??

ARK

Ark... My letter was going to be something very simple... along the lines of...

WH,

You need to stop coming over when you know I am home alone. Obviously we have issues with keeping our hands off each other and it is very inappropriate and just wrong considering the circumstances at this time. I do not want to imply in anyway that I think the way you have chosen to live your life is acceptable. It certainly is not and by having sex with you while you choose to live with another woman is allowing you to think it is acceptable.

I would love more than anything for you to work on building your relationship with the boys. You know my hours at work and you are free to come and visit them while I am away. They still have no desire to meet OW at this time. They know the way you have chosen to live your life is not acceptable and they don't want to be subjected to your affair life or OW.

BS

Ok... I really don't think he's going to share that with OW as he doesn't want her to know he's been messing around with me. At least I would assume he doesn't want her to know. I don't have OW's phone number and I don't think WH is going to give it to me so I can call her up and tell her just how much time he's been spending with me while she's at work.

As for my goal... accckkkk.. I am leary to even go there. I'll get slammed some more. I would love more than anything to have my real H snap back into the Alien H and realize he is out of control and ruining the lives of many people. Some of us innocent... some us not.

I would love more than anything for him to seek help for himself. He does have issues that he has never dealt with that he would benefit greatly from talking to a professional about. His family and my family definitely feel he has some mental health issues.. not just because of the affair. He doesn't want to deal with his past because he says it is too painful to go there and he'd rather just stuff all those bad memories down which isn't healthy. He's been carrying this baggage around since he was 9 years old. It's eating him up inside and causing him to be unhappy and right now he thinks OW is the answer to that. I think she is a temporary fix but eventually he's going to start having all the same problems again. His family definitely knows that.

I would love a chance for us to recover our marriage properly. I would love to make it better and much much stronger than it ever was before but in order to do that he needs to get right with himself. Then we can consider working on our marital issues.

I do love him but I don't like this person he has become. I do see glimpses of the original H there. The original H was very kind, loving, affectionate, generous, hard-working, devoted, caring, sweet and so much more. I hate what he has succumbed to. Believe me, I have a list of all the negatives typed up... even before you told me to make lists. I have all sorts of lists about this mess.

I am mourning my marriage here big time. I think that is a very natural thing to do given the circumstances. I am mourning what we could have had. I took my marriage vows seriously and have always said if anything ever happened to my husband I would just remain single the rest of my life. Of course I'm only 37 and the rest of my life is suddenly looking like a long time. I for sure told the boys that I wouldn't date at all while they are still home. I definitely have no desire and I wouldn't anyway at this time as I am still "married". I just want them to be my focus which they are and they love me and always tell me I'm a good mom and they definitely appreciate the fact that I am always there for them. I love them so much and think they are awesome! For teens they are really good kids.

I totally realize I have been sending him very mixed signals. Like I said, I came here for advice on how to stop this madness because I'm obviously weak as well.

Time for more coffee... it was a late night last night.

Ok.. just want to update... No more sex at all since last posts here. When WH comes over I give him updates on the boys or other important things such as financial matters or home matters.. such as backed up sewer. He came Tuesday while I was at work and fixed it and it was a real poopy job which was quite fitting for him to have to do. After I update him on important matters I go sit at my computer or go wash dishes or do some other housework and ignore him. This has been very effective. As soon as I start ignoring him he leaves.

I have plans to be gone tomorrow before he gets here. I know he's planning on coming to collect a little money for gas and such. Remember... he's giving the boys and me all the money. I will leave him $30 on the table but be gone. I'm not telling him where I am. As far as he knows I'll be here tomorrow. From now on I will work at making myself very very scarce.

I had a really good talk with my oldest son last night. He's 16 and very bright and quite a thinker. We talked a lot about our current situation. He completely disapproves of his father's actions. We discussed he and his brother meeting the OW. He says he absolutely will not meet her as he does not condone their relationship at all. He wishes his dad was more like his brother, Uncle G. Uncle G. is a great dad and super husband. Both boys feel much closer to their uncle than their dad. Uncle G. is an excellent role model for them.

He would like to have a better relationship with his dad. He can see how his dad struggles to have any kind of conversation with them. He is not a great communicator. He's trying to figure out how to reach him which is something he will talk to his psychologist about on his next visit. Now if we could just get his dad in to help him learn how to have a better relationship with his boys that would be great.

Regardless of what you decide to do do not operate from a position of fear.

I am not afraid of him... what I am afraid of is losing our home. That is really the only thing I fear. Who would not fear losing their home? Who wouldn't fear having to go live in a rundown apartment building after owning their own home for over 12 years? I am simply not afraid of him. I hate it that is what everyone thinks. I think he's almost afraid of me. He knows I have the support of all the family.. that includes his very own family. His very own mother is having nothing to do with him. She called me at Christmas to invite the boys and me. She never called him. He's getting a big old dose of reality there. His brother called him at Thanksgiving and told him he didn't know what his plans were but he and his wife would be inviting the boys and me to their home to celebrate it with them.

The only thing I am truly concerned about is finances and WH has already agreed to help us out until we are able to stand on our own... at which time he will still pay child support and you can bet I will be going for spousal support as well.

I am also concerned about the fact that he is destroying his relationship with his children. Unfortunately I can't force him to have a relationship with them. This is something he needs to work on. As I said before, I told him he is more than welcome to come and spend time with them while I am at work. He can come get them anytime he wants and do stuff with them. He just needs to get his head out of his rear and make that choice.