WHy has this tread gotten so off course? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

JL

This is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of why I continue to GROW SPIRITUALLY from ark...

Another woman willing to acknowledge her ability to get "CAUGHT UP"...What RELIGION is that??? WOMANISM????

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

shut up MIMI...

there's sure to be a burning round here with them words...

MelodyLane starts a thread to thank FH. And it turns into this? Again?

This is shameful ...

This is why.

These threads make me feel sick to my stomach. They actually make me feel like crying. I hate them.

I hate to see my friends upset, to the point of having to defend themselves and their beliefs.

I hate it. It is wrong.

It's gut wrenching.

I have to say I am Christian but not Fundalmentalist Christian. We used to just say we were Protestant. We never said "I am a Christian" when I was growning up.

We respected other church's, and other religions. It was our belief that all were good.

The Catholic Church has such beauty, such tradition, such beautiful weddings. We could read about that, and I wanted to but knew it would end up this way.

We have both Catholic and Protestant, and Athiest, and Wicca in my family...and never would we disrespect the others as is done on this board.

Fighting over God. Hurting one another. It's sickening.

You know, as a FWW, I saw a lot of advice given that was intended to be corrective and helpful and loving, as "FWW-bashing". In other words, it was just my perception of things because I didn't like what I was hearing.

Are you SURE that was ever FH's intent? To bash Catholics?

Didn't someone's Sig line once say something like "Funny how the truth can be seen as bashing?" I know that isn't exactly the right word....but I remember seeing it many times.

A very good question JL.

And btw way, I just want to thank you again for all of the assistance you offered to me when I first arrived here.

Eternally grateful for that selfless provision of your time and thoughts.

God bless.

sigh.... The last thing I wanted on this thread was another religious debate. The goal was to say goodbye to ForeverHers and to implore him to stay. Why do we have to bring a tired old, rehashed debate over here? Can't we just say goodbye and leave it at that?

DAMN IT...

I am quoting you directly. It is not my opinion, it is what you have clearly stated.

For heaven's sake, you did it again almost immediately -
Again, this is nothing more than your opinion, and you are attempting to set yourself up as the only chosen voice of God.

You are doing, in other words, exactly what you object to when the Roman Catholic church teaches its interpretation of Scripture.
A third instance of well-poisoning. You cannot accept that someone might disagree with your personal opinion, not because they are in sin, but because they find your interpretations unpersuasive.

We are, obviously. It's called "free will". We have the power to reject God. If we didn't, we would not be children, we would be puppets.
Which reduces the entire proposition to a meaningless tautology. "Anyone who is saved, is saved. If they aren't saved, they never were." It's called the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Do you know if you are saved? How can you be sure? What if you fall away? Then you never were!
So all that stuff you posted earlier about how you did not charge into the thread and begin Catholic-bashing was wrong?

Imagine that.


Regards,
rs0522

I have to scratch my head at it too! I am just relaying what I heard... and hear on a regular basis. I have some success when I explain to them about Christ and other times not. It is baffling to me too.
So you are saying you don't follow me... but as I said.. I really don't understand their thinking any more than you do.
Yeah.. and from what I remember of the wine and wafer.. it would certainly NOT be a reason to go to Church! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I think this thread would be a more appropriate place to debate religion on....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=1&fpart=5

~ Marsh

Wow, if you really heard Catholics say they are not Christians, I am really perplexed. What in the heck do they think they ARE then?

Maybe they are confusing the term "Christians" with "Protestants" ~ thinking those terms are one in the same...and not wanting to be confused for a Protestant?

Just thinking out loud here...

Sorry Mel, didn't mean to TJ. You did a very kind thing in starting this thread to say goodbye to FH.

I will join you ~ goodbye, FH, you will be missed. You have helped many people around here, and that is a noble thing. I believe you have a good heart, a heart for God. I really do.

Weaver, I agree with your concluding sentence in the quotation and is why I think leaving is the "best course" right now.

As for the other part of the quotation, I also agree that we don't have to "disrespect" someone because of what they believe.

But here is the difficulty, we have to decide how to "love the sinner and hate the sin." That seems to be the essence of what you are saying, and it's true with respect to attempts to end affairs and recover from adultery too.

Why do you suppose the writer of Hebrews was so exasperated with believers who were "stuck" on milk and not growing and eating solid food? Why does John write of his Revelation to the seven churches? Could there be some "room" for loving confrontation or would it be more loving to let people "do their own thing" and say nothing?

A tough choice always.

It gets even tougher when family or people you know and care about are involved. If a believer knows that they are saved by the grace of God and that unless someone accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, should they not at least attempt when the opportunity presents itself, to at least discuss the reasons for belief in God and His plan for our salvation? Another tough choice to be sure, but when eternity is the "stake" would it not make sense to at least give them the reasons why you believe God is right?

To do so with humility is what we should all do as believers. And it is quite likely that I've allowed on occasions my emotions to control my choice of words, for which I try to repent and apologize. That is regrettable and leads to your second point in the quotation, and is why I am removing myself from that....because it does take two to have an argument and discussion is lost when the argument escalates into anger and angry words.

Thanks for your timely and pertinent post.

foreverhers..

now that I think about this...

this whole thing...

why don't YOU stay....

I can go elsewhere..

ark^^

This is where we differ FH. I believe that all of us will find our way back to God. I believe that no one will get to heaven until we all get to heaven. We are that connected. I will never be in heaven while my brother is in ******, and neither will you be. It's impossible and it is the love that is God which abides in each and every one of us that makes it so.

I believe it is inevitable.

You mention anger...the threads ending up in anger.

I know for instance that it hurts you when you get into it with another poster, as you did with 2long. I know this hurts you. I could knock the ****** out of you, but I know you do that enough to yourself.

You have such value when you help people with their marriages...but you cause such hurt when it goes off into religion, both to yourself as well as to others.

You don't need to do this, but it is your belief that you do.

You are valued here as much as detested, that is for sure. It's amazing really. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you leave, you will break my heart Ark.

This is nuts.

ARK:

NOW..I'M TELLING YOU TO SHUT UP!!!

rs0522 - that I may lack "persuasiveness" has never been the issue. While it may be true, it is God who works in the hearts and minds of people, not me.




rs, this where you are completely wrong. And that IS my opinion. I do not, nor ever have, "set myself up as the only chosen voice of God."

I have repeatedly stated that we all have opinions and are entitled to hold to any opinion that we want, whether or not anyone else agrees with our opinion.

When it come to the fundamental beliefs of Scripture, however, the Bible, not my opinion is the source. When there are differing "opinions" about the Scripture they should be discussed with the Bible itself as the mediator and "judge" of which opinion carries more "weight" and which opinion is more in line with God's Word, and not merely the opinion of any one individual or group.




And this is an issue that I understand because I had to face this issue and really explore this one for myself. Why? Because this issue of Free Will is at the heart of the differences. It is appealing to humans to put their trust and faith in their Free Will, but when speaking of Free Will in the context of our ability to choose God before God has chosen us, you enter the arena of Original Sin and the effect that it had on our Free Will ability to even choose God.

rs, in my younger days I thought that I had reason to be "prideful" because I had "chosen God." In other words, I merited God's Justification because of what I did. The reality is quite different, and because our pride in our Free Will is so great, it is not easy to understand that God is the one who first changes our nature (sinful and totally opposed to God) to one that allows us to assent to His choice of us as one of His elect. I have NOTHING to boast about because God first chose me.

Like so many things, God does not always ask us to do or believe what seems to be the "easy" things, but He also asks us to believe and do the seemingly "hard" things. Why? Because He, not us, IS God.

So, without arguing, the issue that I would put before you is this, did the Fall totally corrupt man or only partially corrupt man? You do not need to respond, but you might want to take some personal time to explore that question for yourself.

OK My 2c.

I identify with ForeverHers as a Christian on these boards. I would describe myself as a fundamentalist Christian in that I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God in which he said what he meant and meant what he said.

I would agree with FH's position in almost every area except OSAS where I have a different BIBLICAL understanding FROM SCRIPTURE - not just my opinion. In fact there are MANY bible scholars who would take a different view. FH does seem to take the view that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Some issues are impossible to be so dogmatic about. In any case, if we run the race and endure to the end the point is moot.

I have sturggled with discussions on these boards about creation and evolution. I would 100% with FH on these issues but for the life of me I only see them as fights with no winners and all they do is stir up arguement and disent. There is already enough pain on these boards. Such argurements achieve nothing. No one is going to be convinced by either side - no one on either side is even open minded bout that issue.

Interesting. In my church, there would be aproximately 80% ex-catholics and I would expect that would be the case for many of the Pentecostal churches today.

For my part, even though a Christian, I rarely shove that down peoples throats unless the person I am posting to is also a christian. I avoid religious arguements because they serve no purpose whatsoever.

I have focussed on MB and MB principles - that's the sign on the door after all.

When my marriage was ravaged by my wife having an affair, I didn't find MB for a while. I basically spent 2 weeks on my knees praying that God would bring her home to me. I pressed into God. He was/is faithful. My wife was driving "home" from work when she had an encounter with God and knew she had to come home.

So God brought her home but MB gave us the tools to re-build our marriage.

But I have appreciated FH being on these boards. You will be sorely missed. I do hope you return from time to time.

Time off is good. Do return when you feel up to it...