Hello,

I am new to this so I am not sure exactly what to say. My husband and I have been married for 2 years together for 7. I caught him with porn before we were married and then after I caught him online twice. He has always denied and never wanted to talk about it. He looks at other women when we go places and still denies it. There is nothing between us anymore. We never have sex and I just cannot let him in. I do not trust or respect him. We have two small children and I just don't know what to do?? We are in counseling but it is doing nothing. Any help?

You have to consider first why men look at porn at all. I'm going to guess that "artistic appreciation" has little to do with it, leaving the more likely conclusion of sexual fantasy.

Many men try to justify porn with things like, "well I wouldn't actually have sex with those women" or "it's just pictures, it doesn't mean anything" and so on. The key is that it does mean something to you and makes you feel hurt. In some small way, whether he realizes it or not, his enjoyment of porn is a form of sexual gratification (even if all he does is look) - something that you have exclusive right to in the marital relationship.

Without knowing much about your situation other than that you've been together for seven years and have two children, no one can guess what your relationship is like. Consider each of your basic needs (your most important are almost certainly different from his) and how each of you fulfills them (or fails to fulfill them).

Based on what little you have said, I get the impression that the most important thing he can do for you is show you some genuine affection and be open to listening to your take on viewing porn. It clearly makes you uncomfortable and makes you feel less appreciated as a woman.

You mention that you never have sex. Understand that, especially if he's looking at porn and other women, he's having sexual fantasies in place of his own unfulfilled needs. If I had to guess, I'd say admiration and sexual fulfillment are the two he is missing most.

Finding a way to mutually satisfy each others needs, especially because you want to, not because you feel "obligated" to, goes a long ways. Those are some starting points to consider.

If you don't already have a copy, I want to encourage you to find "His Needs, Her Needs" at a library or bookstore. This topic is touched on in this book and more importantly, Dr. Harley explores the root cause and offers sound advice for a solution.

Best wishes,

Rob

Thanks Rob. I appreciate your insight!!

good post Rob.
well said.

Welcome to MB, reoann. Wish it could have been under better circumstances.

Let me just chime in from a guy’s point of view. I hope that it will be helpful.

It is difficult for women to understand why guys are so fascinated by porn. But you have a very serious problem in your marriage. If you need to solve this problem, you first need to really understand what guys (or rather, your guy) see in these images, what it means to them and to you. Unfortunately for you and women everywhere, the fact is that guys just like to look at pictures of naked women. It is just something that guys like to do. Sorry. The question is what do we do about it.

Let me give you the good news first. Please know that the use of porn does not mean that he does not love you. It does not mean that he is dissatisfied with you sexually. It does not mean that he is dissatisfied with your looks or that he wants someone who looks “better”. It does not mean that he wants you to dress more provocatively, or do thing in bed differently. It does not mean that he wants to cheat on you or leave you. It does not mean that he is somehow a sexual deviant.

The bad news is that there is very little that you can do about this. The reason is that this is about him, not about you. Bob2000, has raised a number of issues, but please do not misread his post as meaning that by “putting out” instead of having no sex with him, will make him be drawn to porn any less. Do not try to compete sexually with porn. You wont win, because you are not in a race with porn. Making love to you and enjoying porn are in his mind two different things.

What you need to do about this is to communicate openly with him about it. If he views porn and it bothers you, then the two of you need to come up with some sort of a solution together. You can’t have the attitude that porn is simply unacceptable, nor can he have the attitude that he just has to be more careful in hiding it.

The real big problem that I see in your relationship is not his use of porn, but the fact that he hides it from you, and that he lies about it. In order for the two of you to have a healthy relationship, you need to be honest with each other. You need to be open to his explanations why he enjoys porn, he needs to be comfortable in telling you. You need to be able to discuss this or any other problem. What happens if there is a totally different problem (like money, or job, or parents); do the two of you discuss them, or do you keep the other partner in the dark?

If the two of you decide that he should not view porn (I am definitely NOT suggesting this), you need to realize how incredibly difficult it would be for him to stick with it. This is not “I promise not to do that anymore!” “OK… now, what do you want for dinner?” kind of promises. This is pretty much a life-altering experience for him. Don’t underestimate it. You need to talk about his progress, his cravings, etc. on daily or at least weekly basis. You cannot expect to talk about it once, and that’ll be it.

If he gives you the promise not to use porn, it needs to come from his heart, not simply a promise to placate you. He needs to be of such a character, that the next time he is able to enjoy porn, even if you could never find out about it, he should pass. If he gives his word, then he should not enjoy porn because he gave his word, not because he can’t get caught. What I am saying is that do NOT accept his promises until you are sure that he is that kind of a man.

AverageGuy makes some points that show how hard it is to explain or even understand exactly why so many people (men and, to a much lesser degree, women) enjoy looking at porn. Probably the thing I agree with most is not to interpret what I said as becoming a sex kitten and trying to compete with the porn as being the solution: that's the most disastrous path I can consider.

Looking more deeply into that post, AverageGuy has avoided putting a name on what he describes, and that name is "addiction". It's like my addiction to Caffeine; I know it's not the best thing for me, I can't rationally explain it, I just enjoy the stuff. But I tell you this: if it bothered my wife and interfered with our relationship, I ought be man enough to kick it out of my life.

Men enjoy looking at naked women? Okay, there are a lot of different types of porn out there: There's "Playboy" type porn, in which every picture is one and only one woman, by herself, and either mostly or completely nude. Some argue with some degree of success that this has "artistic" value. From there, porn goes into extremes that include graphic images of sexual activities (and beyond). There's animated porn and there's even porn that is text-only - stories of a sexual fantasy nature. Is one type of porn more acceptable than another?

The point is not that he enjoys looking at other women (naked or dressed), that he can't help himself and should just be allowed this one vice or whatever the case may be. The point is that he's engaging in an activity that goes against his wife’s interpretation of the marriage vows, specifically the requirement, “forsaking all others.”

The bottom line is this: He needs to understand that she's uncomfortable with the idea, it makes her feel bad as a woman, and she considers it marital infidelity. If it does nothing for him, then why do it? If it satisfies an urge or need, it clearly treads on the boundaries of marriage where the wife has the exclusive right to fulfill that need.

It IS an addiction. I didn't believe it but the day after my first husband allowed a recorder onto the internet so we could rebuild trust, he began drinking!!!

Don't let him tell you there't no inherent danger in "just looking." If you had people giving you desserts all day long and came home to a healthy meal, you'd not be hungry. If both of you DELIBERATELY deprive yourelves of soaking up images and fantasies of others, you will FEAST on each other. My current husband worked hard at overcoming addiction and we have a super love life b/c he is going for a pure mind. I praise God for him and the people who helped him.

I sincerely appreciate the response of men to this topic. However, I am always discouraged because it ultimately ends with the conclusion 'it's normal' and/or guys will become addicted no matter what. I really want men to GET what porn can say to the
woman in your life & why that causes withdrawals from your Love Bank.

I am in a new relationship with a man who is a really good guy & is very good to me - willing to discuss any issues we (I) have, compromise & change. The willingness to change goes both ways btw, so...LOL!

By no means am I a prude & we have a very healthy sexual relationship. He had a subscription to 'Playboy' & viewed online porn before he met me. He has been upfront with me and I sincerely appreciate that. I don't live with him & because of our jobs, we don't see each other every day. I'm not so stupid as to think he wouldn't need to masturbate ever, or look at other other women. His viewing habits aren't excessive or obsessive. He would definitely prefer me to looking at a mag or video. He really is "normal."

But, his 'Playboy' mags do irritate me. When I am at his house is it too much to ask that I not have to see it? He doesn't leave them lying around like the newspaper. But, he may have the current issue in the guest bathroom magazine rack when I go over. How would YOU GUYS feel if your partner left out her copy of 'Playgirl' when you were around? Would it make you feel like wanting to be sexual or even interact with her? If you really thought about it, would some withdrawals be made from your Love Bank because these guys are YOUNGER, HOTTER & BIGGER than you are & she makes a conscious decision and effort to look at them?

I'm not his mother & I don't expect him to stop his subscription or not look at porn. But I do expect to not have to look at it if I don't want to even if it's his house. Am I asking too much?

A part of me feels like I want some sort of comeuppance. I want him to 'get' what seeing that mag says to me because I don't think if I actually SAID those words to him, he'd appreciate it very much -- "I LIKE LOOKING AT PICTURES OF NAKED MEN WHO ARE NOT YOU. I love you & it has nothing to do with you, but I like to do it."

Another part of me just wants to let it be, even though I am having a hard time. I am at a point where I am trying to work on restoring love for him because this seems like a small thing considering. Yet, it's a COMPLETE turn off when I analyze it.

Please advise and thanks so much!

Look at it this way. I lost my wife to a former boss who constantly watched porn. I had to deal with my wife saying she hated sex all of a sudden. At which I bought a sex book thinking I would get the edge. Only to find out that she gave the sex book to my boss. Before I could use any of the things I learned that I was doing wrong, he slept with my wife before I came back home. I had to deal with her saying she didn't like me anymore. I had to deal with what my boss always called me, "Scrawny looking a hole." I had to deal with my wife all of a sudden wanting playboy clothes and earrings. She also started watching cheaters and the girl next door. I had to watch as she absolutely changed into another woman after she had an affair with the devious and wicked stupid boss, who violated every honor code of my job. I got the cold shoulder and my vacation was cut off just so she could sleep with him on a camping trip that she said she was going alone. I had to deal with her saying that he was better in bed, that he was more comfortable (because he read that book), that she was told she was tight and that I needed to shave and use condoms. Which we never did before.

I didn't know at the time that my wife was having sex with him in the other room of my house, while I had to sleep in another room, until I watched a porno from somebody else. I didn't really lust after it, in fact it got me mad. It's the one where they pickup random women off the street, trying to take advantage of them, saying that they will marry them and go steady. At the end of it they just drop her off in the street half naked. Dang I hated watching it, but it showed me how guys take advantage of women and other people's wives.
When I get back home on my really freaking long business trip, I will buy a bunch of sex books. The thing is, I didn't know what I was doing was wrong even though we made love every day until she picked up that idiot from the airport. She was extremely conservative like you are, not wanting me to watch porn and thought masterbation was gross. I didn't have a problem with stopping the former but the latter I stopped because I freaking loved her. Some guys actually learn how to have sex better from porn, but from the sex books, they say that 90% of porn is fake. I only got the book to improve my love life, only for it to be handed to the very guy I was trying to pull her away from. I don't think anyone else would of gone as far as I did and not divorce and leave. I will make sure if I ever marry again, that this WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. I will be the freaking best in bed for my one and only wife I'll be faithful to. I will make sure my brother get's some sex ed when he get's married. I am buying him one of those books as a wedding gift. I do not want to see anyone else close to me go through what I went through. My boss had an affair with my wife and got her pregnant.

I hope this wasn't to graphic, but you get the idea that I lost my wife to someone that knew more than I did. I think the point was, why she even gave him the chance? The reason is I think is because she had past partners that she didn't even bother to tell me were better. It could of been emotional unavailibilty, but what sealed the deal was the physical, not the inner spiritual. Of course she had to have an emotional affair first. Which did happen online without me knowing it. Never trust a wife that WANTS you to watch TV and play video games while she sits in her room with the door shut. I didn't want to play anymore yet she kept telling me to keep on.

I loved and cherished her as much as I could. I thought that love never failed. I learned later that I just didn't know how to love. Alot of people have told me later that I should of never married my first love. That it never works out in the end. I just didn't have any experience emotionally, physically, and mentally to keep the marriage going. I was told in the end that women love guys with experience. Virgins don't know what they are doing. That if I ever married again, that I will only get a fatter and uglier looking chick than her. We used to make fun of my boss for going out with messed up looking women. I never really liked making fun of people based on their looks, but I might of gotten used to it because she did it all the time.

I thought that porn wouldn't win. That a pure heart and mind that loved God would continue on. I was just wrong from the beginning marrying her. I needed to change myself, before I could change her. I was just not confident enough to stop my boundries from being violated.

Does your husband use porn to escape? Deal with his feelings? Does he try to numb his feelings with it? Is he still try to create an intimate life with you? Does he go out on dates with you, make an effort, or does your marriage resemble one that has just experienced the discovery of an affair?

Porn use does have nothing to do with you. But, be aware, that simply getting his needs/her needs may not solve the issue. If your husband is using porn to fill avoid in his life or to deal with the ups and downs of life, then you may need to seek help elsewhere first.