Sorry but her going to the cassino without you is unacceptable no matter what. It is unacceptable she is hiding anything from her spouse. Any outside communication that it not open to both is unacceptable. No such thing as secrecy in a M. If that is pushing her tough. You don't have a M then it is just room mates.

It is nearly impossible to stop someone determined to have an affair from pursuing one. Short of locking her in a closet, there isn't much you can do.

Once you have clear evidence of the infidelity, you can expose it to friends and relatives who may have an influence on your wife. But some infidels respond to exposure by entrenching even further into the affair. They come to believe that making sacrifices to the affair (going against the advice of friends and family; even losing their friendship) demonstrates their commitment to their "soulmate."

The Plan A/Plan B approach is a method intended to help the wayward spouse see that their proper place is with their marital partner, and it helps you, too.

You need to install a keylogger on the home computer while she's off at the casino. Google spector pro.

You will no long need her passkey to access email. You will see it all.

Is the consensus then that I Plan A it until I have solid proof of something going on? Or, do I calmly push on her a little, and let her know that her behaviors and words are pointing directly at an affair?

From what I have read so far about it, and I'm brand new here, it would seem that Plan A would apply in my situation regardless

Zimm,

Investigate, Expose, and Plan A. i would also recommend you get the books available on this sight Surviving An Affair and His Needs Her Needs.

Zimm,

You have already had suggested that you install a key logger. Do it. Next, I would really suggest you hire a PI in Vegas to keep an eye on her. It will cost you, but KNOWING what you are dealing with can save you huge amounts of money and heartache later. Get the info.

I would bet that menopause is part of the issue. But, the real issue is how is she handling it? And it would seem not very well. So get the information you need, and THEN make a decision.

Oh and stress coupled with menopause is really bad news. It sounds as if her new job provides plenty of stress.

Get the data.

God Bless,

JL

Plan A, regardless. That includes finding out what is going on. The fact that your wife was trying to hide something on the computer is a BIG RED FLAG. People who hide things have something to hide.

I would get a keylogger installed, and hire someone to watch her at the casino.

Sorry for the newbie question, but is there a link someone could post for a Plan A? I think I understand the concept but also think I have seen a couple different versions / interpretations floating around in these threads.

Zimm,

I don't want to further alarm you, but just because wife is so busy does not mean that she does not have time to start/develop an affair.

My DH started an office affair and I had no clue. Thankfully it was discovered after 60 days but up until the day before he told me I did not suspect ANYTHING. He still came home for lunch some, called me and was always home shortly after work. But they did meet for lunch and at work. She would come up to his office right after 5:00 and he was home by 5:30. It started with a HANDFUL of e-mails and then phone calls. Most of the calls were made on office lines, so that's how I didn't know. But then he started doing something else (unrelated to affair) that started me snooping. NEVER did I expect to discover that he was having an affair.

So don't think she doesn't have the time. She may be doing work at home at night because she's distracted during the day. Get a voice recorder for the car. Download a key logger. If you can get into her office at night then do that. Start snooping. But DO NOT let on what you are doing till you are sure either way. If she thinks you suspect her then she will just do a better job of covering her tracks.

Take Care.

Thanks. No, I'm not discounting the possiblity that it could happen at all. I know if there's a will, there's a way. What I am trying to do is be cognizant of the fact that while that is a possiblity, that there could also be some fairly legitimate feelings, hormones, stress, and other issues at work here that could be the source of the problem as well. Since I don't have anything solid at this that points for sure to that's indeed happening, all I can do is start to make the changes in myself that contributed to the issue that we have now, and be as observant as possible.

key logger installed asap. Plan A...and if you can afford it...a PI at the casino. Don't wait until she is away at the casino to install the key logger.

Had some communication with W finally. Daughter came home with a "strategy" on how to approach my wife about her work obsession and the obvious personality change in her. daughter showed me the note and I calmly asked W to sit down to discuss. Her reaction to the counselors note home was that my daughter was up to something...that this was for attention. And I said yes, from you. Coversation drifted to "our issues". Basically reiterated everything she told me initially. Hasn't loved me for basically the entire relationship. We're good people but different people. Hasn't been happy for some time...daughter doesn't need her as much....giving 200% to the job, nothing left to give. Hasn't allowed herself to consider the consequences of us moving apart but can't see us remaining together because she doesn't know if she can "fix" how she feels. Knows I love her, but she just doesn't have it in her, and hasn't. has just been going along with the flow all these years to make everyone happy..specifically my daughter. Feels that she's a very driven, lets get stuff done type of person, and I'm more the we'll get around to it when we get around to it type person. She was very uncomfortable talking. I did ask again about the possibility of an A. She of course denied.She did make an appointment to see a counselor, so I guess that's a start. She's talking about us as a family going camping this summer in one breath, but telling me that she doesn't know if she could ever be intimate with me again in another. In fact, she seems very anti-sex...hating life angry right now. And that's what keeps me guessing. Just finding it hard to believe that someone can participate in a relationship as long we have, and actually get along quite well, only to get to this big bombshell. She's had a pretty good life for the last 13 years. Any thoughts?

Just my take: if you are in a lot of pain, then YOU should be going to a marriage counsellor, right? It's too easy to just expect our spouse to stop doing whatever they are doing, and to decide that our bad feelings are caused by our spouse's actions or words. Usually not the case, always not the whole story. You are in this marriage, too, and you are contributing to the current dynamic.

And forget the spying. The quickest, most effective way to make someone start (or escalate) behaving in an untrustworthy way is to treat them like they are not worth trusting. You are more likely to accomplish training them to be even more secretive and sneaky, to get around your spying. Don't think they can't figure out whether you have a keylogger on the computer! Many people get "busted" for this every day! One little computer glitch and your whole scheme is exposed.

Here's a quote from "Marriage Fitness" by Mort Fertel:

"Nothing really changes except love. But love changes your experience of everything. So when love changes, your experience of everything else changes too.

"Your spouse and your compatiblity don't changee. The love in your marriage changes how you experience them. If you take away the golden lens, everything looks different.

"Your spouse is not compassionate, for example. Your spouse has the capacity to be compassionate or harsh. The characteristic that you experience depends on your marriage. When you're in love, your spouse is compassionate. When you're not,your spouse is harsh. But what's causing the change is the state of your connection - your love."

The idea here, and the idea of Marriage Builders, is that we need to start focusing on RESTORING LOVE, not going into detailed problem-solving mode. When you and your spouse are not connecting is the WORST time to try to solve problems. You need to restore the love FIRST, then many of the problems will fade away as you see your spouse through the "golden lens" of love again. Others will be much more manageable in the softer atmosphere of mutual love.

Gotta say I don't agree with you, Mamasan. It sounds like there's an affair going on. We all know from our time here and in our own experiences that a WS will NOT admit to anything without full on proof. Even in the face of full on proof, they are pretty much garaunteed to try to lie their way out of it...it's a given.

The first step is to get the proof, so that you can start the whole process of recovering your marriage.

Burying your head in the sand, hoping that things will get better because you've started improving things won't help. It's a sure fire method to make a cake-eating fence sitter. Someone who'll soak up getting their emotional needs being met by an OP AND their spouse at the same time.

I agree with making positive changes in yourself...that's part of plan A. Getting the proof, and pursuing ending contact with whoever is causing your spouse to act in a wayward manner...that's the REST of plan A. JUST AS IMPORTANT.

People in affairs are notorious at rewriting the history of your marriage. Mine did it and most others did too.

Begin a good plan A. Work on being the best 'you' possible.
Whether you save your marraige or not...you will be better off for it.

Plan A and Plan B

Pep's Carrot and Stick of Plan A

And I still say spy: install a good keylogger asap. Make sure it is set up in stealth mode.

Figured I would give this a bump with some new information. I do need the help! Have been trying to plan A over the last several days. Worked my butt off in the house all day today. Didn't get noticed. Have checked the computer and have been relieved to find no activitiy. W has been amicable but distant. In other words, there are definitley boundraies about touching...we're apparently trying to "sort it out", or that's the impression I've been under. Tomorrow is the big casino trip. Checked the computer today and found out while I was at grocery store, W went into work email, and made sure she permanently deleted yet another "friendly" email, but not the type of smoking gun email I need. Same guy I discovered the other "friendly" emails to a week earlier. So, I'm sill confused as to the logic, but the missing pieces as to the behavior are starting to come together. I know these two have never met. I do think they are meeting for the first time tomorrow. I have enough going on in my head to suspect an EA of some sort, but no real hard evidence. W had gone inot her email obviously trying to make sure that any incriminating emails were completely gone. I'm having a hard time understanding all of this. I think there's some kind of an attraction happening between the two. Any evidence is circumstatial at this point and could easily be dismissed as "you're crazy". But, I know what I've seen, and I know how I feel. And I feel that my wife's seeming mental snap is probably being influenced by the thought of this curiosity to meet this person. She leaves in 6 hours for the bus trip. Do I intervene based on suspicions or do I keep quite and see how it develops until I have something concrete?

Put the debatable stuff aside for a bit, buddy.

Would you say your wife suddenly seems to have very little compassion for you?

Yes...she has no compassion at all. I'm fairly convinced that she is heading out this morning to met this guy. Why log into the work email, to just find an email to make sure it's deleted? And the content, while seemingly innocuous, suggests to me that she is going to great lengths to make sure that there is no trace. This is a cat 7 mouse game we're playing. I see the behavioral changes in her..i.e. the focus on appearance, the hiding of the "key" to the email. It's not coincendetnal. I believe that there is an EA happening that is about to escalate into a PA tomorrow. Do I have hard proof? no. Do I suspect? Absoultely.

That lack of compassion is necessary for people who are having affairs.

I think it's some kind of defensive psychological adjustment. It's not the result of a long evolution, that switch. it's an event. I can't think of another situation where someone so suddenly stops caring about the suffering of someone they love.

I'm really sorry this is happening. You have to be smart now and decide what you want to do.

If it were me I'd move heaven and earth to keep it from becoming a PA. Treat this like the biggest crisis of your life. Of course if she wants to do this you can't stop her. You should still try. It's a fight you're in, to defend your family. Don't think it's better not to fight. It is not.

I remember my ex-wife's affair really got going when she went away for a weekend to think things over at her family's vacation house. By "think things over" I mean "hook up with her affair partner". For practical purposes my marriage ended that weekend.

If that happened to me today I would serve my spouse divorce papers before she was finished straightening out her skirt.