GGables, you are so kind to say that, but I fear you are right... I did not mean that much to him, and so, I really don't think he is missing me at all. In contrast, I feel like no matter how much time goes by, I will always feel some pain from him ending it - a lot like LetSTry describes.

Then there's the thought that we may not even be friends. We promised that we would stay friends no matter what happened with moving, jobs, etc. However, now I think that he doesn't even care or like me enough to be friends. The realization of all this is like a punch in the stomach, heart, head, etc. It's so, incredibly painful. Sorry to be back on the pity party. I am trying to be strong.

You know, I only fell in love once (the ex/WH) and although I wasn't "in love" yet this time. I was definitely falling in love. Losing it and feeling so confused about what went wrong is awful.

The thing that went wrong is you picked a man who was moving across an ocean. I think women put more emphasis on relationships than men do. When one of ours ends, even a bad one, it leaves a hole in our lives. For men, the hole is quickly filled back up by career, sports, whatever. I think that may be why when women leave men, the men are often in shock. Not only that she left, but that there's this big piece missing in the fabric of their lives. Not all men of course. But a lot of men. But, then, look where my so-called love life is. I'm a littl biased right now.

{{{{Nev}}}}

It isn't black and white. He doesn't either love you or feel nothing. My guy tried to tell me he was falling in love with me, too, and I cut him off. I didn't believe him since he'd just told me he'd moved his XGF back in (something I'd already heard from mutual friends).

I know he cared for me based on his behavior while we were dating. But he didn't care for me as much as he cared for XGF or as much as I cared for him. For example, he'd told me he and XGF would always be friends and during our relationship, he was constantly on the phone with her "helping" her to move on. When he broke up with me, he told me we'd always be friends, but when I told him we couldn't talk now that he was living with someone else, he agreed. He did try to call and left one message, but I never answered or returned his call ~ too much MB to let him try to "help" me to move on!

It was a rebound relationship for him. Yours may have been a relationship intended to fill his time while in your city that got more intense than he'd anticipated. Both your guy and mine had choices to make. I came in 2nd in a winner takes all race to the relationship with the history. How could I fault that when it was the choice I wish my XH had made?

Dear Nev ~ I agree with Greengables. YOU are not a fool...not by ANY stretch of the imagination.

Look, great & compassionate people often get hurt by others who have not the same depths of compassion & feeling & sense of what is appropriate. That is this life unfortunately.

Let me just tell you that a good many guys out there just don't know how to lead a relationship - for many, many reasons.

And a significant number of guys are self-centered enough that they will not take care of your feelings. They just do NOT think things through from how it makes you feel.

A lot of guys think girls think / feel like we guys do. They're clueless!! They haven't read, studied or learned the differences in the genders.

Yes there are "players". If this guy wasn't trying to get in your pants Nev, then I would feel pretty comfortable stating he was NOT a player. But that doesn't mean he has it figured out how to take care of your feelings too.

Lastly, there's a lot of us guys who just do not know how to break up. We don't want to hurt girls feelings, so we kind of break up. Sort of hint & sort of let things start to unravel, etc. The ole let em down slow trick. Oft times it isn't intentional & thought through, just a selfish guy who doesn't realize he's hurting the girl worse by not being forthright & honest.

You can recognize this type of guy when he wants limbo & wants to kind of stay in touch, etc.

Finally! It's also entirely possible that this guy really does NOT want to terminate this, but doesn't know how to keep it alive given the challenges ahead of LDR, different countries, etc. That everything you see is actual face value correct!! So when he goes away for awhile, he's just trying to make his best effort to end it, but IS in reality torn in his mind what to do.

But with any of these scenarios, the bottom line is this: We all owe it in our relationships to be forthcoming! Tell the TRUTH of our hearts to those we care about. Don't mislead. Don't lead on. Don't be wishy washy. Don't do limbo.

This isn't an easy thing for fallen human beings who are essentially selfish at their core to do, but it is something we must strive for & grow up into if we expect to have successful, loving relationships with another high quality human being.

I'm glad you know God, Nev. Please keep me in your prayers too. This is a tough time for me as well. I had a hard time getting out of bed 2 days ago. Don't know when I've been this depressed....been since 2004 & my divorce to be exact.

High Flight

Hugs to you Nev and to you High Flight.

Thanks GG. I have learned so much after finding this board and reading Harley's books, but I am always aware that the reasons people find MB are usually filled with pain. And sometimes there's more pain after that. I wish I could erase all that hurt for everyone.

Anyways...an update of sorts, and a new issue that is giving me insight.

Update: Well, he contacted me on Saturday, just three days after our big talk Wednesday where I wasn't sure how we left things. We exchanged several texts back & forth on Saturday and Sunday. (We usually correspond by text and then talk in person when we see each other several times a week.) His contacts were sweet, warm, kind & flirtatious. I took a while to respond each time, sometimes hours, but I was upbeat & witty, and I ended the conversation first. I have NO IDEA whether that means we are just continuing as usual, or what??

My friend, the psych, interprets this as him missing me (especially the contact so soon) and wanting to pick back up where we left off (which supposedly guys can do as if no time has elapsed), but that he is cautious and afraid of rejection or drama (I have never been a drama queen). My guy friend simply says...it never ended...enjoy & just act normal. I don't know. He did make a point of telling me that he was not out all weekend, except for the usual after-work event on Fridays, whereas I had already made plans Saturday.

Any thoughts/interpretations?

New Issue: Well, my ex/WH is back and wants me to give him another chance. It's been years since the divorce/Dday/all that stuff. He claims he's changed, he's done serious work on his issues, he wants a chance to show me, and is just asking for me to spend some time with him so he can prove it to me, etc, etc. Part of me feels a moral/religious pull to give him a chance, even though we divorced due to his adultery & other things. Part of me just really doesn't have any heart left to give anyone. I wonder if trying would make me feel like a WS feels when they decide to give up the OP for the marriage and go through withdrawal--EXCEPT I was not at all a WS since the divorce was final a long time ago.

Anyways...it just odd what life throws at you. Bittersweet. And numbing.

Wow, Nev, when it rains it pours!

Whatever you decide in either case, I'd suggest taking it slow, giving yourself time to decide what you really want. You're in charge here.

Well, I'm not sure it's good rain. I'm going to babble a little...searching for insight and wisdom from you guys

With regard to ex/WH --- reconciliation was what I wanted for so long, worked hard for, felt was the "right" choice, what was "supposed to be", what we promised, but he just got worse. He drained my LBank to empty & was the one who wanted the D. Part of me can't imagine trying again, part of me feels obligated, and part of me feels resigned...the thoughts are something like this...I will probably be alone otherwise and we were supposed to be together forever according to our vows, so I guess I should at least try. sigh...

As far as the Norwegian boyfriend goes...I don't know how to interpret things. It doesn't feel like I'm in charge. I thought he might just be feeling guilty, so was reaching out, but both my male & female friends say no, if that was the case then he would avoid me. Maybe he just misses the ENs I provided, like admiration, but doesn't really want to go back to boyfriend/girlfriend. Or maybe he does want to go back to "us" like they say. So...it's confusing, and hurtful. It also feels so...what's the feeling? wrong? unfair? hopeless? rejection? ...that he is moving back to Norway before we have more time together. Although realistically, I would not move to Norway so soon anyway.

I'm trying to look at this with MBuilders wisdom...that my ex/WH hasn't been meeting my ENs and did MAJOR LBusting, so of course my LBank is empty. Whereas the boyfriend did meet my ENs, and no LBusting, and it all seemed so easy and natural for us -- our ENs are very similar. (Although I was not yet "in love", I was falling.)

However, there seems to be an element missing in the MBuilders formula, because it seems that logically the boyfriend's personality, values, likes/dislikes, humor, etc, etc are all a better match for me no matter how well my ex meets my ENs. Ok, I still don't think I'm in charge on the boyfriend issue, which is why I'm down. I want what I probably can't have, and may never find again. Yes, I can have a decent relationship and get my ENs met, etc. However, it felt like something more, and I don't believe that those connections are easily found -- there are so few examples in reality.

ok, done with my babbling ... thanks for reading this far, if you could stand it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Nev, Wow! For someone not into drama you've been put in a position where you're forced to deal with some. You have my sympathies.

The Norwegian boyfriend: I'd tell him you're confused & ask him to be clear about what he's looking for from you. You, need to be clear with yourself about what you want from him & the relationship. The interpretation of others regarding his behavior can only take you so far.

Your ex WH: Yikes! I've thought about this scenario for myself & wondered what I'd do. I've come to feel like this. I don't respect ex, he was a liar & ,I believe, a cheater. He did some things during the divorce that made me view him a new & unlikable way. Yeah, I know, during a divorce we are under stress & my not make the best choices, but still there was behavior that can't be disregarded. And here's a big one, ex is happy to be a part time dad. Though I've offered him as much time with the boys as he'd like, he's happy with seeing them twice a week & every other weekend. Also, he's 45 minutes away which makes things difficult, but he's fine with him that too.

Simply put, he's not a man I'd want in my life because he doesn't have the qualities I want my partner to have. Regardless of our vows, which I did take seriously, & our children, he already tore that to bits.

So, my feeling is if you want to give your xWH another chance it should be because you feel you can trust him & that he will be the kind of man you want in your life not because you feel some obligation. You have one life & your ex has demonstrated what he's capable of, do you want to spend time seeing that his behavior matches his words for you or him?

Know the feeling...

I didn't mean it was necessarily "good" rain, more like the difference between a gentle Spring shower and a downpour with at least some minor flooding... It would be easier if their intentions were clear, but they're no more clear than your feelings, especially about your X.

I read everyone's relationship problems here and think I should probably feel at least some gratitude for not having a relationship... but I don't.

I wish you luck sorting all this out. Let us know how it goes.

A not-so-interesting update: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The Norw. (ex)boyfriend: He continues to call and text me almost every day, even when he went back to Norway for a week. He says he misses me, etc, and he seems to genuinely care, but ... he is still moving to Norw. in a few weeks, etc. Anyone have some insight on his continued contact?

I guess we are transitioning into friendship mode and we'll see what happens over time. My heart feels so much better knowing that he does care and he couldn't just "flip a switch" on our relationship and not miss me or us. Or maybe he just feels guilty? I dunno. I still feel very hurt & rejected. I wished I inspired him to take more risk despite the barriers of distance, prior hurts, obligations far away, etc., but that would make him less logical/pragmatic, and I adore that part of him.

The ex WH: So, we are taking it slow, just spending time with each other. I do see positive changes in him. We plan to continue spending time and see what happens. It's so ironic, to think back to a time when I wanted to recover so badly. Now I just feel numb about it. Totally numb & neutral -- all sparks are gone. Maybe they can be rekindled. MB would say so, but I'm not sure I believe that anymore, now that I'm the resistant one. Very ironic. Maybe it's because I gave it 110% for so long, and I was the faithful one, and it was all a while ago. Maybe I'm just spent, especially after a recent heartbreak.

Hello, Neverthesame.

What a couple of weeks you're having! I'm so sorry to hear you have so much to process all at once <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Forgive me if someone's already done this (it's a long thread) but I wanted to answer your starter post:
One excellent thing that you can take away from all this: your instincts are perfectly sound!

In the future, you'll know you can trust your gut feelings 100%

Hope that's some comfort <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
EW

Actually, my instincts were completely wrong.

He (foreign boyfriend) tells me that from the time we met, and before he even asked that our relationship be exclusive, he did not date or kiss anyone else. Sure, he could be lying, but I don't think so based on what I know about him, and also for the following reason...

He is now trying to work out an arragement with his job that would allow him to stay in the US a little while longer so that we can continue dating each other. He continued to contact me after the sorta break-up, and said that he realizes he made a mistake and misses me, wants to extend his job if he can, etc. We'll see what happens with his job...I'm trying not to get my hopes up.

After talking with a couple close friends, I understand the "pull of one's homeland," especially if "home" is far away, includes your parents, siblings, best friends for decades, a job you love---everything that is dear to you. It's unreasonable (and illogical) to ask him to give it all up after dating someone for 4+ months. We are not in college anymore - we have serious careers and family obligations that take priority. It may be that we will get to the point where one of us is willing to leave home, country, family, friends, job, etc. to join the other, but that decision will not be made after only 4 months of dating.

So, on the one hand, my heart feels like things are "right" again and I was not foolish or blind or whatever. On the other hand, I know the difficulty of overcoming the homeland/distance issues, and that makes me sad.

(((Nev))))

Don't you just HATE being a wise grown-up?

I wish I could wave my magic wand.

NTS, use the experience as a learning experience, and not the goal. . . If you are confused, and devastated by his actions, Plan B, start to heal, and get back to being independent. . . you may be very worthwhile, you just have to find a similar person that is worthwhile. . .

he is not any more. . .

time to move on. . . but it was a wonderful experience with a person, but not something that you should expose yourself to again. . .

my opinion. . .. only

wiftty