I find it disturbing that my H spends hours and hours a day surfing this site. He has an addictive personality and he can't seem to stop, even when I've told him repeatedly that it bothers me.

Why does it bother me? For one, I think its voyeuristic. There's a certain creepiness that he is so utterly fascinated with the trials and tribulations of other people's marriages. I've asked him numerous times why he finds it so interesting - what is he looking for? - when supposedly he has no issues with how things are going in our own M. I would totally understand if he were having issues, and was looking for a different perspective AFTER he had come to me about it, and been supposedly O&H. So if he has no issues, why does he find it necessary to be on here ALL THE TIME? Particularly when I've told him that it makes me uncomfortable. He tells me he'll curb his time, and it works for a day or so, and then he's right back to this obsessiveness.

Second, I think this is a form of escapism. It's a way of avoiding dealing with things in real life, and it ends up affecting the other aspects of our lives because he gets behind in work, and then has to work extra time nights and weekends in order to make up for the lost time. That's supposed to be "our time", right?

So MB is a MAJOR LB for me, and he can't seem to stop doing it. I think he is substituting this obsession for other obsessions he's had in the past (sex, for instance) that caused a lot of the issues we had in our M, and not actually confronting the real issues that are causing it.

Just thought if I posted here it would get his attention...

Dear HardHeadedWoman ~

Your affair was quite recent, and the wounds in his heart and soul are very fresh and very very raw. His need to read here is NORMAL and HEALTHY and isn't voyeuristic - there is comfort in understanding that your affair wasn't special, that your affair was not unique, nor beautiful nor meaningful. The marriage and wife he thought he had is GONE, and he needs to grieve that old reality and learn to adjust to the new reality that YOUR ACTIONS have thrust on him. Your husband is trying to heal from what is nothing short of the worst pain another person can give another. We learn from reading others stories. Sometimes it is easier to sort out our own pain and to put our own lives and perspectives back into shape by reading someone else's situation - it is less painful to think about things in the context of someone else's life than our own.

We are the best support system your marriage has going for it right now.

How incredibly cruel, and disrespectful (lovebusting!) on your part to expect your husband to forgo the support and comfort he needs right now as a result of the damage YOU have inflicted on him and your marriage. Escapism? Hardly.

To me as a BW the fact that you consider this voyeuristic is actually slightly amusing.

Wasn't your affair voyeuristic? wasn't your affair a form of escapism? Who are you to judge.

This place gets many of us through the day.... through the day because of what our WS have done to us. Something we never asked for.

We come here and get SUPPORT from strangers going through the same thing. From strangers because the person we had the most trust in destroyed that trust by having an affair.

Sorry but I think it particularly cruel that you ahve invadd your BH place of comfort by complaining about it.

You certainly picked the right name hardheadedwoman.

Still

how about, rather than trying to get him to stop doing something... give him more positive things to do with you instead.

reading here can get a little addicting... but if there is something more desirable to do, I think your husband might spend less time here.

I think there is a part of this that is not being acknowledged; the search for understanding.

As difficult as this process is for both WS and BS the motives for both are a 180 degree difference. The BS needs to know why they should move forward in this relationship. They love their spouse dearly and are looking for concurring opinion (on MB or others) or similar success stories to fuel their efforts to overcome the feelings of rejection, shame, diminishment, inadequacy, misjudgment, lack of trust, lack of self trust, and as a result their failing self esteem (or should I say “stolen”).

On the other hand the FWS is looking to stop it all. “God, I wish I had the opportunity to make this decision once again”. Well, you don’t have that option. We are both left with the wreckage of your choices. This terrible train to Hll they have created. They are ashamed, embarrassed and feel lesser than. Who wants to feel like that? So, how do they deal with it? Are they up front in such a way to really deal with the problem of their own morality, their own boundaries, their own inadequacies? Who wants to face the absolute worst in themselves? Who wants to see themselves in this light? Who wants to really face the one thing they, themselves, wouldn’t accept from their mate?

So, it all becomes a game so to speak. Actually it is a viscous circle of “self”. The WS seeks to deflect all things that could possibly make them feel even smaller. All efforts to avoid indictment are implemented. Come on gang! All of what got them into this is just how small they feel of and about themselves in the first place, right? The BS is looking for ways to accept. Why? Because they do not want to lose the love of their life. They look for any and all reasons for their WS not to be directly responsible for their own behavior. Anything that will cause he/she not to be so much at fault, right? Why? Because if he/she is so at fault (which they are) why am I such a fool to stay here? Do I not expose myself to this potential once again some time in the future? Is he/she really this “kind” of person?

So it is! Both are now changed forever! Let’s not kid ourselves here. A WS has now earned a dubious distinction that both BS AND WS agree with. It is NEVER said but you both now think in the same way. So, what is there to do?

Before we address this let me share our situation with both WS and BS alike. My committed girlfriend of 4 years cheated on me. Truth could not be found in her shame so she didn’t reveal the truth and let me choose my life. Well, it came out (part of it) in the year of our marriage. We were young and she was so afraid. She had much regret but, in my mind, little remorse. She just could not deal with it and I let it go. We didn’t speak of it for 28 years but, its effects, were ever present. I didn’t sleep for several years. I had all the signs of PTSD but I thought it only my own weakness. So, I fought to bury it. You know what, it can’t be buried!!

28 years later, with the help from sites like this, we started over and for the first time in all of our married years the process of healing began. I am a successful and proud man and the pain and diminishment hit me like it never had before. This time she learned of her “true” responsibility to our healing. Our love and our intimacy have never been like this. Now we make love whenever it comes over us. No intent, it just happens and it happens now to the tune of 4-5-6 times a week. All that we could have been is hitting us all at once. At the same time we know, without question, that few relationships could have survived this kind of neglect. What a waste of so many, many years!

Back to the question; there is ONLY one way to the promise land and it is totally and only through empathy. I’m not talking about lip service I’m talking about a WS that really and truly wants, more than anything, to make their BS whole. It is step number one that matters more than anything and it absolutely has to come from the offender (WS). I know it is hard but it really is that simple; if your healing as a couple is NOT initiated and fed by the WS you stand little chance of reaching the depth of love that you are capable of. I waited for 28 years. Most would have found a reason for their own affair or to divorce for irreconcilable differences.

We are so Fing busy protecting our pride, our self worth, our hurt, our desire that we just do not stop long enough to see what we truly get is never more than we give.

My lovely wife has been true to me our entire marriage, and me, for our entire lives, but, but, the pinnacle of our love has eluded us due to our own failing to be empathic for each other and had it not been for her grand efforts, her making sure I knew, without a doubt, that I was indeed the core of her wants, her desires, the center of her world, and that all of it was what she wanted above all else, that is, to the end of time, my soul may have never accepted her as my mate.

Today we are whole because of what she has given me. We still have some bad days but there is not one shred of doubt why we are finally here; IT IS HER. If you’re a WS now know this right now; today, this moment, take off your armor of pride and self protection and give your BS what it is that they deserve (and desperately need). Regardless of your retorts, defenses or any of your dribble, they did not cause your transgressions, you did! Proof that “you deserve” is what they need. Prove to me (all BS’s) that you deserve my total and permanent love that I have for you. Prove that I shall (or should) commit all I am to you!

How do you do that? Simple, do all you can to wear those shoes. It’s real and virtuous empathy that it takes. That is indeed what you’re BS is asking. Why does he/she not want this enough? They pray; “dear God, please give her/him the strength to see, to really see. Otherwise, please, please, set me free”.

So, if you want to know why he is visiting here it is because something is missing. HHW, what is it that he is missing? I suspect I know and I KNOW he does know and, frankly, I think you know too. The question is; will you ever ask? Will you take action?

Identical bump <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

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Nope. Not the least bit confused. I realize how much you THINK you know. ***********************
Do you listen as well as you preach?

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Addiction works both ways too. (FYI) **********************


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I have people who ARE interested in what I say and DO agree that I know what I am talking about. I am interested in helping them *****************************
I have read your story. What you preach and what you DID when your husband(s) are not one and the same. I notice that you don't mention that unless asked.

Hard:

Not a particulary positive post you posted.

I understand the addictive personality that it takes to hang around here. I have the same tendencies.

It lead me to an affair.

I've replaced it with this site, to a certain extreme.

However, My M is in a very different place now. I didn't get here to the discussion boards until over a year after Dday.

Do you think your H is spending to much time here?

Maybe he is. What else does he do with his time? What do you do with yours?

Is he using what he finds here to improve his understanding of you and how M's work?

Or is he using it to do something else instead of paying attention to you?

Is he using it to improve himself and strenghen the M, and this makes you uncomfortable?

And they are questions for you. They need to be investigated in your own heart, in order to properly determine his use of this site and what it really means to you.

And you could always sit next to him and surf with him. There are a lot of provocative things on this site that can go along way towards fixing the problems in your M.

And getting behind in his work, so that he doesn't come home? and works more?

A definate sign of addiction. Even if it wasn't MB.

So, it might make some angry around here, See Keepmovn4wrd's post above in reply to some of that, but your H may be here, but he may need to be other places instead.

And this is where POJA comes into play. Your H can be here for 20 hours a week, if other conditions are met, No excessive overtime at work, etc. Otherwise, he needs to be here for 5 hours.

And if we were talking about him being in a bar, everyone would be on your side to a certain extent.

Mrs LG said I golfed too much. But what she really wanted to know, was when I was planning on going, who I was going with, the expected cost and when I was going to return. So that she could plan her life as well. I had a plan, in my head, and she didn't need to know. I would let her know when I felt she needed to know. And, in turn, I would leave work and golf, and then have to work late/overtime to make up the missed time. (BTW: I never golfed with OW, I did use it to sneak time with OW however..) It was a control thing. Mrs. LG doesn't mind that I play now. I keep her informed. She has even taken lessons. She looks cute in a golf skirt...

So, Hardheadedwoman:

If you are still here, you made some valid points about your H. Any many here didn't want to respond to that. They only wanted to say that MB was great and that your H can stay around as much as he wants. But there is a limit to it.

And you can be more supportive by sitting next to him and learning as well.

AND letting him surf here by himself some to get what he needs.

* cross posted to make sure HHW sees this *

You ARE correct in that if he is spending "hours and hours" each day on this site that he IS addicted. You ARE correct in telling him your feelings on this. You are getting replies from some who may have the same addiction problem to this site. Some of them get pretty self righteous the more they are on here. I think a few of them have the same addiction problem he is having.

I think he would be wise to LISTEN to what you are saying. He certainly should know enough by now to cut back his time on this site to an agreeable amount of time. Your feelings ARE as valid as his are. He needs to apply the principles he is seems to be addicted to. I would agree that "hours and hours a day on this site could seem like a bit much. I bet things like this are how you two got into this situation in the first place. You have a valid view. Men who become mature learn to validate their wife's feelings before their own. When he does, things will move forward much better.


Hi KMF & HHW !

Its a bit of a presumption to baldly state that hours here means addicted. Some Hospital patients spend hours and hours in bed but they're not lazy. They're doing what helps make them better.

I spent most nights online to MB for the first six months after d-day. I was sucking not blowing: Getting incredible advice, but also suffusing myselfin the culture of hope that this greatest ever heartache might JUST be resolved positively for us.

When REM sang " the night is yours alone" I identifed with that perfectly. Questions and worries which seemed hopless in those long dark nights, were answered kindly and wisely, and it truly helped me not to go crazy.

I am the kind of person who reads the user manual fully. If I have a disease I need to study everything I can about it.

After massively concentrated posting for the first eight months or so my posting tailed off and i started to advise others. Again, i would argue not addiction:Iwas just paying back what I received.

Eventually after a 18 month sor so I felt that infidelity had become somthing of a grisly hobby to me so I quit MB altogether. This right now has been my first MB online period in many many months.

I didn't withdraw I was not addicted.

I do not recall if you were a BS, and FWS or not affected by infidelity so I cannot know if you have a natural empathy towards one type of protagonist more than another, but I can certainly understand the time spent here for a new BS like this.

My own dear Squid hated me visiting here too. She asked : " is that where you get to discuss what a slut I am with strangers?".

Since then she has come to thank MB for helping save our marriage, although she still would rather I spent time with her than online doing ANYTHING not just MB which is fair enough, and a product of Harley's 15 hour rule.

Regarding Listening to a Ws or recent FWS and validating their feelings, it is very difficult to do that when they are corrupted by entitlement, disrespect and self-preservationas much of WS and FWS fog speech can be.

Squid is now embarrassed by some of the spiel she issued forth back in the day. The thing to do is to say " I can see you feel passionately about that". Do not agree or disagree with the premise, as that serves no purpose. As you infer feelings are feelings, and exist where they are deemed right or wrong by an onlooker.

* Hrdhdwoman

Your H is devastated. You have almost killed him. Consider his time here as time in intensive care in hospital helping him get strong enough to survive away from here.

It is time to put HIS needs first if you wish to recover your marriage, I 'm afraid.

OH DEAR. Today the board troll is playing a self appointed psychoanalyst. LOL HOW CUTE. Where did you get your credentials? The same place you got the credentials to challenge Dr. Harley? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Maybe you should stick to what you do best, trolling boards with specialities about which you know nothing and taking drive-by cheap shots...with a snarky high school girl tone, of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

No it isn't Bob. It is actually quite normal of me to think that someone who spends "hours and hours" on here each day is addicted. Seems like the ones who spend or who have spent the most time on here are the ones that I have struck a nerve with. Especially when some of them are the ones who throw the word "addiction" around so much on here. Maybe they are in denial.







I think an argument of you having an addiction would be quite valid. "Massively concentrated"?

At work?
As soon as you arrived home each day?
First thing in the morning?

I would lean more TOWARD addiction than away from it.


You seem to have missed the point of the original post and because of your own past hurt are having a hard time seeing that this woman DOES have a valid and normal concern. Her husband also had a "sexual addiction? (her statement, not mine) Does that mean that it isn't an addiction if he says he needs to view porn to survive this affair? Ridiculous.


The whole point of this is improving THEIR marriage. (It isn't his marriage or her marriage)

What he should do and what would work the best is to LISTEN to her feelings about this. She says it is a LB for her for him being on here so much AND he agreed to cut back. I don't see where she said she never wants him on here. Do you?

He should tell her this...
"You may be right honey,maybe I do spend too much time on here. Do you want me to quit?


He will then find her softening to HIS point of view. I would bet that she would say that she didn't want him or isn't asking him to quit completely, but only cut it back like he already has promised he would.

Looks like we have some vets in denial. They can't admit when a person who was or is a WS has an opinion that doesn't fit into their mold.

Sounds like he had a sexual addiction before her affair. Maybe you vets should be spending your time "rebuking" him for his porn affair instead of trying to defend why each of you isn't addicted to this site. This woman makes perfect sense in what she says.

If you had been a BS and experienced the abyssal vastness of the loss on D-day perhaps you would understand less abstractly what this site offers such people.

At the beginning at least, it is not just an online community such as people subscribe to out of interest : car clubs and such. It is a living ,breathing life-saving resource IMO.

To you spending three hours straight most nights for months here appears like addiction, but to me it is treading a line between making it another day and giving up on life.

Thats why I used the analogy of a hospital patient in bed. laziness or therapy ? Depends on the onlooker I guess.

If you are not able, maybe you should be thankful that you cannot imagine how such concentrated MB usage might be necessary and theraputic. If so thats a major blessing. I wish to GOD I didn't have to know either.

All blessings.

BTW IMO Arguing personally with anonymous people on the internet is like being the McDonalds employee of the month: even if you win you're a loser.

Perhaps you are just ignorant about the nature of addiction/adultery recovery as you are with marital recovery? [but still feel entitled to comment, of course]

It is very normal to spend hours on recovery after a persons life has been consumed with a 24/7 addiction or traumatized with adultery. It is not a PART TIME endeavor, especially at first. When an alcoholic goes into AA, they are told to go to "90 meetings in 90 days," not because they are now "addicted" to meetings, but because that is what it takes to effect recovery.

Same thing with a freshly raped betrayed spouse. They become consumed with recovery efforts, most especially support resources, because that is what it takes to recover. Would you tell a rape victim that they were "addicted" if they spent hours a day reading about rape recovery? Of course not. That would be silly.

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From Penalty Kill

I think that quite a few things were ignored in the OP’s statements, in both this thread and her original thread. Far too many posters were intent on thumping her on the head – why, how dare she tell her H that he’s spending too much time on the forum!! Such a thing is impossible when one has been betrayed. Add invectives and stir. What was conveniently ignored was how much HHW was doing to make her marriage work (filling out EN questionnaires, marriage workshops, etc)

Without naming names, I find it ludicrous when posters with 5 digit post counts argue that MB isn’t addictive. I know a little something about addiction; addicts switch from one substance to another. The substance doesn’t have to be a drug; it can be an activity. And absolutely nowhere do I see Dr. Harley recommend that a BS spend hours on a forum as part of the recovery process. Instead, he says that BS and WS should spend as much time together as possible.

When is something a problem in a marriage? When one spouse believes that it is. It doesn’t matter a whit what other posters think – they’re not in the marriage. They can give their opinion, but that’s all it is – their opinion.

In our case, I noticed that when my H spent time on the forum he would grow angry. It was nothing I did; it was what he was doing. MB was not therapeutic for him in the least. He’s a very smart man who doesn’t have an addictive bone in his body. He doesn’t go on MB much at all; just this weekend he referred to it as a trigger, which he does not need.

Does that mean that all BS find MB to be a trigger? Of course not. Many are helped. It is simply my H’s experience. Somehow I don’t think that he is unique, although he may be in the minority.

Back to HHW, she noted that her H was a two pack a day smoker, and drank a six pack every night. Now neither of those habits would be conducive to ME feeling romantic. I detest the smell of alcohol and cigarettes. Maybe that is partially what is holding HHW back from feeling attracted to her H. Just my opinion, based upon my likes and dislikes. In any case, it seems to me, based upon these habits, that HHW’s H has some addictive tendencies. And please, please, don’t even bother to say that he’s drinking because of her A. That won’t wash in NA. He owns his choices, end of story.

I liked techie’s suggestion that HHW give her H some better options of things to do with her. Great advice, because it's not enough to complain, one must offer appealing alternatives. I think that KMF is spot-on in his suggestion that rather than take the stance of absolutely not giving up the MB forum, that he acknowledge that she may have a point, and that they work from there to determine what is a reasonable amount of time to spend reading/posting.

To LostBoy and HHW, good luck with your recovery. It can be done. HHW, IMO you have a H who is really willing to work with you. Recognize that and be thankful and be patient. Do not make demands. Treat him kindly and I suspect he will be kind to you.