I believe it was Noodle who recently eloquently noted that "wayward" does not necessarily mean "actively in an affair". Wayward is a state of mind. Wayward people only see the faults in their spouses. Wayward people are not satisfied with anything a spouse does. Wayward people are never satisfied. I remember my husband in his wayward state all too well. It was a nightmare. I didn't know what I did to cause it.

However when the BS is in a wayward state of mind, the FWS knows exactly what caused it, and all the blame is on them. I imagine that's pretty painful to a truly remorseful FWS.

A BS in a wayward state of mind, cannot and will not recover.

My one remaining living grandmother divorced my grandfather the year I was born (1963), and to this day she continues to be a wayward BS. She has never moved past it. The man has been dead since the 80s, he had remarried, someone new, not one of his affair partners. Still her angry rants have been a favorite subject throughout her post-divorce life. Throughout my childhood and my entire life as well. Her anger has poisoned every moment of her life, and fractured her family.

That's the writing on the wall.

The reaction of your GM is sad...but it certainly shows the devastation that an affair can bring to someones life.

I have something I live by in my life...

Never let the ****** win!

I do not give the people in my life... or now out of my life, the power to take away my ability to love, trust, smile, laugh or just have fun. If I did, they would have succeeded in stealing away all that I have left. I have so many excuses for not ever loving or trusting again... but I have a good reason to never get bitter about lifes "curveballs." Me.

MEDC

I know an elderly woman in the area where I live whose ex-H left her years ago (when she was in her middle 30's) to marry a younger woman. He left her with 3 young children at the time. After all these years, she is still angry with her ex-H (who is still married to the younger woman) and therefore never forgave him in a way that could probably allow her to move forward with her live and found happiness with someone else again. I can certainly understand this woman’s pain and have empathy for her position and what she has went through, but now, because of her continued bitterness and general mistrust/skepticism in people after what her H and the woman did to her…and because of her choice to remain this way after all these years…she lives an unhappy and lonely life.

This type of BS isn't wayward in the 'given' sense of wayward as used to describe the WS.

This sounds more like a hurt BS who has allowed the WS to hurt him/her forever. This type of BS has NOT moved forward. Rather this type of BS has stayed stuck in the angry mode and not allowed themselves to work through the stages of grieving.

Is it justified? Yes it is but not practical. At some point the hurt of the BS left unchecked becomes toxic to all around them.

This can happen in life even in other non-A areas. It is how bad we let stupid situations affect us that causes an event or situation to become toxic.

I just learned today of a co-worker who was fired after over 20+ years of service. Very dedicated employee and who was rewarded by losing her pension and employment. I know this employee did their best but the company thought it best to terminate the employment. Not a pretty picture and of course that has lowered the moral tremendously. Still I know this employee left knowing the best employment was given and now the decision is making the decision makers look like they should. Hm......

Does this employee have the ability to allow this situation to make his/her life toxic? Yes. Will they? No. That person has my respect. I don't have the details but knowing they are willing to move forward, gains my respect for that person.

Sometimes people refuse to let go and the cost goes high. It is sad one livs their life with such pain. Though I can say, I do understand why. There are events in my life where even in non-A situations I am working hard NOT to allow the bad decisions of some close to me NOT to have a toxic effect in my life. I tell you, it is a hard thing to do. Very hard. Giving them back their guilt has worked for me.

Sometimes that means exposure which can make people very uncomfortable. ;( But it is either that or me carrying the guilt and ruining my life. No can do.

So back to the statement of a wayward BS. I say that is not an accurate description. More like a toxic BS or one who will not move forward.

For those here who have learned MB principals, may we not allow that to happen to us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Plan A allows the BS a way to recover themselves, if not their marriage too. Plan A allows a BS to look within, to be loving in the face of assault thereby giving them a chance to make amends for and change any unloving behavior they may have shown in their marriage...it is the beginning of self-forgiveness, which is the basis of being able to forgive others.

It also allow the BS a way to regain (or gain) self-respect, another beginning aspect of forgiveness.

If a BS can remain in a poisonous, angry, blaming state they never have to look within, and they are never able to practice forgiveness.

Even the WS has to eventually look within and forgive themselves or they too will self-destruct, maybe in a different way, or maybe in an angry, blaming way refusing to let their Spouse get close to them or to love them. Oh, that's what you said M4L. LOL

As quoted by Abraham Lincoln (I think) "People are about as happy as they make their mind up to be"

Edited to protect the innocent. Said something that may have been hurtful to newly BS's, who are rightfully angry and hurt.

Mates4Life - I don't think that the title "Wayward" fits with a Betrayed Spouse. I DO understand what you are saying about a "state of mind" and you are correct in that description, but "Wayward" as it is used on MB is specific to adultery and, thus, seems inappropriate to describe a Spouse who is "not meeting the needs of their spouse."

That seems to be more of a way to "justify" someone who IS a Wayward Spouse from doing what it is that IS being "Wayward."

There is no question, at least in my mind, that a spouse who is so self-centered that they never have a marriage of "equals" is NOT performing the role of a husband or a wife. It is much more of a "world-centered" view than a "God-centered" worldview, and puts the "self" at the pinnacle and everything revolves around "self" and "what's in it for me."

Forgiveness goes "hand-in-hand" with that. "Forgiving someone as God has forgiven me" does not come into play, because such a person does not see themselves as needing forgiveness from anyone, much less granting it to someone else. In effect, they are "Users" of everyone that they see as "helping" them in some way and are "Discarders" of anything and everyone who they cannot "use."

When you say, "However when the BS is in a wayward state of mind, the FWS knows exactly what caused it, and all the blame is on them. I imagine that's pretty painful to a truly remorseful FWS," there may be some truth in there, but more likely it is a BS "working through" the immense harm caused by the FWS's actions. IF the BS is a person who is so "self-centered" to begin with, then the ability to "Forgive" and work on rebuilding a loving marriage is very difficult, if not impossible. But, nonetheless, that "BS state of mind" is still no excuse for adultery, nor can it be used to call the BS "Wayward."

A BS who responds to adultery by their spouse by having a "revenge affair," WOULD then also be considered a Wayward Spouse, but not one who did not themselves commit adultery.

The "cause" of this "uncaring" position of a spouse that you are calling "Wayward" is very simple...it's called sin and a fallen sin-nature. Suffice it to say that not everyone believes in God, or in sin, or in the reality of evil, but that doesn't change the truth that those things DO actually exist. These "experiences", one would think, might just be a "wake up call" to examine just what it is that someone believes in and how that belief affects their life, their choices in life, and how they relate to others, including a spouse. A BS in this state that you are calling "Wayward" might really be in a "marital unfaithfulness" state of mind, and that, too, is not what God intended for marriage. But it's still not "Wayward" as the word is used around here and there is "blurring" that could happen if a specific term is expanded to include more "generalities." The resulting thought process could easily become one such as, "well, my spouse is Wayward in all things except sex, therefore I am justified in being Wayward in just that one area of sex with someone other than my Wayward spouse."

It would seem that a person who is so self-centered, so self-oriented, so selfish is NOT "marriage material" to begin with, if for no other reason than a marriage, by definition, requires both a sharing and a willing sacrifice of some "self" oriented things to the spouse's "needs." Marriage is NOT "all about me." It is about being in a "one flesh" state of mind.

And THAT might actually be the "writing on the wall."

God bless.