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I hope no MBers are affected.

If you haven't heard, a campus shooting. 20 confirmed dead, at least 20 injured.

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Another tragic example of man's inhamity toward man. Horrible...and for what??? Speculation at this point is gunman was looking for his GF. I pray for those families.

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32 dead. 29 injured.

There were 50 cops on campus after the first shooting....2 hours later the shooter killed 31 more...

How could that have happened?

Last edited by Marshmallow; 04/16/07 12:09 PM.
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I was on that campus once when I was stationed in VA. If memory serves, it's large and spread out. Fifty cops would have no chance of controlling the entire campus; five hundred might, but it would be iffy. Also, a weapon fired inside one building couldn't possibly heard inside another building on the other side of the campus.

It wouldn't be that hard for the guy to stuff a gun in his jacket and walk calmly out of the first building and saunter to the opposite end of the campus. What draws attention is a person, or persons, running, behaving strangely, etc. Avoid that, and an individual fades into the background.

What truly concerns me are the reports some number of the students kneeled down in a row and the killer walked down the line executing them. What a pity there was no one there to yell, "Let's roll," a la Flight 93.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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Just heartbreaking. Honest to God.

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This is a nightmare. My DD who is in the Air Force and stationed oversees right now has several close friends who are students there. Also several children from my Church attend school there.


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The students at the campus where I work gets very aggressive, rebellious and arrogant from time to time when they experience difficulty in succeeding to force their will and ridiculous requests on management. During such times they start to“toi-toi” and act violent. There has been many incidents in the past during such occasions where they have caused serious damage to the institution’s property; staff’s personal property (vehicles) and has put staff and uninvolved students life in danger and threatened them. I know of at least two incidents on this campus where the staff members were threatened with a pistol or knife and were held hostage in an office or class room. Now, my fear (and the expressed fear of other personnel at this campus) is that the incidents on the campus in Virginia, might encourage or serve as an aggressor for similar behavior at campuses in our country and/or other countries some time.

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Just stopping by for a moment. I'm a VT alum. It's a beautiful and tranquil place. Many of my classes were in Norris Hall. This event sends chills down my spine.

Now I'm glad my son chose to attend William & Mary and pursue pre-med rather than engineering at VT. Otherwise, he may have been in Norris Hall yesterday morning. But, I have former classmates with children enrolled there now.

WAT

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I know this might not be popular with some...but the presidents of the universities in Virginia helped get the General Assembly to vote down a bill that would have allowed those with concealed carry permits to also carry on campus (Virginia allows concealed carry by permit in most places in Virginia).

I guarantee that if some other folks (the GOOD guys) had been armed when this went down, then there wouldnt be 32 dead. My oldest son is looking towards VT when he graduates (he wants to go into engineering). If he was there (and armed), I guarantee that this guy would have gotten off no more than three rounds before my son would have put him down. I have trained all of my kids on the proper use (and safety) of firearms.

Some folks say "well, these are kids...we cant let them have weapons." Oh, really?? But I regularly handed wepaon, ammo, bombs, tanks, etc to 18-20 year olds all the time in the military. And they do just fine!

Also, it wasnt long ago that kids owned their own firearms and could come home from school and go hunting. Drive to many high schools around Blacksburg, VA (which is where VT is located) and you can see gun racks and guns sitting in the back windows of trucks. These kids go to school, and many times head off into the hills and woods of Virginia to hunt or target practice. And up until the last 30-40 years...there wasnt a problem.

So, either we are raising kids today that dont have the maturity of the kids 100 years ago...or we are babying them.

Anyway, my rant is over now. I just wanted to point out that if the General Assembly had allowed concealed carry of weapons on campus, then this situation could have been avoided. At least, the students and faculty would have had a fighting chance!


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MM.. not for nothing... but while they may not have been 32 dead in this circumstance... and that is speculation...over the years there would certainly be (also speculation) a combined total of significantly more than 32 by arming more students.

I can tell you as someone that worked the streets of Philadelphia... murder capital of the world... that more guns is NOT the answer.

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Oh.... and there are times MM that your views certainly confuse me. You are obviously very much in favor of what you would consider a strict adherence to the constitution...remember, the document written by slave owners...BUT I thought you answered to a higher power...and I find it inconceivable to think that Christ would suggest that arming students would be the answer to these types of problems.

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the answer here is that that school should have been in a total lockdown until they were SURE that there was no more danger. They speculated and the second incident was allowed to happen as a result. But in all reality... this man could have gone on a rampage in his dorm just as easily during a lockdown. It is just a sad situation.

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MM.. not for nothing... but while they may not have been 32 dead in this circumstance... and that is speculation...over the years there would certainly be (also speculation) a combined total of significantly more than 32 by arming more students.

I can tell you as someone that worked the streets of Philadelphia... murder capital of the world... that more guns is NOT the answer.

Guns arent the problem in Philadelphia!


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Oh.... and there are times MM that your views certainly confuse me. You are obviously very much in favor of what you would consider a strict adherence to the constitution...remember, the document written by slave owners...BUT I thought you answered to a higher power...and I find it inconceivable to think that Christ would suggest that arming students would be the answer to these types of problems.

I do answer to a higher power. Where in Scripture does it say self-defense isnt authorized? Where does it say that the military isnt authorized?

God even authorized the killing of entire villages by Israel. So, I dont think God is against killing. He is against murder!


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Such a horrible si2ation.

I wish that "murder suicide" perpetrators would start with the suicide, instead.

There's no accountability, once the murderer has removed himself.

...or is there? Wrongful death suits against the murderer's surviving family or guardians, perhaps? A deterrent for fu2re such si2ations?

Maybe we all should be required 2 bear arms at all times?

Maybe tactical nukes?

-ol' 2long

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the answer here is that that school should have been in a total lockdown until they were SURE that there was no more danger. They speculated and the second incident was allowed to happen as a result. But in all reality... this man could have gone on a rampage in his dorm just as easily during a lockdown. It is just a sad situation.

Maybe! But, have you ever been to VT. It is a small city. Want to try to shut down a small city in a two hour time frame? Aint gonna happen!

Added to the fact was that this lowlife was a student. He would have easily slipped from the dorm where he killed his girlfriend and RA, back into the university population and then proceeded to his next intended target spot (Norris Hall) before the police even arrived at the dorm. And there, he could wait until he decided to strike again. In the meantime, the students get locked down (which would work out great for him running thru the halls and going into classrooms and shooting people).

I agree that notice should have been given earlier. It would have saved soem students from even arriving at the campus. But that would not have stopped the shootings at Norris Hall.

The only thing that would have stopped those shootings would have been someone putting a few rounds into this guy.


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Interesting...and I've got to agree with MM, as another ex-combat vet myself.

I was wondering how he managed to kill even 32 unarmed people. After talking it through with a friend, all I can think of is that the vast majority became so afraid they went into paralysis, like a rabbit or deer does.

It surprises me that he killed that many, even though they were unarmed. A bullet isn't an automatic kill. I've seen people who were shot several times still get up and run, or continue to fight for a considerable time. I was a bit surprised that he killed that many without someone disarming him before succumbing to their wounds.

And I agree with MM...it was exactly for THIS kind of reason the constitution allows for the 'right to bear arms'. Making guns illegal just means that the criminals will continue to use them. A single, trained person at the right place at the right time armed with an appropriate weapon could have ended this nearly before it began.

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Such a horrible si2ation.

I wish that "murder suicide" perpetrators would start with the suicide, instead.

There's no accountability, once the murderer has removed himself.

...or is there? Wrongful death suits against the murderer's surviving family or guardians, perhaps? A deterrent for fu2re such si2ations?

Maybe we all should be required 2 bear arms at all times?

Maybe tactical nukes?

-ol' 2long

I'm with 2Long on this. I blame the shooter, and his parents. Kids dont get like this without something going wrong at home. And either they were bad parents...or had a bad kid, which they let out into society! If I thought any of my kids were a danger to society...they would have to worry about me! No way I end up being that parent of a kid that does this.

Ever read the backgrounds on these "winners?" Parents that are never there or are abusive. Parents that arent involved. Drug use and alcohol use. All of these murderers had home lives that werent right.

As a military guy for over twenty years, I can tell you that I saw first hand how parents are failing many of their kids. I had these young men show up and were clueless about many things. I ended up having to teach them things momma and daddy should have done.

As I said, if all the good guys were armed, this wouldnt happen!

And...remember, we all used to carry around weapons all the time before this society got all soft. We think we can count on police to protect us. Wrong. Most often, the police arrive after the fact...after the damage is done.

It is not the universities or the police or the president or the governor or anyone else's responsibility to protect my family.

It is mine.


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i agree with MM on this one.

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MM... your experience as a combat vet does NOT translate into any expertise on the streets of our country. And YES MM, guns are the problem in Philly... too many of them out there... and it is a VERY easy city to get a permit to carry. Very easy.

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