<shrug>

I'll walk around carrying my weapon with me everywhere I legally can, knowing that I won't just be hoping something evil doesn't happen to me and mine...I'll have the tool I need to make the evil far less likely.

MM:

Even better would be the potential risk one puts their own family in by taking other people's lives.

Wrongful death suits "worked" (arguably 2 a pathetic degree, but better than nothing) when O.J. got acquitted for multiple murder.

But it sounds like the gunman's family, if he has one, isn't in the U.S.

-ol' 2long

Maybe I should, 2long. Those people are mental patients.

Would be interesting to try!

Well, here in Texas, the legislature has taken care of that problem. The Governor just signed a law taking away the stupidity of a wrongful death suit in behalf of criminals killed by the home owner when the criminals were in the act of committing a break in, home invasion, etc.

No, I'm pretty sure they are here.

I think I heard it reported that they own a dry cleaning business here.

~ Marsh

If I werent a Virginian, I'd be a Texan!

What happened yesterday is an absolute overwhelming act committed by a young man. We can not change it nor am I here to diplomat to carry a firearm or not *to each is own*, The first thing I thought about was how pittiful my problems are compared to those who lost loved ones or friends. So to them I say bless be, you are in my thoughts to those arguing over something they can not change shame on you, but no shame in trying to make the world a safer place for all of us our children and grandchildren to come.

And we'd welcome you here, MM! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes it pays to look at boundary conditions. There are two obvious extrema here:

1. Everyone always has a loaded gun within arms reach.

2. No one has a gun except police. Maybe, like London’s Bobbies, not even them.

There are comparative data in both cases, although data relative the first case tends to be from a long time ago. Frontier justice kind of data.

If everyone had a gun, I think the incidence of violent crime of all kinds might go down. Maybe a lot. There would still be murder-suicides using guns. But probably few mass killings.

I grew up near Virginia City Mt. where the Vigilantes originated. You know, the term Vigilante justice has gotten an undeserved bad name. These guys banded together because the sheriff and all his cronies were the murdering bad guys. There was no one else to protect the populace but themselves. Not even the federal government could get there in time. They captured the criminals they could and shot the ones who resisted. They hanged the murders they caught and exiled the rest. They all owned their own guns too.

If no one legally had a gun at all, you would in fact still have guns. It is impossible to find them all. And I know how to make one from scratch. Gang members know how to use pipes. It’s easy. So people who specifically want a gun to kill people would in fact still acquire firearms of one kind or another.

Everything else, everything we have right now, is a sort of superposition of these two boundary conditions.

I don’t think there is an optimum social solution. I really don’t.

Well, except we mentally evaluate everyone every six months or so and preventatively lock up anyone even remotely suspicious. Yeah, we might do that. I get to be the evaluator though.

It’s a hard and dangerous world. Always has been and always will be. It’s even harder and more dangerous if you walk around like defenseless prey.


I just read it started with the guy’s girlfriend. There’s the problem. Outlaw girl-friends!


With prayers,

It's not my analogy, MM, it's yours. And it is not a good one.

GC

As well...Texans are good people and are welcome in the Old Dominion anytime! So, you have an open door also!

It's those Yankees we have to keep an eye on!

Huh?? (Mortarman again scratching his head) Maybe I should have not used the term "analogy." Let me try to do this right this time...

Using your way, then we should shut down our poilice departments because we would prefer everyone just behave. Or shut down our military because we prefer that everyone will not want to kill us or blow us up.

Deeply Saddened & Horrified to my core.

Such Great Potential Gone.

Lost forever.

Sympathies & Thoughts with the Survivors, The Families, The Friends, All the Staff, Neighbours & Friends.

Let us hang our heads in common grief.

May They All Rest in Peace.


______________________________________

Re Guns:

Guns are designed for only ONE purpose.

I was taught how to handle weapons & respect LIFE.

I love Life, & respect the Right To Life, so purpose have zero pupose for a gun.

We do not need to kill our food it is readily available in the butchers.

They only time I have considered it reasonable was from a Vetinary's perspective & that was to tranquilise a animal.

The soldiers here used to use 'Rubber Bullets' they'd still maim, take an eye out, whatever they thought at the time 'reasonable force' - they were 'not supposed' to kill.

Our Police Force is UNarmed.

Only the Specials carry weapons.

That is common knowledge.

It is extremely RARE that an officer (1 in 12 years) or civilian is ever shot in the Republic.

My personal opinion is poverty & single parenting do not lead automatically to murderous outcomes.

Low (or exagerated) sense of self
Lack of understanding for the Real value of a life
Ignorance in the Finality for the Individual & the Consequences for the Survivors et al
A mistaken belief in their rights/justice/authority

I think a murderer does not just happen, he or she is groomed by their environment, as is a life giver.

Anyone can get a gun if they really want one.

Unless I encounter a zealot or druggie, I do believe an agressor with any weapon is most likely to be nervous & unsure of their own ability to get whatever it is they seek on initial approach. That is the window to decide if it is likely you will live if you difuse, resist, succumb or run.

What I have experienced is an aggressor when confronted with an other's weapon becomes even more 'commited'.

Soldiering is so different to civilian world, Armies are either fighters or peace keepers.

I accept the military personnel who have spoken are solid in their current belief system.

"You can take a man out of the army but you can not take the army out of the man"
Food for thought:

Giving citizens the right to walk down the street with weapons seems disasterous for no other reason than the very fact they are civilians with weapons designed to kill. Why would anyone in any country want to do that?

Incidently, my father was a weapons instructor for eons, wrote books on the subject, I still did not actually ever see a real gun outside of an army complex until the first time we entered America.

Any see the movie "Bowling for Columbine"

The Dept of Alcohol & Tobacco look after Weapons???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Back...I could not agree with you more. My heart and prayers have gone out to those that grieve today, and for those that are injured.

My intention in this discussion is to just to talk about solutions so these types of things happen less, and with less severity. What has happeneed...has happened. We cannot go back. But we can learn from it.

Mort Yes that is kinda what I was trying to say,,,,
And of course everyone is entitled to their opinion I would just hope it is done in good taste.
I personally would not want to be a family member and read some of this stuff
could've would've should'ves
I do believe in high gun control, I have never bought a gun but have inherited them and kept them (well hidden). Would I use one I don't think so unless my life or families like depended on it. I worked on an blance for many years and seen too much. If guns are banned bad people will find them, kinda like drugs they are banned but people find them. Shoot what am I talking about better gun control, just rid the world of idiots. ****I'm shutting up now*****:X

MM... and others that think that more guns in the hands of citizens is the answer... frankly, you know not of what you speak. Look at murder rates for countries with extreme control on guns.... then look at the US. Look at a place like Philly that has very easy gun laws...the murder rate is the highest in the country. I have used my hands to stop the bleeding from this warped type of logic.
The answer to criminals carrying guns is to lock them up forever for their crimes.
More crimes of passion would result in death if more people were armed. I have seen it first hand...and have had the blood on my hands.
I say this being a person that carries a gun with me everywhere in the country except for airplanes... where it is checked with my luggage.
The right to bear arms does not stipulate WHICH type of arms we can bear...no matter what the nuts at the NRA would have you believe.

MEDC

I can, at the same time, believe that not carrying a weapon is a legitimate way to contribute to a safer and more peaceful world, and also believe that there is such a thing as the legitimate use of violence. There's no conflict.

GC

I agree. May the Lord comfort them on this day and every day forward.


True.


What if you could save some innocent child's life by using a gun? Or save your own? Guns have a purpose. They actually have two. In self defense, they allow even the weak victim to be powerful enough to fend off an attacker. The second reason...which is the whole intent of this right in the U.S., is to be able to shoot at foreign invaders OR our own government, if need be. Our rights mean nothing, if the people have no way to enforce them!


Okay. But some of us still like to hunt!


Okay. I dont agree, but I can respect your position!


No. I am a former Army first sergeant and I can tell you...when we fire our weapons, we are trying to kill the other guy on the other side of the battlefield. We are supposed to kill...that is our job.


And the bad guys are armed. How sad!


What makes the Specials so special? They shouldnt be allowed to carry either!!


I am sure it is.


Republic of what?


No, not automatically. But they are factors in almost EVERY case!!


Which goes back to the family. The parents. They should have taught this stuff. They were negligent and did not!


Exactly!


You are correct.


They are nervous because they have no idea if you will be able to stop them. You might be packing!


Never seen that before! Believe me, after over twenty years of military and law enforcement experience, this does not happen. Almost always, when an attacker is confronted with overwhelming force, they run. The only time they become "committed" is when they are cornered.


Armies kill people and break their stuff. That is their mission.


Sort of like saying soldiers are mind-numbed robots, huh?


Because it is their right. Because they have the right to protect themselves. Because the government, nor others, have the right to take away an American's Constitutional rights. Rights dont come from the government. The government's "rights" come from the people.


And that is fine. To each his own.


Why would I?


Not sure what that meant???

I have no idea what your points are, Mary, but here are a few notes on your post.

Yes, I saw "Bowling For Columbine." All of what was suggested in that movie has been shown to be bovine scatology. The correct motives of the killers have even been noted (and recently so) in documentaries on TV channels that are usually quite liberal, such as "Arts & Entertainment (A&E)."

Armies exist to break things and kill bad people. They do not exist to keep the peace. That's a function of law enforcement.

For myself, I wasn't in the U.S. Army. My father was, and I honor him for his service in WWII and Korea, wars which returned or kept unknown millions of human beings free of bondage that would have been imposed by dictators. My service to this nation was in the hugely superior United States Air Force. (Sorry, MM...had to take my shot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) The U.S. Army and the U.S. Air Force protect the finest nation on the face of the planet from those who would tear it down.

Civilians walking down the street with weapons ensure muslim (or other) terrorists, maniac killers, etc., are not the only ones on that street with weapons.

Please read the U.S government statistics MM quoted above. Criminals are deterred from committing crimes if they believe they may be resisted. They do not become more "committed" unless you are speaking of being committed to prison.

I have no idea where you live. I suspect if your soldiers use "rubber bullets," you're in a republic whose existence is guaranteed by treaties with nations…such as the United States.

Yes, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms does indeed have jurisdiction over the illegal use of firearms. So what?