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That's from a treatise written by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, Marsh, in a book entitled On Killing. Thanks, LH. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Mortarman said: Look at a place like the UK which has a higher rate of home break-ins (because the robbers know no one has a gun!!). I read there are now knife control laws in the UK. And speaking of break-ins in the UK... The UK parliament is considering legislation that would authorize bailiffs to break into the homes of motorists accused of not paying parking tickets. Under legislation currently making its way through the House of Commons, bailiffs would seize items out of the home in order to pay off the amount owed in tickets, plus hefty fees. Any homeowner attempting to stop the bailiff would face up to a year in prison. ~ Marsh
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Just a comment about the discussion (my opinions are stated quite a few pages back at this point.) Gun control discussions are very often fruitless. This is one of them. There are a couple of reasons for that.
The first is that this is one of those issues where people have made up their minds and are looking for evidence to support their position rather than actually searching for the truth. No bit of research or evidence that might possibly contract to one's position can be ignored. The second is that this is one of those issues where people need to be "right" rather than be "heard." Perhaps that's because so many people seem to know the answer.
You can often identify such discussions by incredibly long point by point dissection other other posts, by repetition of "known facts" without citation of the actual source. Of course that's because people are just looking for ammunition (so to speak) rather than the truth.
Finally, I will repeat myself -- which I try not to do on these kinds of threads unless I feel that my point was not heard or understood. In this case, there is so much volume I think it may have been lost. The issue is not whether or not we would be safer with more liberal or more conservative gun laws. The issue is protection against governmental tyranny. The kind of event that happened at Virginia Tech is the tragic price we pay for that protection.
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Meanwhile there are 32 families who will never be the same again.
I deal with students all day every day. They are sweet, they are funny, they are young, they are hopeful, they are infuriating, they are bright, they give you hope for the world.
It's just an awful, awful senseless tragedy.
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You cannot count on law abiding citizens to remain so...such as this person that committed this act...or others that would use a gun in the heat of the moment (crime of passion) that might otherwise be settled through other means. So, we must treat every American as a criminal? We cant be trusted? Who gets to decide who is trusted? The government? why do they get the trust and the people dont? You have this backwards, MEDC. The Founders knew what many today have forgotten...it is not the people that need to be mistrusted...it is the government. Look... I have lived this stuff....seen it first hand... I won't question MM on his knowledge of war time battles...he is well versed in that. I am equally knowledgable regarding the impact of guns on the streets... we live in a gun culture and the result is too many deaths. The guns arent the problem, MEDC. I have been involved for almost 10 years in this. As I said before, I was assigned for almost 10 years to the BATF. I was responsible for gathering all of the intel on weapons crimes. And the information does not support your ascertain. Guns are tools...nothing else. The issue is bad people! If there is a high murder rate in an area, it isnt because there are alot of guns there. It is because there are a lot of bad people there!! If it were because there were a lot of guns there, then communities where there are a lot of guns would have a high murder rate, etc. And that doesnt happen!!! You are trying to find causality where it doesnt exist. The cause is bad people who live in the same area...thus the high murder rate! We have always had guns. And we havent had this problem. The problem isnt the guns...it is the people. It is good people who do nothing. It is parents who bring bad people into this world by their lack of parenting. These are the facts. I could go into the statistics and all of what has gone on in the U.S. over the last 15 years and show you that what you are saying just doesnt bear up.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Okay, Mebe. So you'd rather discuss who Dallas should draft in the first round? Get to it, then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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really... there is 6 months of training for a concealed weapon? wow!
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Who cares what the world thinks?? Most of the world today goes to bed in relative safety because of the sweat, blood and tears of the American soldier. I could care less how they do things in France, or Australia, or Britain or anywhere else. We didnt become the greatest nation ever to exist on this planet by copying the world!!
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Jen, Can I come live in your beautiful, peaceful country? It's scary over here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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I can’t remember where I read it, but there is a saying that most people are sheep, a few are sheepdogs and some are wolves. Now the wolf and the sheepdog have some things in common... they both exist outside the flock and they both work on instinct, but there is at least one critical distinction between them...how they behave towards the sheep.
Now, in this case, a wolf got into the flock and many of the sheep are dead...
I don't understand the desire to muzzle the sheepdog.
~ Marsh Brilliant! We need more sheep dogs!!
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Kiwi, with respect, I don't think this was a "tragedy." I understand your meaning, but...to me...a tragedy is what happens when a typhoon destroys a village on the coast. In my mind, tragedies are things that can't be avoided. What happened yesterday was an act of pure evil committed on innocents who had no part in his hatred of this country and the people in it. (Perhaps you haven't yet heard he left a suicide note?)
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I viewed this thread off and on all day. I would ask you all to look at one fact and then apply it to other circumstances and see what you come up with.
It's estimated that there are millions of guns in the U.S., yet only a small fraction are ever used in a crime. Why should we punish the vast majority of firearms owners for the misuse by the few? We're not talking about several percentage of folks misuing them we're talking about fractions of a percent are being misued.
Prior to the approval of the concealed carry laws in Florida, car jackings were quite common. Once concealed carry became legal, the number dropped dramatically.
We don't want to be like the Europeans, look how many world wars they've had. Our right to bear arms is only one of may reasons that hasn't happened here.
My handle might give you some clue to my interests.
xring
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I carry a weapon as I was trained to use it for the police department. The government recognizes the difference in training for a law enforcement officer than a military person... therefore we have been granted the right ... even after retirement to carry them anywhere in the country. All other license to carry are specific to a state or even a county. Granted the right??? Granted the right!!!! I cant believe I even bothered serving in the Army to protect a society where people think the government grants rights to us. Our Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves. Governments dont grant rights...except to slaves! I am not a slave...I am an American. My government is given rights by me...not the other way around. As far as your request for me to supply stats... no need to... watch the news... its on there every single day.
And while I agree that this is the greatest nation on earth... we certainly can still learn to do a lot of things better than we do.... abortion and gun control come to mind. Let's not bring abortion into this!! That is an entirely different subject (and thread).
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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I am actually considered an expert on this subject by whom? By the United States government.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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MEDC, please show me the police academy curriculum where firearms training lasts six months. I know MB doesn't like URLs to outside agencies shown in posts, so please feel free to send that info to the email address shown in my profile.
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And speaking of break-ins in the UK...
[quote] The UK parliament is considering legislation that would authorize bailiffs to break into the homes of motorists accused of not paying parking tickets. Under legislation currently making its way through the House of Commons, bailiffs would seize items out of the home in order to pay off the amount owed in tickets, plus hefty fees. Any homeowner attempting to stop the bailiff would face up to a year in prison. Thank God that aint here!! Because there is no way anyone is breaking down my door! Not without being shot!
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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No, I hadn't heard that. I meant "tragedy" as you understood my meaning as in well, tragic. I do agree - pure evil.
As 2long said, why don't they do the suicide part first?
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If they did, they wouldn't be evil, just deluded. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
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MM: I was going 2 stay off... but then: My government is given rights by me...not the other way around. followed, only one post later, by: Quote:
I am actually considered an expert on this subject
by whom?
By the United States government. So, you named yourself expert? [edit] End of discussion... -ol' 2long
Last edited by 2long; 04/17/07 03:49 PM.
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firearms training occured throughout the 6 months of the academy cuuriculum... am I here to prove myself to you??? I don't think so... please show me where I actually give a rats butt if you believe me or not.
medc.
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Okay, Mebe. So you'd rather discuss who Dallas should draft in the first round? Get to it, then. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Well, I am rescinding my invitation to you, LH, to come to Virginia...as you appear to be a Dallas Cowboys' fan. Them kinda people just arent allowed in Redskin country.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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