How can you find love again in a M when you just don't feel it? I've been somewhat of a lurker and my original story is here http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1 Be warned it's long. Never in my life did I think the above post would be "my story". We have been married almost 12 years (HS sweethearts, together for 20 years total) and have 6 yo b/g twins.

Long story short, my H was diagnosed with bipolar disorder last may and is just now getting on the correct meds and stabilized. Dr’s have worked with him for the last year, but apparantly he’s been taking “other drugs” with these meds, which prevented them from working. Truth be told, he's probably had BPD all along, which caused most of our problems. (drugs, excessive $$ spending, affairs, gambling). H has NEVER been a partner in our M. 90% of our responsibilities were on my shoulders. I'm not proud, but I had an EA that has been over for about 1.5 years.

My H finally admitted he had a drug problem (I’d suspected as well as the dr’s) and went to a drug detox center in January for a methadone addiction. He is clean now. He is working with a pretty good psychiatrist for the BPD and again seems to be more normal and stabilized.

He is somewhat of a different person on meds, more calm, less volatile, helps more around the house, kinder, wants to work on the M, is trying to do his best. I see that, I realize that, but after everything I've been through I just don't feel it. What I feel is guilt for wanting to leave. Guilt is what is holding me here. I do care about him and I do feel love for him, but it's more of a "motherly" love. Not marital love.

We have 2 kids, he's a good dad and they love him dearly. My question is, how can I love him? I want to, I've tried but I'm just so drained from the war that I've been through with him that I am not able to be receptive. I've read HNHN, Love Busters, Fall in Love Stay in Love, Not just Friends. I understand the basics behind all of these books. I just don't feel it - I'm trying to be receptive but I'm just not.

I want to love my H, I want to keep a family intact but so far it has been at the expense of myself and my happiness and at times my sanity. Of course I will/would/am putting my kids and their happiness first and have chosen to remain M. But how can I find some peace and happiness for myself to at least be a part of this M? H and I have been to many, many counselors – many, many times for both MC and IC. The only advice they can give me is get out. I’ve obviously not done that. In all fairness, the advice was given before H was properly diagnosed and stabilized with BPD meds. But I do know with BPD that it's a lifelong struggle and meds need to be carefully monitored for life.

I realize this is an infidelity forum. I realize that there are some here who may want to come @ me with both barrels for my EA. But I am here to ask for help, direction. I also realize that it is possible to regain love. BUT I've never had the RIGHT kind of love for H. It's always been "motherly" how can I change that now that he's finally acting closer to a partner. What I am looking for here is some something that will click or change my thought process. Thank you for your time and your input.

Callie..

are you in Ala-non....you must get yourself there if not...

what you are experiencing is normal normal normal for the non addicted spouse in recovery....

there are many layers of what you are going through...and many who have and are going through the same thing....

one the hugest factors occuring in your life is change...
and change is scary...

known is becoming the unknown...

you are experiencing role changes
you are experiencing the surface of ingrained resentment...

why now ??!!!!!!!!!!! your brain will rally at his changes

why do these things now when for years and years you did not
your brain undermines in thoughts all the changes you dreamed for...wished for...mourned for and screamed for....

you NEED a support group...ALA-NON is your key answer...

his changing means you must change as well..
change again is hard and scary

how can learn to trust these new behaviors....
how can you rely on someone whom for years you couldnt and wouldn't

the good news is you can..
with love, lots of hope...and full recovery for YOU...

there is resentment as he suddenly beleives what the experts tell him...as you have said the same thing for years....

your burdon is common....
though heavy...

We are all flawed and broken.....and I suggest you seek great humility in assisting your husband for the first time EVER in his life becoming a man, husband friend and love...

I suggest you pray hard for him...a child of God for who years was lost in his own chemical imbalance and also his own CHOICES and ACTS of terror on the family....

I hold an image of my husband dear to my heart every day...so that even when most outraged..I acknowledge first he belongs to God...and is like a child to him...

I do this NOT to excuse his choices...or actions...(also note that I am married to a honorable man whose actions have always been noble and for the betterment of our family)
but we still have our marital bumps....

keeping this thought and vision of my husband in my brain assists me in dealing with him even in crisis with respect and love....

begin by offering heart felt prayers for your husband..
who is scared as well and whose burdoned even more with facing head on all the damage he has caused....

are you in ala-non...and if not today seems like a great day to begin...

ARK

Callie,
may I suggest a book called "Co-Dependent No More" by Melodie Beatty? it changed how I looked at how I was behaving.

for years, I treated my BPD FWH as his Mother instead of his Wife/Partner (doing all childcare/housework/yard maintenance/finances/social obligations/etc.) I now see how my actions were crippling both of us. yes, meds do help A LOT, but as my FWH is learning thru therapy, it is about personal responsibility (theirs as much as ours).

your FWH is working on his by getting clean. but your work (& mine) is just as important: learning to treat him as an equal.

as I work on actively treating my FWH as a true partner, he is responding better...and more actively trying to meet my needs (which I think is what you & I are really looking for.)

please let me know what you think about the book.

hugs,
cgw

Thank you so much. CGW - I am partway through the co-dependent no more book. I'd actually had it for a while. I realize that I am co-dep. I realize that our roles are changing. I've always WANTED them to change. I just don't know how to act. Of course I don't want to go back to the way things were, but I would have thought that with the role changes that feelings for H would come back but they're not. So far, they're not. I'm desperately trying to do the right thing and keep the M intact but know for my sanity that I need to find some peace in this M and in myself.

Ark - You are dead on with how I feel. The resentment runs very deep, the feeling of it's too late, feeling like I may never be able look @ him as an equal because for 20 years he's done childlike things. I AM furious at myself for not looking at my life and my marriage sooner. If I would have looked at things and faced them, things would have been ALOT different. I probably never would have gotten married. But I didn't do that. I put my head down and plowed through this M, always picking up the pieces from the bombs that he'd set off in our life. Covering up things and portraying him to family and friends as different than he really was, because if they KNEW the things he'd done they would have urged me to leave.

There is also the fact that H and I are VERY different. Very different morals and values. I've fought soo hard for him to be a good person to do the right thing. It has been a struggle just to get him to go to work some days. But now that's changing. I'm glad, but I don't know how to handle it. It should be a simple thing, but it's not. I've always wanted this, but I wish these changes that he's making would have happened before my EA. Back then, I blindly loved H - these changes would have deepened my love. Back then I didn't see him for what he was - I saw him for what I hoped he'd be. Now he's starting to be that, but the love that I felt for him left @ the start of my EA.

I've not been to al-anon. The nurses/dr's @ the rehab center suggested that I go, but I've not went. Really, I thought if he's clean, on the correct BPD meds - my feelings would naturally come back. I was very embarassed walking through the rehab doors, embarassed that my H was a drug addict. I AM very grateful that he got the help that he needed, but ashamed that he'd even used drugs. Never in my life did I think I'd be dealing with drugs. Let alone hard drugs like Oxycontin and Methadone. The dr's said it's a wonder he's not dead with the amounts he was taking DAILY. I am furious with myself that I could be so stupid not to KNOW this. He'd been addicted to drugs for years and I had no clue for the most part. BTW, people with BPD have a very high % of drug abuse to "self medicate."

Ark you are completely right that the resentment that I feel is just the tip of the iceberg. I've always known that, but am starting to feel that as well. Thank you so much for your input. I feel like an outsider on this board because my story is so extreme, but I know there are alot of good people here with good advice and I'm hoping something that I read here will click. That is why I came back here, so thank you again for your responses.

I hope the twins are well. I hope you will be well sooner than later.

It's hard to know what to say sometimes. I seek to encourage you, but even if you get encouragement from being here, things won't change much for you from day to day.

When you run all these things that have happened through you mind (seeking solutions) what kind of thoughts come to you?

You could go, and yet you have not. I would guess there is more than guilt to blame for it. What kind of feelings do you get when you pray about these things?

Ah - so many things I could say, and so many questions I could ask. Perhaps it is best to keep this one short. (Said with a smile.)

There is usually a great disparity between what we want/deserve, and what we have. Often it is that our attitude makes up the difference.

This is not written with the intent to condemn, but to inspire thought. I still believe you have done well for all that has happened to you.

May joy fill your life this weekend. May God be in your heart.

SS

Thanks for asking SS, the kids are well. Yes, I could have ran, but I didn't - many, many times I wish I would have. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that IF H got his stuff together that I may not be able too, that it may be too late. I'm reading up on Co-dependency more, hoping to shed some light on my situation.

From reading here, and from watching real life play out over the years, I would say that the solution now is two fold.

1. Do the things that Dr Harley says will help two people fall in love.

2. Time.

You already know there is no magic solution.

On the lighter side -
Find reasons to laugh. It does wonders to help you get through the time part of it.

Take a family vacation -
Sometimes (often) it is easier to laugh away from the pressures of home life.

Keep praying - God really is there. He really does care. He really will help.

Relax -
It will take the lines from your face, the ache from your back, and put smiles on the faces of your children. I know you are good at hiding your pain, but think on it and see what comes to you.

SS

So, Ive been here over a year and my situation hasn't really changed. H is somewhat better, but still will not partake in everyday responsibilities for the most part. House, Lawn, Chores etc. He will always take the easy way out. He still misses the occasional work day, still plays cards, still dabbles with vicoden, still sleeps 10-14 hours a day. To reiterate, he does have bi-polar. He is medicated for BPD but is obviously very irresponsible with his BPD rx. It gives him somewhat of a high and he'll ALWAYS utilize that. He's not seen his psych. doc. regularly, but has seen him.

What do I do if my feelings for him are motherly, but my wifely love is not there? How do I cut the ties and move on - or stay and make peace? I DO feel love for him, compassion for him...but not really in a healthy way for me. I WANT to do the right thing, but I keep looking in my kid's eyes. They're 6 and they love him dearly. My H is very good with them if he does not have to deal with the responsibilities of life. But @ 37 yo, you can't really avoid them. How do I take him out of my kids life on a daily basis? How will they not resent me?

I'm just at a loss here and not sure where to turn. Any insight would be appreciated. My original story is here http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3145122

Thanks for your help - appreciated more than you know.

if you read saa then you'll find out that it's very possible and likely your love will come back. however that depends on you and your spouse. it's not gone for good though.

What if he can't follow through with that though? I KNOW my love could come back if he could step up and be a man as far as his responsibilities, but for 20 years he has NOT been a man OR an equal in any part of this marriage. From MB principles, he's a "freeloader." How do I change that or make him WANT to change that?

Callie,
I've been following your story since you came here. I think you're amazing. My heart goes out to you, and I've been thinking about how you have been doing. I'm glad you're back to check in.

The answer is, of course, you cannot change him or even make him want to change.

All you can do is change yourself.

I think in your situation, firm boundaries are in order. I'm not the expert on this: starfish and myschae are better at putting into words how to do this (these women often post on the emotional needs board- you may search their names to find some wonderful posts on the subject). Since your husband is ill, starting small (like with a certain chore) and working up would be realistic.

Best of luck Callie.

Praying for you and your family-
~Saturn

Sorry things don't seem to be improving.

Would you care to talk about the options you see?

I would dearly like to ask how you are. But, I am not sure if you feel good about discussing that.

Wishing you well.

SS

callie...

have you gone to ala-non yet,,,,,

you are rationalizing and participating without boundaries in his activities that DO NOT

make him a good father..
or provider...

what he is good at is
taking drugs
ignoring his health issues...
and putting the family at risk for financial stife...

until you go to ala-non to get the resources, knowledge and power needed to disengage from this...

you will ONLY feel like his mommy...

and will contintue to be co-dependant and an enabler...

if you don't want this same post in a year..
please go....to ala-non..

ARK

Hi Callie1.

First off, am sorry to hear about what you're going through. Saturn does have a point, though...you can't expect your H to change, unless he makes the realization on his own.

Assuming he won't change, what are you prepared to do? It all boils down to what you can live with, and what you can seriously live without.

Don't make any rash decisions, though...if he is on the BPD medication, then that is already a major hurdle out of the way. The rest of it will take time to fix...

Lots of luck to you both.

cgw,

You said -

Would you mind posting specific examples, please. I think if you could, it would be of a big help to many women on this board who have fallen into this unhealthy dynamic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ark, I have not gone to Al-Anon. I have read all about it online and I have read several Co-dependency books. I am working with an IC who specializes in Co-dep. I just started with her.

My H is in BPD, but the meds are not right imho. They put him in lala land part of the time - which brings flashbacks of when he was on the other non rx drugs. After about 2.5 months of prodding, he did make an appt with his psych doc to talk to him about it.

CGW, I know it would help if I could treat him as an equal, but that's almost impossible for me. He DOES NOT act like an equal on most any level. He does very little around the house, sleeps all the time. Just last monday, I caught him in a lie. He said he'd went to work when in reality, he went to a card game for 15 hours and shut his phone off. He tried lying about it when he got home, but then did admit the truth. That is the behavior of a 15 year old child. How can someone like that be seen as an equal? When confronted, he admitted it was wrong, admitted that he lied because he knew I'd be mad. WHO WOULD NOT BE MAD?

As far as my H making the realization on his own...I think a seperation would help both of us. About 3 months ago we mutually agreed to seperate. He was going to stay with his mom and would be gone @ least a few weeks. After 3 days, he'd moved his stuff back home while I was gone. No discussion with me whatsoever. I came home and his clothes were there. He spent 3 days working, sleeping and playing cards. I'm sure he did no thinking whatsoever about our M. He said he was afraid that I wouldn't let him come back home if I lived w/o him for a while.

But then there is the part of me that does see his good side. That is my downfall. I see the good in most everyone. The good side of him is what draws me in. The apologetic, childlike side of him. The person who continually professes his love for me. The person that says he can't imagine his life without me.

I don't want to keep coming here and complaining. I just want to have some clarity, some direction. I hope to get that through the IC, through MB and through prayer. Sometimes an outside opinion really helps. Thanks so much for your input.

SS - good to talk to you again! Thanks for being there.

Have you maintained no contact with your EA partner?

Good question, yes I have maintained NC. I have seen him quite a bit though (not talked to him) - we do wave. Our town is very small and it really can't be avoided that we would run in to each other. I will probably get reamed here for saying this, but I will truthfully admit that my feelings for OM have not changed at all. (I am sorry if this offends any BS's). Our EA was 2 years ago and has been over for about 1.5 years. I've tried to make my feelings for him go away but it's not happened. I've read here that to get a M back on track, 6 months of NC is and a spouse that meets EN's is needed. I've done the NC, but my H hasn't been meeting my EN's. I've been begging for H to step up and do his part so my feelings can even somewhat come back. He will do ok for a week or a month, but always reverts back to the same. We've even done the EN questionaire and talked about it. He put it in the drawer and hasn't looked @ it since then or mentioned it.

I'm trying to do the right thing. I just want to live a right life with at least a little bit of happiness for myself.

Callie,

The reason your feelings for OM haven't gone away is because you are NOT in no contact. "Waving" is contact, sorry to say.

I have walked in your shoes. For me, I ended my EA and stopped sending emails to OM, but I'd still occasionally check in on his weblog. That was CONTACT (the MB folks beat it into my head, because I actually couldn't see it). I was here complaining because I was still missing OM a YEAR after the affair ended. The posters here pointed out why my recovery is stalled and thoughts of OM persist. I was still contacting him, by reading his blog.

My husband did something similar. His 1st affair was in 1989. It ended quickly, but he kept pictures of OW as a reminder of their time together. Those pictures tainted our marriage for 13 years, until 2002 when he threw them out. I didn't know about his affair until last year, but I knew he wasn't with me, because in his mind he was with her! Even looking at pictures is "contact".

Only until there are NO REMINDERS of OM will your feelings for him fade.

And only until your feelings for OM fade will you be able to feel anything for your husband.

This is something concrete that you can work on.

Best wishes,
~Saturn

SR - I realize that waving is contact. I suppose I don't have to wave, but our EA did not end on a bad note I guess. We're not mad at each other. Even if I pass him and don't wave, I can't avoid passing him kwim? It also doesn't help that I don't have much happiness from my M. I don't know what else to do though as far as H. I can't MAKE him meet my EN's. I can't MAKE him quit playing cards, help around the house or quit dabbling in drugs. I've read people here saying that I can't change him, but I can change myself, but WHAT should I change? Should I leave? Should I just shut up and quit complaining and deal with what H throws my way? I really am at a loss here.