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LOL!

So what you’re saying SL is that I should take the flag and climb the mountain, right?

I’m girding up for that. And no matter what she claims, there was never any physical abuse, nor physical infidelity. She has done both now and has flaunted the latter in my face and in the faces of the two boys who she now proclaims to want to be Super Mom to.

I’ve drafted a response email here and would love to hear your thoughts of this too. It will be, along with a personal conversation probably tonight, my last ditch sole effort before the scorched earth approach. Thanks for reading it and letting me know what you think.

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There are many very good points in the Kids Bill of Rights thing, and I have no fundamental objection to it. Most are good common sense and it’s nice to have a reinforcement of that. There are a few that draw additional conversation (and I mention it a bit below), but we can discuss.

On that note, regarding our email discussions of last week, and obviously in conjunction with your note below, I too wanted to discuss the custody arrangement. I think I understand your position clearly. I totally agree with your points made last week, and might need to clarify as we might have had a bit of a disconnect. I’m not saying that they would spend “bits and pieces” with you. I totally, fully and wholeheartedly want them to have a sizable amount of time with you. That has not been in question.

I have also given you my commitment and will repeat again that I will absolutely concur with doing this legally. Perhaps the choice of my verbiage by saying “allow” last week rubbed you the wrong way, as clearly the tone of your note below would seem to indicate, but I hope my clarification of that made sense. In using that word, I meant permit what was greater than what a “standard” agreement would otherwise call for. I meant advocate—that I will certainly actively insist that whatever you want is what would exceed a “normal” visitation arrangement. That has nothing to do with my exercising any power, not at all. It has to do with legitimately establishing a mutual agreement and my honest willingness to do so. To repeat, I’ll emphasize the word “legal” here

However, I am staunchly against the concept of joint physical custody. I believe that the concept is tantamount to pinballing and ping-ponging the boys. I couldn’t live in two places simultaneously, could you? With two sets of everything, the added cost burden of same and perhaps more deviations from even that modified joint physicality depending on Scouts, sports, other events, logistics, vacations, etc. These are legitimate concerns as well, some of which I linked and excerpted in my prior note. I understand the rationale behind it, I’ve read the pros and cons about it, and I’ve pondered on it mightily at great length. In fact, I’ve tried to envision how it would work, have contemplated it with great seriousness. I read that link, as you had sent it to me already, and I had perused Mom’s House, Dad’s House as well in depth.

But I am still a proponent of my having primary residential custody, us having joint legal custody, with the primary residence being with me and visitation structured in as liberal a manner as I describe above. For the sake of consistency, which kids need more than anything, it behooves us to accommodate that. Please note that having a sole residential custody arrangement is not akin to only then having “bits and pieces” with you. I know that might be a fear but I’m not going to leverage that. Again, I deduce from your note below that you are worried about the perception issue. I would also respectfully tell you that instead of us trying to reconcile our marriage, you did in fact make your choice and the consequences associated with it. I didn’t make that choice. I’m not going to rehash the past for seemingly the umpteenth time here, we have more important concerns now. Nor can I control what you think their perception might be—that’s all highly speculative. I would even go so far as to say it doesn’t matter. What matters is that we do craft a solid plan together and then execute same.

I promise you that and will legally do what is necessary to go along with that. In the spirit of our negotiation here, I do want to do this amicably.

And since we agreed to honestly vet the issues associated with this, I might as well point out some of the underlying reasons I am opposed to the joint physical custody arrangement. Based on what I’ve read, shared parenting works best when there is some mutual level of trust, there are financial resources available for doing it (the costs vary, but it’s sizable), and the parents can maintain a calm businesslike relationship. I will state that right now that trust isn’t there. It just isn’t and if we are going to collaborate on our attempts of an amicable divorce, I have to be forthcoming with that. I guess that’s why those 29 points in the kids email make sense but a few only ring hollow if there isn’t a foundation of trust. In time, perhaps, I don’t know. But it is admittedly a concern of mine, particularly as it pertains to any plans you have with Roger Ramjet and how that changes the parenting picture (Crossroads sidenote: Roger Ramjet is 49 years old, 14 years her senior, has never had kids, has never wanted kids, and will suddenly be thrust into this…another massive consideration here).

Of course I am going to do what is in the best interest of the children, and I am not going to speak ill of you as the other parent. But I am also bound to tell them the truth, just as I did when I chose to expose your affair. If and when they ask, what do I say? I think that in that context, any discussion of joint physical custody is fraught with potential for disaster, especially at this juncture. You state correctly that we are smart people. But this isn’t solely a matter of the brain; it is a matter of the heart, indeed, a matter of my own flesh and blood and one that I take very seriously—indeed, they are the most important piece of my life.

Moreover, I think especially right now, financially it would make the best sense to allow some time to pass, get settled in, get squared away, and then perhaps review in time and so forth. This whole thing is going to be tumultuous enough as it is. The boys will be moving, they’ll be starting a new school, albeit a familiar one, in a new home, and I think they don’t need to be inundated or overloaded any more than they already will be with two homes. You and I will need time to decompress and readjust as well. I’ll repeat again that I’ve been down this road before. I lived it. It’s not pleasant. It can’t be easy under the best of circumstances. It was tough enough; I could not have imagined having to go back and forth at some arbitrary schedule between parents in such a manner as most of the joint physical custody arrangements are structured. I thought what one of the doctors said was very accurate: “joint custody does not give the child a whole family, nor does it approximate a two-parent intact home. The child, in fact, is central and permanent to no home, which only reinforces the trauma of the divorce split. It would be far better for the child to have one stable one-parent "intact" home and for the other parent to visit in a complementary way, rather than create the conflict of a competing "home."

Lastly, I think we do need to arrive at an agreement for custody exclusive of any support arrangements for now. As I also stated, that would be totally negotiable right now and contingent upon the custody agreement. But for the sake of our mutual commitment to finding common ground, I think financial support should be delinked and totally separated from the custody discussion at this time. (Crossroads sidenote: I think the thought of her being forced to pay child support was a motivator for her to push for joint physical custody, to avert that, I mentioned that earlier)

As far as threatening me with whatever ammo you have, you needn’t be unnecessarily provocative here. You restated your commitment last week to be amicable, talked about how nice it was to have a rational conversation several times last week, and yet you want to continue to sling this around. I have no reservations at all about getting everything out on the table--none. I made my mistakes, we made ours and we should disconnect as amicably as possible. You remember that saying about wrestling with a pig? You both get muddy and the pig likes it. I too could have done a lot of things, as you could have (and did as well), but that matters little, actually nothing, now. If we cannot come up with a joint agreement, then I think a mediator would be a possible alternative prior to taking more drastic steps.

I would respectfully tell you that I don’t understand your motivation of having once agreed to giving me custody then changing your mind. We could have had an agreement in place already that would have met our needs and that of the boys and already be much further along this road.

I would like to sit down tonight and discuss this as well as put forth our plan of action for telling the boys and laying out specifics. Coming to a conclusion here is critical, as it impacts our respective living and housing arrangements, financial pictures, location, etc, etc, ad infinitum… One of the biggest questions is going to be who they are going to live with…would you like to ask that of them or shall we dictate it to them? Or weigh both? Either way, it needs to be resolved and done so rather expeditiously.

And you’re right SL—lawyers don’t have my best interests at heart and it would be naïve to think as much. But if it comes down to it, I want the best hired gun mercenary I can find who will go for the jugular, step on the throat and get a victory. The money is ultimately secondary to the price my kids will pay by a less than optimal arrangement.

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Karma?

I'm wondering that if I can't come to an agreement on custody and that precipitates my filing for divorce, should I do it on my anniversary date?

July 20...

Wouldn't that be bizarre?

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Oh, Xroads, BTW, I think your email/letter is pretty dang good. She sounds very defensive with you and you are calling her on that. She's like a cat ready to pounce, and you called her on waiting until there is reason to pounce.

My anniversary is the 19th; it will be our 10th.

Well, you never know what my happen over the years to come, so I would file on the 19th or the 21st, just to be safe...


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A couple of things....1) your WW threatening you and then trying to justify her slide over an EA you had is ridiculous at best and legally unenforceable as she by continuing to be married to you, sleep with you, have sex with you has in effect condoned it and forgiven it prior to her PA w/ Rogerramjet. 2) Prepare for the worst and make it known to her that nothing, and I repeat nothing is more important than protecting your children from a WW and POS OM like RR and that if it goes to court you will not be nearly as understanding or amicable. 3) Let her know that RogerRamJet will be deposed, called to testify in open courts about every ugly thing the two of them have done, about his plans and intentions with your WW (shacking up, marriage, etc), his past parenting experience, that his former GF's, ex wives, etc may be called to attest to his lack of character and poor parenting skills.

It's all out war in a custody battle. Let your WW know that you are prepared to go to the bitter end if that is how she wants it.

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Thanks Hopeandpray…

You know, that is exactly the kind of pep talk I need. I was telling a buddy of mine that while I am a gregarious Type A, never afraid to speak to anyone or speak up about anything, for whatever reason I’m finding myself remarkably non-confrontational about how to handle this. Maybe it’s 11 years of marriage, maybe it’s fatigue, maybe it’s something else deeper that is hampering me, but I have had a very difficult time taking the gloves off.

Scorched earth, that’s ultimately the policy and could very well happen. The good news is that things are picking up steam here…

WW is signing for an apartment and is making it happen! FINALLY! She revealed to me finally also that she got a separate checking account and is splitting up car insurance and so forth. We are telling the boys totally this weekend, but custody remains the biggest outstanding issue, and most importantly, of course. And the house is now officially listed! I’m praying that we get it sold quickly.

I’m really happy to finally see some movement here. I don’t know what’s going to happen with her and Roger Ramjet, nor do I care. But things are looking up.

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Hopeandpray is batting a thousand today. I love that post!


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Indeed!!

Home run... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Your letter sound so attorney-like!

How about addressing THIS part of her email?
"I compromised my pride and my anger, biting back the tears AND my tongue, because I still believed in my heart that it truly was you and me against the world and that you were committed to doing whatever it took to get us through the storm. When it became apparent that your way of facing the storm was to ask me to just ignore it, hoping it would go away, I knew the ride was, indeed, over."

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Quote
Your letter sound so attorney-like!

How about addressing THIS part of her email?
"I compromised my pride and my anger, biting back the tears AND my tongue, because I still believed in my heart that it truly was you and me against the world and that you were committed to doing whatever it took to get us through the storm. When it became apparent that your way of facing the storm was to ask me to just ignore it, hoping it would go away, I knew the ride was, indeed, over."

Well, I'm certainly not at a loss when it comes to my writing ability, that's for sure. And that was well thought out and hardly the extemporaneous e-mail that it might appear to be.

You know, Believer, it’s not even worth addressing that part of her email anymore. We’ve been down that road so many times already. She continues to dredge up the past and she’s still very much immersed in it and almost haunted by it it seems. When I started my Plan A in earnest, I realized how ill-equipped I was to deal with my EA back then and how I did in fact bury it away, as she states. I got my wake up call. Evidently, it happened too late because she decided to shut it down, have an affair, fall in love with Roger Ramjet and bail on even attempting to reconcile her marriage or save her family.

She has stated a million times that she tried to reconcile and save things, but just as she wasn’t ready to receive the changes I instituted, I evidently missed the boat on what she had done. I have my own opinions about that—namely, that she did jack to save our marriage. I don’t know what she actually DID other than to talk about my going to counseling, but that’s really irrelevant at this juncture.

And for her compromising her pride and anger, biting back her tears and her tongue, it wasn’t enough to do anything about it, was it?

I’m moving on. I’m past feeling like crap about it, I’m beyond the self flagellation that I engaged in for far too long, and I’m getting over the hand-wringing about missteps that happened. I am now at a place—and have been, truly, for now a few months I think—where I can look myself in the mirror, admit my faults, and take accountability for my situation now. What I cannot do is take responsibility for HER actions. She defiled our marriage, threw me and her children under the bus and now wants some sterile non-painful end to it.

The good news is that YESTERDAY we came to an agreement on custody and I’m proud and elated to announce that I will have primary possession of the boys!!

We’re going to work out specifics insofar as a liberal visitation schedule and so forth, but she acquiesced on her insistence about joint physical custody. So now we have a working agreement in place on all financial matters, the kids, bills, most marital property, and have boilerplated much of the collaborative template we had begun to work on. The house is now listed, she has found an apartment and will be moving soon, and things are finally off center.

I can’t begin to tell you—and those of you who have gone through this can certainly attest—the feeling of liberation I have just with these recent developments. It’s as if a major weight has been lifted off my shoulders and part of the burden is gone.

I know I’m not out of the woods—not even close—but I’m relieved to finally have some positive developments to report.

And talk about bittersweet—today is the 12th anniversary of our having first met.

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Hey ya'll...

Sorry for the absence. There has been a lot going on lately, to say the least.

To offer a very condensed version of things, WW has been dragging her feet on property settlement and I'm tired of the dilatory tactics. I am filing TOMORROW!

One way or another, I want this thing to be over in 60 days. I'm starting to have some stress, but it's more financial anxiety than anything else.

The boys will be OK, I'm sure. I just want to lavish them with love, take care of them, show them through my actions that I'm their Dad and Zeus.

It's going to be OK. Details and soap opera comedy stories to come!!

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Will be looking out for the details when you have the time. I hope you have been doing well, and had thought about giving you a shout out the other day.


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Well gang, it's been a week of weeks. Really a month of amazing and almost incomprehensible events.

My apologies for the prolonged absence, but it’s been quite a trek. To begin, I filed for divorce at the beginning of this month. My lawyer advised me to wait until she moved out and spent a night away before presenting her with the divorce petition (part of that strategery thang). So I was able to do that just this past Sunday AM. She moved out last Friday.

However, against this backdrop, my Mom passed away last Monday. She had just moved here in April, to spend time with her grandsons primarily. She had terminal bone cancer, but the cause of death was her breathing, advanced stage COPD due to decades of smoking. So without getting preachy on any of you who might smoke, I tell you: stop. Stop now, do whatever it takes to break free. Your life and the lives of your loved ones are far too important to be destroyed by smoking.

But the most amazing part of this story is that I found someone. Almost by accident, really. And I too take counsel of the usual warnings to not get distracted, don’t take your eye off the ball, etc, but this is rather unique. As some of you might know from reading my earlier posts, I had done my Plan A since January. I worked diligently to try to save my marriage, to try to reconnect with my wife, instill new healthy relationship habits and improve myself. And it worked to a more profound degree than I could have dreamed. I became a better Dad because of it and I found my internal strength. Yet there was something missing, and it was my spirituality.

This woman invited me to church the weekend after our first date. A seemingly innocuous gesture made by a friend. There were no major romantic bells going off or anything at first, truth be told. But inviting me to church was a symbolic (and literal) gesture…it was a rebirthing of me from those dark days and stepping into the light. I had fallen away from it throughout most of my marriage and I think that may be (well, IS not might be) a contributor to my failed marriage…that I didn’t put God first, I didn’t take control of my marriage and family as I should have, and so on.

Had all of these events happened just six months ago, there’s no way I’d have even recognized it much less be equipped enough to deal with all of it. I now know—finally—that those dark days from December onward in the first half of this year weren’t my silent suffering but were training for what I am facing NOW. It pushed me to grow, to break out of not only my relationship complacency but also to break me out of my spiritual fog that I had been in for years. I know believe that God’s plan wasn’t to save my marriage, but to help me with my future relationships—ie: to become a better Dad, and most notably, now my relationship with her.

So against this amazing backdrop, my Mom passed away. She knew I had filed for divorce, she knew I had returned to church with this woman (and she was elated for that fact) and she was able to spend a lot of her time here with her grandsons…it was as if she just knew it was her time to go. Like an actor who has the presence to know when to leave the stage.

I believe in my heart that God has given me this opportunity at a time of His choosing, not mine. My Mom’s passing, the timing of it and circumstances even validate that for me.

So now I am moving forward with the divorce. The boys are with me and the WW has moved into her own apartment. She took off with most of the furniture (because she thinks since it’s in her name that it is hers, nevermind that she has no comprehension of what constitutes marital property in a legal sense and that I could really be a stickler and get a temporary order to restore it back to the house), and it’s been awkward around the house a bit.

And the gamesmanship has started with using the kids as weapons. I’m removing myself from the equation and will not get into it with her. It’s now a legal matter. We can come together and arrive at an agreement, or I can get down and dirty. I’d like to avoid the latter, certainly, but right now, things are in transition.

And you want to know the most bizarre part? Roger Ramjet was diagnosed with Parkinson’s! I would never wish something so horrible on anyone, but there is a part of me that finds this far too cruelly ironic in a strange way. He will probably push WW away, and her dream lover will leave her. So she’ll be alone. She’s already finally spent a few nights on her own and the tables seem to have turned quite a bit. It’s something no Hollywood scriptwriter could dream up.

So say a prayer for me and the boys, and my Mom, and I’ll keep you posted.

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Sorry about your mother.

Please end this "relationship".

You are a married man. No matter what justifications you have.

Do what your wife should have done. Get divorced.
Then move on with your life.

Your children do not need BOTH parents having affairs.

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I am so sorry to hear about your mother.

I do agree with Lexxxy. Your children have so much to deal with with their mother being gone from their lives in a 'normal' capacity, and now DAD is more important than the kids, too. That's gotta be tough for them.


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Whoa. Hold on for a minute…

My wife has been in absentia since December, carrying on and practically “commuting” to visit Roger Ramjet for months, while I have been the parent, the Dad, the provider and the rock, all while getting my head screwed up straight, and I’m being criticized? Folks, my marriage has been dead for months. I’ve been through ****** and back and I deserve happiness too. I wish the timing were different, I truly do. I have and will always sacrifice in whatever manner I need to for the sake of the kids, but I won’t continue to subjugate myself either.

I can handle it, I really can. And like I said, I’m not getting premature with going too hard too fast, but I strongly believe that God finds a way. The boys know what’s been going on, they know that WW has made her choice. Admittedly, it might be too early to introduce someone else into the mix and I’m cognizant of that, but they know that no one has been or will ever be more important than them in their life. But if the consensus of two parties already is that I should hold off for now, that’s a real difficult pill to swallow.

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I am sooo sorry about your mom, I know what it feels like to lose a parent.

As for your new lady, Whoa is right! Doesn't matter what your "wife" is doing right now, she's still your wife and you are still her husband... by law... and in the eyes of God.

You say God "finds a way". Yes he does, but not this way. If you're implying that God sent this new lady into your life then you might as well be saying that God isn't true to his word or his commands. One of his commandments is to NOT commit adultery. Adultery is not only physical. He says even if you lust after another woman you've committed adultery in your heart. He also hates divorce but allows for it in the case of adultery. So I don't think God had anything to do with bringing you together with this "other woman." And that's what she is right now.

Okay, enough of the sermon. But you ARE still married. Set a good example for your children. Their mother hasn't. You can by not getting involved with anyone until you are divorced. And even then, I'd go very very slow.


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In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Without lapsing too much into some theological discussion here, none of us can speak about the eyes of God. In His eyes, if this woman brought me back to Him, regardless of some legal delay—the eyes of man—in the formality of the divorce process, I would hope that He would understand that.

We can split hairs on this until we’re blue in the face, I’m sure.

I am her husband only in the context of the state of Texas.

She stopped being my wife when she hit me. Twice.
She stopped being my wife when she threw her children under the bus for the sake of an extramarital affair.
She stopped being my wife when she refused to even try to salvage our marriage…the marriage that WAS performed before the eyes of God.
She stopped being my wife through any number of malicious spiteful acts that I’ve endured over the past several months.
She stopped being my wife when she moved out last Friday, taking all the furniture, some of my possessions and is now using her own children as weapons in this battle.

With due respect, you say that God doesn’t “find a way” this way. I beg to differ. The biggest challenges in life are opportunities for greater things.

I am intelligent enough to realize that I need to use my head and not be overwhelmed by my heart right now. I know that. And I am proceeding very carefully. But I would caution anyone to start pontificating holier than thou as we all have our various stories to tell. If the love of a woman, rooted in a foundation in Christ, helps salvage my soul throughout all of this, enables to be a more capable father and person and unlocks so much good, I can’t go along with the notion that it’s all bad.

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please don't take this as a holier than thou attitude, but this statement

Quote
If the love of a woman, rooted in a foundation in Christ, helps salvage my soul throughout all of this, enables to be a more capable father and person and unlocks so much good, I can’t go along with the notion that it’s all bad.

is fog talk on your part and justification. I bet there are many people here whose WS said exactly the same thing at some time.

Sure, all those actions you listed are examples of how she stopped being your wife. But YOU have not stopped being her husband, and until you are divorced, any relationship you try to start up is an affair. Don't go down the same road.

I say this also, because I myself have been very close to where you are, so I'm not just blowing smoke here.

Sorry, that's my opinion and take it for whatever it's worth to you.

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I am not saying that this woman may be good. That's great, fine, BUT she is having a relationship with a married man. I know how lonely you are, frustrated, angry, tired of DOING. I understand, ALL of us do.

This is why I'm saying you should wait

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enables to be a more capable father and person and unlocks so much good, I can’t go along with the notion that it’s all bad.


You need to be ABLE to do this solo. If you cannot, then this woman is only a temp fix. Do you understand? The sentence that you wrote here is a justification. Real, HONEST love, needs no justification.

I am worried about this move, that is all. I am not bringing God into this discussion, because I have no basis there to guide you. I'm talking about healing from within, BEFORE bringing someone else into this horrid mix. I'm concerned that you are hurt and sad and lonely and angry and so many more EMOTIONS, that the feelings that this woman evokes in you are more important that the reality.


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Crossroads --
You've taken the high road all these months, you've done all the right things (up until now) -- but this instance is black and white -- no gray.

You are married.

Simple as that. Don't date while you are married.
It goes against everything we believe in here.

If you believe the marriage is dead and over, then get a divorce. Then start dating.

But, if you have succumbed to the belief that you can call the marriage dead based on your feelings -- then you no longer have any right to criticize your wife. She lost her "feelings" for you and started dating. That has apparently become OK in your book. Don't be a hypocrite.

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