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Can an Xws survive recovery?

Is this a trick question? Nope...but think hard, can an Xws survive recovery?

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Why not?

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FH,

Good question. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Answer: An Xws can start recovery but not survive it. It takes the real spouse to survive recovery.

When the A stops it is not a sign the spouse is back. That interim state is where we often label them as the Xws. It is a delicate state where often the BS and family finds themselves walking on eggshells trying to make the Xws fit back into the family.

Here is where we as BS' often fail. It is not that we aren't trying, it is because we ARE trying that it fails. WHAT?!???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Hear me out..... often when the Xws is let back into the family and no real ground rules have been set (i.e. implementation of boundaries, POJA, RH, etc.) the Xws thinks it is ok to hold onto some of those Ws traits. Anger, being cold, distant, demanding time alone, putting themselves ahead of their families, etc..... all this and more.... it takes the toll on the BS and family. The BS tries to overlook what should NOT be avoided. When the Xws comes back it is the BS and family who s/b having it easier. The Xws should NOT be whiney, selfish and distant.

Yet that is what most of them are. That is why it is an Xws title and most families can't handle such a character in their household for long.

So until the Xws sheds that title, acts and performs like a real spouse should...then and only then are they truly going down the path of recovery.

A person can't be an Xws forever. That is a temporary stage in life. At some point they become either a WS or spouse.

JMHO,
L.

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This is where I get confused. When the Xws comes home, what is supposed to be tolerated by the BS? I've heard that the BS needs to go back into a pseudo plan A (eggshell walking) and that the Xws needs time to go through withdrawal, which probably means he will not be participating in RECOVERY, initially.

So, that being said, what happens during those early stages before WS picks up the RECOVERY baton and runs with it?


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Orchid...

I want to ask a question...I'll try and be as respectful as possible, but I gotta tell ya that posts like this last one from you leave me REELING many times...Let me explain...Based on your usage of labels, I have an impossible time posting...Think about it, I often post to people explaining that I am a "FWS"...Now, based on what you are putting forth here, imagine my predictament...I would have to say...

"Hi, I'm Mrs. W, I am now a SPOUSE, at one time I was a FWS(xWS as you say-or heck a RWS as KYellow would say) and before that I was a WS, prior to that time I was originally a SPOUSE"...

To me, all this labeling creates a semantics nightmare...I feel that it throws a curveball of confusion at people that are already in one of the most confusing times of their lives...So, my question is simply...WHY?

Mrs. W


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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Mrs W, I'm with you on this.

Part of why we recovered was because me, as an FWS, didn't do whiny or entitled or anything else that you are saying xWS (I don't quite get what that label means BTW) do. I bent over backwards and double backwards to prove I was worthy of the label FWW.

IRL I am a spouse. That's what I am. For the purposes of the MB board I label myself as a FWW because it doesn't create confusion and people know which side I'm coming from.

I don't think I'm getting the point of what you're asking? saying? but it's just my 0.02c worth.

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Mrs. Wondering and Kiwi,

Thank you for your candid responses.

I am sorry my post offended you. It was not meant to do so. Both of you are no longer Xws' coming out of the A and still maintaining the WS attitude. Big difference yet you all use the same title?

When I read your posts vs posts from BS' those whose WS' have supposedly stopped the A yet still make life miserable for the Bs and family, I certainly do NOT put you all under the same title nor category.

In most cases when I read your posts, it is quite evident that while you were an FWW, you are now in the loving role of a spouse and your spouse loves you for it. Your care and love for your spouse and your family exudes through your posts so it is evident to me that you are current NOT an FWW but now a true W.

In fact your very presence here as a recovered spouse shows that you are no longer an Xws. My point is that one can not maintain the Xws stance for life in the recovery. Xws is a temporary status. Always has been.

My original intent for this thread was to help the BS' out there see that IF their Xws' show signs of wanting to come back, the Xws must also show signs of becoming the real (aka: new/improved) spouse and NOT remain as an Xws. Often the supposed Xws wants the BS to just forget about it and move on. For many that's a no can do.

It is good to get your input.

Mahalo,
L.

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This is where I get confused. When the Xws comes home, what is supposed to be tolerated by the BS? I've heard that the BS needs to go back into a pseudo plan A (eggshell walking) and that the Xws needs time to go through withdrawal, which probably means he will not be participating in RECOVERY, initially.

So, that being said, what happens during those early stages before WS picks up the RECOVERY baton and runs with it?

Silent,

The question is how long will YOU allow him NOT to participate in the recovery? If he is stalling, is that acceptable behavior for you? Can you really recover with that kind of attitude NOW in your home?

I can tell you from experience that giving an Xws an extended 'cushion' time to adjust is NOT healthy for the family. Our house is our home. We should feel comfortable there, not walking on eggshells.

When I found myself doing that, I got mad. Real mad and when I brought that to the then Xws' attention, I was told to forget it or he will leave again. I thought about it and didn't see any reason for him to stay..... false recovery. That happened a few times. I even told the then Xws, 'you know we do know how to live without you....you taught us how.' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> He sure did. He didn't count on my response. He thought I would take him back as is to stay as is. Not acceptable. I realized my tolerance level was low and needed to stay that way.

Respect, love and care was not an option in our home. Either he complied (it went both ways <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) or he left. That is why I said, I carry plan B in my back pocket.

Once true recovery takes place, there is really no need for our now spouse to continue to browbeat themselves as an Xws. Because that would mean I am still a BS. I don't want t/b a BS. Ask anyone who was a BS or an Xws. Do they want to retain those titles? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Not me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Orchid, it stikes me that you are talking about two different things here. I understand that what you are talking about is a solid, recovered, marriage. But that in no way changes, or "forgets," that there WAS a different condition at some point in the past.

A former smoker.
A former alcoholic.
A former unbeliever.
A former adulterer/adulteress.



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Answer: An Xws can start recovery but not survive it. It takes the real spouse to survive recovery.

I disagree. Again, I understand what you are trying to say, but what it "takes" is real change, it takes real forgiveness, it takes real commitment, it takes real repentance, it takes real love (not just 'in love' feelings). DOING those things results in a "real spouse."


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When the A stops it is not a sign the spouse is back.

Of course not. It is the "first step" in the long journey toward a possible reconciliation, but nothing happens without continued effort.


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That interim state is where we often label them as the Xws. It is a delicate state where often the BS and family finds themselves walking on eggshells trying to make the Xws fit back into the family.


While the "eggshell" state you refer to may be a "step" in the journey, that "eggshell state" cannot be allowed to continue. That is WHY talking about the affair, about EN's, about obedience to God, etc. are other necessary steps in the process. The BS and WS remain "recovering BS's and recovering WS's" throughout this process. In my opinion, one does not "rate" nor "gain" the appelation of "Former" until such time as the "new has come, the old has gone." In short, not until they reach "Recovered." But I will "make allowance" for a WS who is committed to the recovery journey to "take on" the "Former" designation when they are through withdrawal and through having anything to with the adultery, regardless of whether or not their marriage survives.


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Here is where we as BS' often fail. It is not that we aren't trying, it is because we ARE trying that it fails. WHAT?!????

Hear me out..... often when the Xws is let back into the family and no real ground rules have been set (i.e. implementation of boundaries, POJA, RH, etc.) the Xws thinks it is ok to hold onto some of those Ws traits. Anger, being cold, distant, demanding time alone, putting themselves ahead of their families, etc..... all this and more.... it takes the toll on the BS and family. The BS tries to overlook what should NOT be avoided. When the Xws comes back it is the BS and family who s/b having it easier.

Okay, I "heard you out," and I disagree with your description. What you are describing is Conflict Avoidance. NOT addressing problems and looking for solutions to the problems is NOT "trying." It is, at best, hoping that things will change for the better while DOING NOTHING to provide a foundation of change that LEADS TO the desired result. That is, to put it another way, lack of a "Recovery Plan." It is starting off on a journey in the hope and desire of arriving safely at some desired destination, but with no planning and no map of how to get there. In a Christian marriage, the first destination is a "right relationship" with God. Without that, and without the Word of God as the compass and map, it is impossible to "reach" that destintion. Get THERE and "all these things will be added unto you." That's a promise, but it's only a promise to believers. Obedience to God is meaningless to unbelievers, so the creator of marriage, who knows the intent of it and the roles of each person in a marriage, is "left out of the plan."


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The Xws should NOT be whiney, selfish and distant.

Yet that is what most of them are. That is why it is an Xws title and most families can't handle such a character in their household for long.

That seems to be a description of "humans in general." We are all "self-centered" by nature. That is part of our "fallen nature," and not the exclusive domain of a WS.

What a WS "should be" or "shouldn't be" is not the question. The question is HOW does one take on a "new nature?"

The "title," as you call it, is US. We are all "wayward" and we all fight against our flesh all the time. That is the nature of sin. It is not enough, imho, to simply stop doing something wrong that has become a habit or an addiction. Stopping is just "step one." It leaves a "void" that must be filled with something else, or the void will remain. It is that filling of the void that recovery is all about.


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So until the Xws sheds that title, acts and performs like a real spouse should...then and only then are they truly going down the path of recovery.

Again I have to disagree. There is a way to "shed the title of Wayward Spouse," and that is to become a FORMER Wayward Spouse. That begins with repentance, with turning away from the sin and back to God and beginning the journey back to a "right relationship" with God and with their spouse. But it is NOT an instantaneous "it is done!" sort of thing. It's a journey, a process, of recovery. It's often "two steps forward, one step backward" as both spouses learn new skills and new lessons in their relationship as "husband and wife."


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A person can't be an Xws forever. That is a temporary stage in life. At some point they become either a WS or spouse.

There is no question that "Recovered" means just what it says. Recovered "from" what was to what "is." The "moniker" of "Former" is never "shed" simply because the past cannot be "undone." But the past does not have to DEFINE the present or the future.

As the Scripture put it...."and such WERE some of you." That was us "then," this is us "now." Formerly we were...now we are...

Not reckoning Man's sins against him. But make no mistake about it, God does NOT forget the sins, He ACTS as if they did not exist. There will be a book opened at the final judgment where ALL of one's "works" in this life will be exposed and judged. Those who's names are found written in the Lamb's Book of Life will be judged "blameless" because of what Christ did, not because of what we did. "For it is by grace you have been saved, not of works, lest any man should boast."

"At some point they become either a WS or spouse."

Agreed. This is a description of a CURRENT state of affairs, if you'll pardon the pun.

It's the same thing as at some point a person either becomes a born again Christian or they remain an unbeliever in a reprobate state. It has been said that two births equals a new creation and one birth equals "no change."

So how does one "rebirth" a marriage? Is it different for believers and unbelievers? How does one become "different" from their past?

God bless.

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I think I'll chime in on this one. I think that FWS will, as a few other's have said, always be FWS. Same for "X" It means, at least to me, in the past, no longer participating in those behaviors. Now, I think that when a BS allows the WS to come back and they are still walking on eggshells, the WS has not earned the "F" or "X" yet. They are still giving off the feelings of WS, and therefore should remain in the WS category. Until the attitudes and behaviors are changed, they have not earned the former or ex portion of their titles. I am still, and will always be a FORMER WW, because of what my past actions were. I am now, and will always be a loving WIFE to my hubby, because that is what I CHOOSE to be. Its the behaviors and actions that determine whether they are WS or F/XWS. Take Dev's sitch, he thought his WW was in, or close to, the FWW for a short time before he found the emails and such. Now, from all his posts, I never felt she was even attempting to gain the coveted "F" or "X". She was still displaying the WS attitudes.

So, from my POV, and VHO, unless and until the WS has changed their ways, attitudes and behaviors, they are still a WS. Even through withdrawl. It doesn't mean we love them any less, just that we need to guard our hearts a little closer. Once they are past that childish behavior, and the FWS breaks free, then they can wear that badge with honor, that they saw the damage and pain they were putting their BS, family and friends through, asked forgiveness and repented(meaning you will "sin that sin no more"). I am not proud of WHAT I did in my past, but I sure am proud of the "F" I recieved for my efforts at our recovery! I AM former and never shall return from there!


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Gotta agree. When Orchid wrote this is not a trick question, my immediate thought was, yes it is.

I think I understand how the conclusion was made, I just think the theory doesn't hold water. To me, it's just word games, and I don't like playing emotional/mental games.

just my perspective.

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Orchid...

I want to ask a question...I'll try and be as respectful as possible, but I gotta tell ya that posts like this last one from you leave me REELING many times...Let me explain...Based on your usage of labels, I have an impossible time posting...Think about it, I often post to people explaining that I am a "FWS"...Now, based on what you are putting forth here, imagine my predictament...I would have to say...

"Hi, I'm Mrs. W, I am now a SPOUSE, at one time I was a FWS(xWS as you say-or heck a RWS as KYellow would say) and before that I was a WS, prior to that time I was originally a SPOUSE"...

To me, all this labeling creates a semantics nightmare...I feel that it throws a curveball of confusion at people that are already in one of the most confusing times of their lives...So, my question is simply...WHY?

Mrs. W


[color:"#39395A"]***Well, it's sort of hard to still wonder if you were consolation prize in the midst of being cherished.***
- Noodle[/color]

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Where did I miss all these ideas before. Maybe I wasn't ready to understand that I couldn't make all of the change. I have let my WS back into my life for the past year without a "plan for recovery" Of course I had a plan, but he didn't agree and thought my plan wouldn't work- Well i should have known that because he was never going to try to change. I guess that is the person whom you are describing a FWH who comes back into the family, but isn't ready to make change. Am I right? Because that is what I have. Thanks for the clarity. I am lost in understanding what I have been doign wrong, but no know it is what I have been doing right. So what is next- don't want to steal a thread, so If you have an answer to this, my post is under general Q's right now.


me BW- 29 WH- 29 2kids- 2&5 married 10 years "Love is the gift of self. It means emptying oneslf to reach out to others. In a certain sense, it means forgettung oneself for the good of others."
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Orchid:

It is all applies and oranges and word play. For the purposes of most folks, FWS is a description that covers a lot of ground, most of which are associated wiht "They ain't doing it anymore."

Add "In recovery" and you get the condition that even someone on the low end of the IQ bell curve can understand without parsing every word.

Recovery is the change in habits and mind sets that allowed the weaknesses to cause harmful behavior. That is what you are addressing with your husband;

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He didn't count on my response. He thought I would take him back as is to stay as is. Not acceptable. I realized my tolerance level was low and needed to stay that way.

You were teaching him you weren't his mama and no, you wouldn't forgive him anything. He had to modify his way of doing business or else. This will usually correct not only the issues he had that led to the affair, it will also make him a part of the family in ways he will eventually enjoy after he learns the painful lesson.

XWS and Spouse are two different titles that mean different things. So you don't confuse people, treat them that way, as my suggestion.

Larry

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Thank you all for your responses.

I see my subject has raised some opinions which when read carefully really put us on the same page. Why?

Because it is evident there are 2 types of Xws (use this so it applies to both genders <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

Will we always be former somethings? Yes. But as applicably put, a wise man wrote 'that is what some of you were'. That is a big difference and the reason for my thread.

Are there different categories of Xws'? Seems to be. Is that confusing to the BS' who THINK their mates are home and are now Xws' but acting like WS', yet the A is supposedly over? Yes....big difference.

That is why I wrote this thread. For all those who have crossed over from being a WS and are now a spouse....to most of us you don't carry that title. When I think of FWW or Xws, I don't think of Mrs. Wondering or any other who has truly recovered. I think of the Xws' who are allowed to come home and NOT working towards recovery.

Actually, I have deep respect for those who have moved forward from their former course and changed their lives.... 'that is what some of you were' is applicable. Their journey was a long and hard one yet they have survived. For that they should be held in high esteem for they are the ones who can really help all of us understand this situation. Those people are true survivors along with their families.

Let me ask it in a more simple manner. What do you call an FWW or Xws who is fully recovered vs an Xws who isn't?

L.

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I usually refer to him in my threads as "my husband" or even "hubby". However, for the sake of clarity here in these forums I often refer to myself, > HERE < as the BS or sometimes the FBS, and sometimes to my husband as FWS... Simply to give context to my perspective.

My husband inspires awe in me every single day. I'd marry him all over again, and I plan to.


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Let me ask it in a more simple manner. What do you call an FWW or Xws who is fully recovered vs an Xws who isn't?

Well see I think being recovered or no longer having a WS mindset is what enables you to earn your "F" or "x"

And I see that as a pepetual state for the purposes of posting here on MB.

IRL of course, a BS and a FWS need to drop all the labels and just be a plain old S again. That is true recovery.


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Why "x" Orchid ? I thought you meant "divorced WS" until I read a couple of times, as per common frum useage "XWS" or even "STBXH" LOL.

In answer to your question, then yes a FORMER WS can survive recovery just as any repentent, atoning sinner can live a trustworthy life.

That "F" is one of the hardest badges of honour I have seen earned in the civilian world.

I disagree with some folsk on here as to whether any MB-badges should linger after recovery.

in my case I am now of a state that I was not in before - a betrayed H. Not CURRENTLY ongoingly in betrayal, but once.

An amputee is always an amputee, even when the severing is complete IMO.


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IRL of course, a BS and a FWS need to drop all the labels and just be a plain old S again. That is true recovery.

I agree.

L.


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