(Sorry, this is a long post, but accurately describes my dilemma and maybe yours; please bear with it… ;-) )<P>OK, this is going to seem a little cold in some respects, but hear me out and please give me thoughtful replies. I've been thinking a lot about what I've read on this site - the articles, the Q&A, the posts, etc. I've also been thinking about what is on the Vaughn's affairs web site (www.vaughan-vaughan.com). There is a lot of useful information available and it's helped me realize a lot about myself, my wife, and our marriage. All I can say is thank God for the people that run these sites and thank you Lord for guiding me to them. I understand better now what happened to our relationship, and why my wife had the extramarital sex and affairs that she had, and even my role in causing them. In some ways I think now that I was lucky that it wasn't me that ended up having the affair, although I do believe that self-control and my own values did influence me along the way. The bottom line I guess is that there was plenty of blame to go around, and both of us wish what had happened had never happened. <P>But the reality is that she did have a long term affair with another man and it was very emotional and sexual. The reality is that she told me she would have left me for him if he had been willing to accept her himself (he was married too). The reality is that she also had at least one one-night stand with a man and one with a woman at the same time she was struggling with what she wanted. The reality is that while she was going through this emotional turmoil and decision-making process she left me out of the loop, unable to defend my marriage and maybe take steps to either win her back or end things. The reality is that several times when I confronted her with my suspicions, she flat out denied it all and tried to make me feel bad for not trusting her and thinking those things about her. The reality is that not only did she lie to me about her involvement with other people, she lied about all kinds of things, and as a result I can't believe in anything she says. So how do I live with this reality, and actually, why bother?<P>Any of you who are going through this type of breach of trust knows that it is a horrible, horrible feeling - one that you wouldn't wish even on your worst enemy. Probably no one deserves to have to go through what we are going through. Unfortunately we are going through it, and there is no way to avoid it. The feelings must be dealt with.<P>But as far as I see it when you boil it down, there are two ways to deal with it that would be productive in the long term:<P>1) Stay with the spouse that had the affair(s) and work through the issues, hopefully using the whole experience and what you learn on sites like marriagebuilders.com to make a strong, lasting marriage where both of you are happy and content.<P>2) Leave the spouse, taking with you what you have learned from what they did and your blame in it, and move on to a new relationship with a new person using what you have learned on sites like this one to make a new, strong, lasting marriage.<P>Before you decide too quickly which group you belong to, here are my thoughts and my dilemma, and why I'm having such a hard time deciding which group *I* fit into:<P>1) Let's say I decide to work things out with my wife. First let me be clear on something, and please don't doubt me: I love her deeply. I can't even picture my life without her; it is very painful to think of. There is a level of blame on my part, and I did make a vow before God to stick with it for better or worse, so running out could be seen as failing to accept my blame and the consequences of my own actions. In addition, there are things that I love about my wife and doubt I would find in the same combination in another woman. Provided she was willing to work things out with me and accept her own blame and its consequences, and so far she is acting this way for the most part, we should be able to be happy by following the advice on this site. But the down side would be that there would always be a sore spot between us. There would always be times when uninvited thoughts of her with the other man would pop into my head and destroy my mood and her being around will only ensure that I am reminded of them. There will always be doubts (even if they grow weaker with time) that shoot through my mind when she's late one night, or doesn't pick up the phone, or has to go out of town on business, just because she was able to have one-night stands before. Do I really want to stay with her if there are constant reminders of what happened and the pain that is associated with it? Is it fair to me or her? Finally, the work it would take for us to get from where we are now to where we'd like to be as a couple would be so much more than starting fresh with someone else because both of our love banks are in the red and it will take extra time and attention just to get them back level.<P>2) Now let's say I decide to leave my wife. Of course I would still have thoughts about what she did, but she wouldn't be there as a constant reminder and once I started dating again I suspect the recurrence of the thoughts would be much less than were I to stay with her (before you discount this as a valid reason to leave someone, think hard about how devastating the feeling is, and how when it hits it feels like someone knocked the wind out of you and spit on your face all at once. Wouldn't it be nice to not feel that anymore?). Of course there would be the emotional pain of separation which would be great and the realistic headaches of divorce and property concerns (for us there are no kids, which makes my situation much easier than others). But the up side would be that I know now how to quickly determine if a relationship would work out, and I no longer fear that my one chance at great love would be lost. This site has taught me that I can love anyone, and love them dearly and deeply as long as they are willing to meet my emotional needs. It would be inevitable; one day I would just love them. At the same time, I can find out what the emotional needs of the new woman are and work to satisfy them, and once again I can trust that one day she would love me deeply as well. I could talk to her early about what is important to me (the basic concepts expressed on this site) and see if she agrees and can live that way. It would be something that would be next to impossible to fake. In the end, a new, strong, happy marriage would be born. All without the emotional baggage, honesty issues, and painful memories that I would be saddled with if I stayed with my current wife. One last thought (and I know I'll get flak for it, but it's a realistic scenario so it deserves attention even if I don't think this way - it's too cold; besides you wouldn't want to base your future happiness on it): let's say I go out there and try to create a new love and a new marriage for myself and it doesn't work. The odds are that if I don't take too long to play the field I can come back to my wife on hands and knees, beg forgiveness, do things to fill up her love bank again, and win her back anyway. Then I'd never have to wonder would I have been better off with someone else. <P>I don't want people to think I'm not emotional about all this, or that I'm just cold and calculating. I'm just trying to step outside of myself and view the situation from an objective point of view so I can make the best decision for my life that I can. Trust me, I'm very emotionally drained from the whole experience. <P>So what to do? Color me confused…<BR>

whatever you do...take your time and make sure it is what you want. sometimes i struggle with the same decision. we have a son , thats a killer for me.<BR>let us know what you think is right.

Hello Slade<P> I to am burdend with this same problem. Only 3 weeks ago my wife confesed to me that she had been ssing someone at work. They have only been kissing but thouts of sex have enterd both of them. he to is married and has told my W that he would leave his W for her. They see each other evrey day and that is a constatnt reminder to me about what may still happen. I have chosen to try & stay and work things out. I don't Know if i ma the fool but it is my choice. I do love my wife very much and do feel that i did alot to couse this problem. So i to must take some blame. But as you the heart ache is overwelming. I have lost 28 lp in just 3 weeks. We are seeing counling & he has told me that he thinks so far that she does not have to quit her job. But he also said it may come to that. & if she says no then i no where i stand & then it will be time to move on. I hope my story will help you with your choices. I have read somany books thatmy mind is filled with so many different answers. I pray to God every day for his strength and guidence & onmly hope that he will help me make the right choices. good luck my friend i will Pray for you and your Wife

LotsofHope,<P>Thanks for you sympathy and prayers. Both are accepted with gratitude. <P>I read your post and your profile, and I'd like to say that I see a lot of hope for your relationship. I know it is hard to think of your wife emotionally close to and kissing someone else, but take heart in the fact that she came to you relatively early on before more mistakes had been made and both of you had been hurt more. Believe it or not you are very lucky. She obviously loves you and hopes things will work out or she wouldn't have bothered bringing anything up in the first place. Plus, she is willing to participate in activities to work on your marriage. View what has happened as your wake up call, and thank God that it came when it did. You can now move forward in your life and your relationship and hopefully never forget about each other again.<P>(BTW, one hell of a way to diet, huh? Maybe we should all get together one day and write a best-selling diet book - "The Affair Diet - Lose 50lbs in One Month Guaranteed". Not a diet I would have gone on given a choice, though...)<P>Good luck and God bless...

Slade-<BR>Wow, can I relate. I am on your same side, but I am a woman. I remember vividly making that exat same decision and all the same points came up. Here's what I did:<P>First of all, my husband had a four month affair with a co-worker EXACTLY one year ago. God, it was pure hell, for both of us. I was on this site for hours a day, gettig lots of help from dear K., HGB, Terri and others. You are right, it becomes a matter of choice. I chose to say with my husband, to "take him back" if you will. Why??<P>For a lot of the same reasons you listed, but I had some other things that helped me decide. <BR> #1, he is the father of my two boys. I knew I would find another husband some day, but he is their daddy, and there will never be another daddy to them. I know lots of step families make it, but it adds another obstacle.<P>#2 History...we go way back, met in 1986, married almost 8 years. You get to know a person pretty well. Yeah, sure, I could get to know others. Maybe even as well as him, but we have so much behind us. we can still laugh about college professors we shared, our first apartment, letters written during separations...Again, I could create a history with someone else, but I have it with him, and I like it.<P>#3- and here's the biggie.....I know that when I married him, I did not think for a second that he would ever do this "to me", if I did I never would have married him, right? Well, of course I am wiser now, and like you said, I would not marry someone else unless we had the whole "need meeting" thing down to an art, but...BIG but, we still would have to struggle to make it work. well, struggle is a bad word, but you know, work at it. Yes, the memories are there, and yes they bite...HARD, but also, like you said, just because you divorce, the memories do not fade.<P>#4 his committment to me. I have to be honest here, I doubt I could EVER find a man more committed to me than my husband is now. we are both now at a level of such complete awarenes that it would almost be impossible to find someone who understands the working of a marriage so well. There is no way we were evn anywhere near this level of awareness when we married, and I will tell you this.....I do not want to go through this again with someone else. They would have to have all their ducks in a row to fill his shoes.<P><BR>I am not saying stay with your wife, it all depends on if the two of you can be at the same place at he same time. We were lucky, we both came together the same time. We were both ready to grow. If either one of us had been ready and the other not, there is no way on God's green eathe we would havesurvived this nightmare. we have been heavy into recovery for eight months now, and let me tell you...it is oure heaven! <P><BR>Of course them memories haunt me, but it is the price you pay for happiness. Life gives us opportunities to reach higher levels. This is one of those times, take it and rejoice in the wonder!<P>Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>You will be stronger because of this.<P>

Dear Slade:<BR>I have to agree with Sally on this one too. She said everything pretty much in a nut shell although my H and I are not quite there yet, we are trying. I think your reasoning is quite valid, and believe me, there probably isn't any betrayed on this site that would say that they haven't had the same exact thoughts that you are having. I believe that it is perfectly normal and you have to do what you can live with. We all had our trust broken, they really know how to lie so well when they are trying to hide their affair. My H did same things and I did trust him, that's what hurt so bad. They were in an irrational state of mind. You know what my H said to me when I found out about it. He said. " You know, you think your so smart, have all your bases covered, nothing can touch you, and then you find out you weren't as smart as you thought you were." He knows how stupid he was, they don't live in reality at the time they are having their affair. It truly is a fantasy.<BR>I hope whatever you decide, that you find true happiness. Your W should feel awfully lucky she has a H like you. Hang in there!

All I can say is that there are no guarantees with anyone you are with, existing or new. Sorry to sound so blunt, but it sounds like you have taken the good years for granted (much as your wife did when she had her affair?). As tempting as it may be to end your marriage and start "fresh", there is still no guarantee. Also, you (seem) to predicate some of your decision on the idea that you could win your wife back after you divorced her. You may be sadly mistaken there. Your logic sounds alot like an un-faithful person. Hey, my marriage doesn't feel good right now, so I'm gonna toss it for someone new. Hmmm. My opinion? If your wife confessed in order to make a stronger marriage with you, it was a mistake for her to tell. She should have just fixed her fidelity problems on her own, cause it doesn't sound like you are up to the challenge.

Having been betrayed in my first marriage, there is still some sort of emotional baggage carried through to the 2nd. In some ways, my H pays for the sins of my X. I am wiser, and more cautious.<P>You might throw that into your measurements of pros and cons. <P>Would you be able to not project residual problems from this relationship onto the next? Would your next spouse be able to not project residual problems from a previous relationship on to your new marriage?<P>Just trying to give you another thing to think about.<BR>

Slade,<P>You've brought up some interesting points and you're right, it all comes down to a choice each of us has to make. But you know what? If you are struggling with making that decision, then your choice is already made....... <B>stay and fight!</B> If there is still love left, still something deep within you that holds you to your spouse, then that's your answer.....stay. <P>Like Student said, there are no guarantees in life. If you remain with anyone long enough, there's always going to be baggage. The baggage he or she brings to the relationship, along with the new baggage that results in the current relationship. Although we've all learned great relationship skills from MB and others, it's still inevitable that we will make mistakes. Hopefully not BIG mistakes like we made in the past, but mistakes nonetheless. There is no such thing as a <I>"perfect relationship"</I>.<P>What's the statistics? 50% of marriages end in divorce, but <B>75%</B> of <I>second</I> marriages end in divorce. Really doesn't make a great case for the <I>grass being greener</I> theory, does it?<P>So, all I'm trying to say is, if you're torn, then that's telling you that you should stay and fight for your marriage. If leaving was what you really should or want to do, you'd know it. There are people who hear their spouse has cheated, and they leave that same day and never look back. Those are the people who really didn't feel they had anything left fighting for. From what you wrote, I can tell you are definitely not in that category!<P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Slade,<BR>I am right there with you. I just recieved more devestating news from my W. While trying to win her back, She has informed me that she is involved with someone else. Ouch, I am struggling with the decision to throw in the towel or stay and fight. You bring up alot of excellent points, but so do the others. New woman says it best when if you are struggling then the decision is already made, but your point are very powerful. This thread has giving me more to think about.<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Slade,<P>The organization or your post tells me you've had some time to think about this. But maybe not too clearly.<P>If your were to take some time off and encounter your own thread later, as someone who was reading it, not living it, I expect you would see what I saw.<P>Assuming you represented yourself honestly, your course should be clear. You have no choice but to work to repair your marriage. <P>Your wife is the person you married. Your commitment is to her, regardless of her failings. But it is really more than that. If you had other failed relationships where your partner had been unfaithful, you would know by now that once it happens it never goes away.<P>Your wifes unfaithfulness has changed you. Regardless of who you are with in the future, that injured part of you will occasionally flare up whenever her phone call is late or her story doesn't quite make sense. There is no going back now. You have been permanently changed. Recognizing that will help you deal with your future problems that will come with it.<P>I am not saying the pain will always feel this intense or the angst so overwhelming. Nor do I believe that those feelings would be as prominent with another life partner. But let's talk about another life partner.<P>One of the neat things you have with your wife is history. You have said yourself that it would be difficult to find such a significant connection with someone else or "picture" your life without her. Think about that for a second..... How could you consider dating when your search for something better could result in your loss of your partner?<P>Besides, who's gonna want to date you right now? Certainly nobody healthy. You've just been run through the emotional meat grinder and healthy people recognize that in a minute.<P>You use the word "blame" a few times in your thread. I think a better word (especially if your are going to repair and redefine your marriage) may be "cause." If your wife is willing to share with you the causes behind her affairs and lies-you stand a lot to gain and learn about yourself. This an incredible opportunity that you cannot pass up. An opportunity I don't think many other people here are offered.<P>I believe you must take the hard path. If you truly love your wife and she is/was your everything, and she too is willing to put forth the hard work, sweat and tears-why wouldn't you?<P>If you give it your all and approach the process with as much energy, support and desire to change as is humanly possible-you cannot lose. Best case scenario is that you and your wife become close again and move forward toward whatever challenges face you in the future-only now closer than ever before.<P>Worst case scenario is that your marriage ultimately fails. However, in its failure you have gained an immense amount of insight as to what kind of partner you are; your strengths and weaknesses as a person. Things your can take with you and either discard as issues between you and your ex or take note of them as things your could improve about yourself. Treat each tidbid as an opportunity to grow, a catalyst for positive change.<P>Regardless of the outcome, through the course of trying, you will become irrevokably changed. The person who you were will be a memory.<P>If you remain married, you will be more attentive and in tune with you and your spouses needs.<P>If you lose the marriage, you still gain the insight and growth. The people you attract will be healthier and more aware-better communicators. And you will be in a place where you can recognize and treat these people with respect. You will cultivate better and more meaningful relationships.<P>Fail to put the work in now with your wife, and I believe you are destined to attract, couple and make the same mistakes with somebody else down the road.

First I want to thank each of you for taking the time to post a response. It's really nice to see how people reach out to others in times of need. A lot of interesting perspectives have been raised, and a lot of good points made.<P>I know that for my own good I need to come down off the fence soon; I can't afford to go one way or another without committing 100%. That would only end in heartbreak one way or the other. If I don't give my marriage all my effort, if I can't commit to my wife and satisfy her emotional needs because I am holding back or I'm afraid to get hurt, we won't heal as a couple. At the same time, if I decide to leave her but am not committed to it, I'll waffle back and forth and do neither of us any good.<P>For what it is worth, I'm leaning towards giving her a chance; I don't want to feel like I didn't try everything I could before I gave up. This is a good time to prove what I am made of and what kind of person I truly am. At the same time I don't intend to put myself through emotional abuse, either. Even if it's four steps forward for me and only one for her, as long as there is progress I'll have hope. But if we hit a wall and (*gasp*) get worse for a sustained period of time, I think I could leave with my head held high…<P>Hopefully what I've learned and what I am sharing with her about this site will do the trick and we can work together to have a great marriage. Wish me luck…