Nothing new to report but WH was not able to take me to dental appt so no chance to talk which is probably for the best.

Still have received no reply to email I sent to him 12 days ago which was in reply to one WH sent to me. He has said on 3 occasions that he will reply asap. I told him previously that I needed him to reply so that I would know where I stand and what he is thinking and that my solicitor is chasing me as she wants to know if I want to carry on with divorce (on grounds of adultery) or not so he knows its important. Obviously he is using delaying tactics but his answers will help me to know what to do next. I don't want to get a divorce, but in the case of adultery there is a time limit - I don't think he knows this but I could be wrong.

Should I forget about the email or gently remind him again that I would like a reply?

Give a date to let you know by and if he doesn't communicate with you then file the divorce action. I bet he finds a way to communicate then.

WH has just been to pick up DD and I took the oppotunity to ask him why he hadn't replied to my emails. After minutes of silence I said "honesty is the best policy, just spit it out". He replied "I'm not coming back".

Apparantly it wouldn't be fair on me and DD's as he is not 100% sure this he wants to come home so I asked him if he was 100% sure that he wanted to be with OW and he said yes, at the moment.

It then transpired that they have rented a house together and he plans to move in this week. He was under the illusion that I would allow him to take our youndest DD (eldest on a school trip) to meet her today. He didn't tell me this until just before they were due to leave but I told him in no uncertain terms that this was not going to happen and never will. He told me I was not being fair and that I can't stop him from letting OW meet DD's. I replied he hadn't been fair when he left us for OW and that I was protecting DD's from anymore upset. Besides, they don't want to meet her and this isn't about what he and OW want anymore.

I'm just so sad, a few weeks ago he was going to come home and work at our marriage and he ended the A but now he just wants to be with her. I feel like I did when he first left and I don't want to be that sad or in so much pain ever again. Please advise, I'm just sitting here crying at the mo.

Tarnsy,

Par for the course. Sounds harsh but he is full fledged WS.

Notice how he isn't even thinking about his children. How sad.

Report this in your request for separation and child custody hearings ASAP.

Do a full background check on the OW.

You have anger and need to channel it into something useful.
Anxiety may hit. Let the crying happen and if people ask, let them know there has been great tragedy in your family. I had axiety attacks in the car, at the store, in the middle of department meetings as well as at home. I learned NOT to hold back. In time they lessened but for me they were daily for about 2 months. Boy were my eyes dry by the end of those 2 months, then I got mad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Read about my stages of grieving and go read Love must be Tough (Dobson).

Let us know if you need to talk.

Hugz,
L.

Hi Orchid, thx for the reply.

Yeah, I noticed how he didn't think about our DD's. Our eldest arrived back from a school trip today expecting WH to pick her up but I arranged for one of the other mums to take me to collect her. I didn't want to tell her straight away but the first thing she asked is why wasn't her dad there so it ended up being one of the first conversations we had.

She was more angry than upset and stated that she didn't want to meet OW and why was WH moving in with OW when 4 weeks ago he was going to come home. WH came round to see DD's but I kept out of the way. After WH had left DD said that she wants to go see WH new house as it has a big garden as long as OW is not there. I tried to explain to her that although OW may not be there the 1st or 2nd time she visits, there will be a time when she is and that is what WH and OW want but I don't think she knows how devious these people can be.

Before WH left today, he said he'll talk to me tomorrow about picking DD's up (he usually takes youngest to girls brigade and then both to his mums for dinner) but I told him not to worry as I would take youngest as I had told him yesterday. He took this to mean that I am not going to let him see DD's and got a bit angry but as I said to him previously I won't stop him from seeing them but this isn't about what he wants, it's about avoiding anymore upset for DD's He replied that I can't dictate to him and I may have LB'd when I replied as I told him that this has all been about what he and OW want so far and it stops now, I haven't got what I want as despite everything I still love him and just want our family back together.

Does anyone think that I should go to plan B now?

Can anyone help? Is it time for plan B?

I am no expert at Plan B, but I will try to help.

It sounds like you are very close. some of the things to look for - are you close to losing your love for him? Plan B will help to protect the remaining love you have for him. Because the more you talk to him - and hear his babble - the more you will lose it.

Also - how was your Plan A? Do you feel like he has a good understanding now, of how things could be if he would just return? (as I recall - your Plan A was great - even before you knew what it was!)

How will you work out the logistics of a great Plan B? Who can act as your mediator? What about time spent with the girls? How will you handle the drop offs? These are all things to get in order right now.

I would suggest that for now, you get something in writing with him that outlines visitaion with the girls. An actual schedule, in writing. Soemthing you can stick too pretty close. That way, later on, you will not have to get messages back and forth about their schedule. Right now, while you are not in Plan B, tell him that you would like a written schedule for his visitaions. Go ahead and schedule as many details as possible, send a copy to him by email, and then prepare your Plan B letter.

This whole thing stinks. Everyone will agree with that. But I wouldn't get too worried about him living with her. That is a great way for him to see the whole truth about her.
Right now, they are both on their best behavior. And the A is wonderful right now! She thinks that he never stinks up the bathroom! He thinks that she will be happy and loving all the time. He will feel great just being with her! But you know better. After all - he is just a man. And she is just a woman. Neither of them is "special" enough to be able to make this work.

Your WH is going to really see the truth - and the day will come when he will know, for sure, that OW was not something special after all. If he had stayed with you that last time - he would have always wondered how it would have been. This way - he will not wonder.

I still have great hope for your M. I know it is hard! But things are not any worse now. He has been thinking about moving in with her for a long time. The only thing new, is that he finally got the nerve to tell you. Nothing has changed - it is just coming out to the light - and an A can not survive the light.

All WS's are in a hurry to introduce the kids to their home wrecker. My WxH left on a Wednesday (4 years ago today in fact). Just 3 days later - on a Friday night, he showed up to take the boys to dinner, and dropped them off afterwards. I thought nothing of it. The next morning, my sister-in-law told me that she saw him, in our truck, with a woman sitting next him, and my boys in the back seat! My boys! it never occured to WxH that it was a bad idea. He was in a fog. he wanted everyone to meet her, and make their A normal. But it didn't work out that way.

Later, when his A fell apart, he showed me emails from her (long story) where she would talk about how wonderful their lives would be with their 4 kids ! (my 2 plus her 2) and they would live happily ever after! WHAT??

After that first time meeting OW - my WxH did not bring the boys areound her agian for months. Apparantly it didn't go well. I am sure everyone was tense - and the happy love bubble began to burst. I am now re-married to a wonderful man. he has a 6 year old daughter who is with us 50% of the time. I love her, and she loves me, but she still talks about her Mom ALL THE TIME. And even though I get along with her mom just fine, and my R with her Dad has never been based on lies - I still don't enjoy hearing about her Mom ALL THE TIME. it gets old. Can you imagine how OW would react when your DD's talk about you?

So - I hope that your DD's never meet this wh*re. But if they do - it will be one of the worst things that can happen for your WH. Becuase every time he looks at the girls, he will know that what he is doing is worng. And when they say things like "Daddy - remember when you and Mommy to us to the park?" it will put another knife in his heart - and OW will not like it at all.

For now - keep reminding him that you can build a new, better M. But if he insists on staying with OW, then you need to have a visitaion schedule in writing.
You love him and beleive in him, but if he insists on living with OW then you need to have him put into writing how much child support he will pay. This can all be done by email if necessary.

And after you have it all figured out - then go to plan B. Boom! Just like that.

Plan B will show him what life would really be like after D. I am sure he thinks you would be friends. That he would be free to phone you whenever he likes. That you would be sad for awhile, but eventually everything would "all settle down" and everyone would get on just fine. Your Plan B will show him the truth. That you would never be friends with someone who treats you this way.

By the way - this line:


Is great! I am very proud of you! You are taking back the control of your own life, and that is a good thing.You can still love him, and still fight for your M, but that does not mean that he and OW get to make all the decisions about your life.

The first thing these waywards want to do is legimize everything. We are soulmates, why can't you be happy for us no matter how devestated you are, just get over it.

WELL, BS, it will never be okay fot the BS. The WS that chooses to marry/cohabitate w/ the OP has made it impossible for the BS to ever have anything but spite, anger, disgust with them in the future.

Tell your DD's to state their wish to not be involved with OW and if H betrays their wishes then he can live with the consequences.

WOF5, I am thinking about going to plan B in 3-4 weeks when the kids break for the summer holidays. This will give me the chance to plan A some more as we have school activities to attend and our youngest DD's birthday.

In the meantime I can set up an intermediary, probably mutual friends who have supported me throughout all this turmoil. I can then take the opportunity to work out when he will have DD's as weekend sleepovers are no longer an option. He will have to be satisfied with taking them out for the day and bringing them home each evening.

I agree that WH needs to see that OW is not the fantasy based person he probably thinks she is and that living together will prove this to him. OW works fulltime whereas I only worked part-time so that I could be there for DD's. WH always had a dinner ready for him when he came home from work and I took on most of the household duties. I wonder if she will be willing or able to take care of him in this way especially as apparently she is paying the rent on their house. I'm not saying I was the perfect little wife, not by a long shot, but I'm sure things will be different for WH now.

Thx for telling me some of your story, it helps to know that what WH is doing is "normal" by WS standards! My WH is obviously still in the fog to such a degree that he can't see that meeting the OW would be traumatic for our DD's. I'm probably doing him a favour by not letting them meet her as I'm sure it wouldn't be long before one of them said something along the lines of "hey dad, remember the other weekend when you stayed at our house and slept in mummy's bed!". I'd love to be a fly on the wall if that happened!

As for him finding out what it would be like to not have me in his life at all, I warned him weeks ago that if this whole A went any further then I wouldn't be his friend. I told WH he could have all of me or none of me but not just a part of me. Soon he will find out that I meant that.

I sent him a couple of emails yesterday telling hime how much we all loved and missed him and how I know that we can put out marriage back together and that it will be better than it ever was but that I will never allow DD's to meet OW. I don't think I'll get many chances to talk to him face to face now as when he drops DD's home now he doesn't stay (obviously got to get back to the ho!) whereas before he'd often stop for an hour or so. But we do have the school stuff to attend together so I'll have to make the most of these opportunites.

H&P, my WH has invited our DD's to visit his house (I can't call it his home as that is here with me and DD's) when OW is not there but I still feel that this would be legitimizing his R and would only be a stepping stone to getting them to meet OW. How do they justify the fact that they are living with the OP when thay are married to someone else? WH wouldn't live with me till we were married but that hasn't stopped him this time. WH says he won't marry her or have children with her (she hasn't got any) so I wonder where all this is leading. WH says they haven't discussed these issues so I doubt she knows that this is as much committment as she is going to get.

Our DD's have told WH that they don't want to meet OW and I told him that if he takes them without my knowing then I shall rethink how often he gets to see them but I don't want DD's to suffer.

How are you doing today?
thinking of you!

Thx WOF5, appreciate your thoughts.

Not doing too bad today. Have only had email and tm contact with WH the past couple of days but took the opportunity to plan a some more.

Told WH that he broke my heart yet again with this weekends news but that I'm still willing to leave the door open for his return and that I love and miss him very much as do DD's. But whatever happens I'm still not letting OW meet DD's as this would be another trauma in their short lives. Reminded WH that he used to say that we must be attached to each other by elastic as however bad things got we always came back together. Not that anything like the A has happened before but we had a "passionate" R and often took our anger out on each other but we always made up the same day. I never believed in going to bed on an arguement!

It was quite an emotional email and his reply was too, saying that my words were not falling on deaf ears and that he believed that I still love him whereas before he thought that my love had died like his had (this upset me a bit as 6 weeks before Dday it was our anniversary and he said he loved me then).

Got to take my daughters friend home now but shall add more later and may try to copy and paste part of emails here.

Thx for you support WOF5.

Tarnsy

Ok, I'm getting angry with WH now. He has just sent me another email stating that he has a bedroom ready for DD's at his new house. Replied reminding him that they are NEVER going to stay there and please respect our decision on this matter.

Why doesn't he listen to me? I don't know how many times I've told him this isn't going to happen. Right from the word go I warned him that if he and OW moved in together, weekend sleepovers would cease but still he persists.

Plan B is getting nearer all the time.

I would suspect that OW is pushing him.
After all, he dumped her once before. This time, I am sure she is trying to do everything she can to latch onto him - if she isn't part of the girls' life, then she is not really a big part of his life. It is sad really.
It makes me think of my 20 year old step son and his wife. When they were dating, their R was on-and-off all the time. the last time they broke up, and then got back together, he signed up for a mobile phone plan, with her, on a 2 year contract. It was crazy - becuase prior to that, his dad was paying for his Mobile phone, so he had a free phone. then he went to the store, and signed up for a 2 year plan with his girlfriend. His dad could not understand why, and I said "actually, it is obvious. he is doing everything he can - short of marriage - to make their R more solid. He figures that if they have this 2 year mobile plan, then they won't break up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

A stupid idea -but typical of 2 kids who are not making wise chouces.

That is your WH right now. A kid who is not makeing wise choices.

Maintain your own stability. Keep your answers short and consistent. "thank you for you email, I just want to remind you that OUR girls will not be staying there, with your girlfriend. OUR girls are all ready quite upset at the break up of their family, and I do not want to further traumatize them by exposing them to OW" (by the way - prior to this affair, would your WH say that it would be OK for his Daughters to live with BF outside of M? Is this an example that he would want to set for them?)

Of course - I don't need to give you advice on what to say - you have great intuition.

Start preparing for Plan B. You need to protect your love for him.

In fact - this may be a good time. Now that I think of it - if he is feeling lost and alone at the apartment - and trying to bring pieces of family into his new life, this may be a good time to show him what life will really be like if he gets a D.

What is the legal sitaution like over there, with kids? do you need to get some sort of visitation schedule in writing with him before you go to plan B?

Bob Pure would be a great one to help you - he lives in the UK as well.

I agree with you WOF5, OW must be pushing to meet our DD's, it has only been since they moved in together that he has said anything about meeting her since New Year.

Your suggestion for my reply to his email was close to what I wrote although mine was a bit longer and I ended by telling him that there was only one thing that would make our daughters happy and that was for him to come home and that we all loved and missed him. Thx for saying that I have great intuition BTW!

It's too easy over here to get a divorce, I saw a solicitor back in Feb who said I could divorce him for adultery which he has admitted. He would have to divorce me for unreasonable behaviour(!) but I know that he can't afford the cost of going to court.

As for a visitation schedule, I don't know what I'm legally required to do, but I have no probs with him keeping more or less to what we already have in place with the exception of them staying over weekends and meeting OW.

Thx for the call to Bob Pure, he replied to one of my earlier posts and had good advice.

The thing I am concerned about, is that usually the next step is for the WH is start being mean to his BW. Lashing out, looking for reasons to be angry with you. He really has no good excuse for leaving his wife and children. anytime he sees a friend, or family memeber, he will likely be confronted about this, so he will start looking for excuses. also, he wants to make you angry, so you will stop loving him. That will help to ease his guilt.

Furthermore, typically, his OW will start pushing even harder. she is all ready telling him things like "Tarnsy is just trying to keep the girls from you, that is not right, this is your home and you have a right to have the girls spend the night, you need to fight her, you need to see a solicitor right away, this is not fair"

If the two of them could start telling everyone that you are mean, you will not let him see his girls, that he has to fight for visitation, and you are too controlling, that would give them just the sort of excuses they are looking for.

And when you go to plan B, that would give them more fuel for the fire. they will say "look at her, now she won't even talk to him! She is so mean!"

Of course, we all know better. But this is what usually happens next in this situation. So prepare yourself. You know what to expect - so make plans now to stop them.

If you could get something in writing, perhaps even via email, saying specifically what days, and what times, he will have visitaiton, then you will have proof that you are not trying to keep him from the girls, only from the adulterous, home wrecking, Ho. and now is the time to get something written up, while you are still in plan A. Then, when you have the boundaries in place, you can hand him the Plan B letter and cut off all contact. You will be able to say "your parenting plan is in writing, please refer to it"

I really think Plan B will be good for you.

Tell me more about this OW - what do you know about her?

One other thought - it is very common here in the States to have a statement in writing that says "neither parent is allowed to have an over night guest, of the opposite sex, that they are not married to, when the girls are spedning the night.

you have it written up as "neither parent can do this" so that he can not say "if I can't do it - neither can you" (as if you would) and you state that there can be no overnight stay.

Because the reality is that eventually, if he pushes it, he could have the girls meet OW - BUT you can usually put a stop to overnight guests at least.

Just a thought.

Hi, flower.

Just speed-read your thread. Hmm.

Firstly you're RIGHT to keep OWs mitts off your kids.

In my experience WS and OPs love to get involved in the kids lives because they believe it will legitimize their grotesque relationship.

And kids will forgive and play along a lot easier than betrayed adults will, because they have little power in adult / child relationships.

Doing what makes daddy happy is good when mommy's not around. Look what dreadful abuse THAt has led to in many cases ?

I agree with WOF that you should work out a visitation schedule for him seeing the kids.

So that you aren't made to feel like you ar eunreasonable, or are "punishing" OW, state the facts: that you will always be the kids mother, but statistically speaking, only 5% of affair relationships last 5 years and only 2% of THEM get married, the odds are highly stacked against the trauma to the kids of meeting OW being a worthwhile long term investment.

I also believe that this is a good time to plan B. Very dark.

You need to escape the chaos of his ghoulish mess and he needs to miss you.

Don't fart about for ages like most hopeful BS do, tarnsey, arrange a go-between and go utterly black.

It brings a bag of consequences to his door and portectc you from daily pain.

Regarding UK MC, they're almost all useless. Relate is an arbitration service, not pro marriage at all. Only marriagecare is a decent MB-like service.

all blessings

Thx for the forewarning! Sounds like things are just gonna keep on getting better and better!!

I see what you mean about them using things against me like not allowing DD's to stay over but how can I prevent this? Should I tell "friendly faces" how I feel about the OW meeting DD's and that this would be detrimental to their future happiness?

I shall definitely put something in writing with reference to visitation before plan b.

I know very little about the ho. She grew up round here but only returned last year. Did hear via friends that WH said at the time when he was going to come home that he was seeing her faults and that she was full or herself. Somebody very close to WH said "I hate her, she is a f***ing b*tch!"
I need to get more info on this! Other than rumours, I know what she does for a living but not where and know nothing about family and friends. May have to take previous advice about getting a PI but funds are v low at the mo.

Will keep in mind advice about over night guests, definitely not something I am going to do! WH has already said that if I get a BF and he comes to my home then it's only fair that OW gets to see DD's. Why would I allow my DD's to meet someone I've never met? I wouldn't allow them to go round some strangers house! But would this work if it's OW's house, WH is apparently not paying anything to stay there at the mo but I guess that will change v soon.