Am a newbie - just got my copy of Surviving the Affair and am reading.

My wife insists that the A ended in 2002. OM stopped seeing her. Our marriage has never been the same (obviously there were issues beforehand as well). it has been very loveless.

I brought up a conversation the other day asking why we were together. We were not a couple but a team helping to raise children.

She suddenly seemed to change. She is very affectionate, says she wants to work it out. Is talking about the affair answering my questions ( not always with complete truth)

OM does not work with her anymore, but every other month his business takes him into her office. She says her sends texts when he is coming. She insists the she always avoids meeting him on these occasions.

OMW does not know what happened. Do I tell her. it has been years ( if I believe her) since they were physical. If I do it , am i doing it as revenge against om and only hurting omw.

when people talk about exposure and NC letters here, it is usually in context of stopping an active A.

Yes tell her. She has a right to know. Also it will give OM some acountability.

Got cut off. There is still contact between OM and WW. Even an SMS message is contact. I would go further and expose to OMW. I would have WW write an NC letter email. If OM's only motive is to ensure he and WW don't bump into each other, I would make OM agree to text ME before his visits and I would advise my WW to stay away.

Or I would have my WW quit her job and work some place else. This contact should never be allowed.

OMW has a right to know what her husband is up to. If you were in her place, wouldn't you want to know? I would.

Thanks PIO for your thoughts, she makes it sound like he is texting to stop by and say hi.

I tell you, this all really sucks.

Yes it does.

If OM is sending these kinds of emails to WW, this is a no-brainer. Expose the b_stard. He is not a friend to your M. Your WW may not want to hurt him. Most WW's want to protect OM. Big mistake. What you need to do is protect your M. You are still at risk. Please expose the b_stard.

So WW says she avoids being around on those days.

Let me put it a different way.

OM texts and, each time, WW is not around.

So OM eventually gets smart and DOESN'T text to catch her by surprise.

I'm not sure I believe that WW is avoiding OM but, even if she is and is being honest, sooner or later they will meet. If nothing else, he'll wait in the parking lot till she gets off work.

I'm not joking. This guy wants to destroy your marriage. Send the devil back to he11 where he belongs. Expose him.

To add my 2 cents... your WS is just that, a WS. Simply because she has not had complete NC, and is still not telling you the truth.

A WS lies. ALL THE TIME. My WS used to tell me she didn't stick around the office when the OP was around, I believed her. OK, I didn't believe her actually, but I forced myself to believe her, and eventually the A developed and here I am today, divorce papers signed and all.

I opt for exposure as well. Would your WS consider changing jobs so she won't even have a 'chance' encounter??

Expose,Expose, Expose!!!!

Please do not make the same mistake that I did. I did not tell OWH after dday1. (I didn't know about MB) It was the single hugest mistake that I made. It allowed OW to have no consequences for her actions and in turn allowed her to keep pursing my H (behind my back, of course) This helped allow a dday#2. The fact that my H continued contact was even more devastating. And almost ended my M forever. Help prevent that pain. EXPOSE!!!!

Remember, A are like addictions. The OM is absolutely continuing to pursure you WW, and believe me, I'd bet your W is not being totally honest.You need to do more digging.

Also, no matter what happens the OMW has every right to know. When I finally told OWH after dday2, he was so hurt that I hadn't told him sooner and I absolutely regret it.

wait wait wait...

back it up...

your official D-Day is 6-24-07??
meaning you are less than a month from finding out...

how why did you you find out about the affair...

how why did the affair "end" according to your wife...

and why for years have YOU allowed your marriage to become a room-mate situation....
and what is YOUR plan to fix YOUR issues with treating your wife so...

AND
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

have you and she contacted a marriage counselor...
what are her reported "reasons" for the affair....

how much is she has she disclosed....
etc etc etc...

exposure is PART of the plan/process...but no good will come from picking parts and pieces of it without all of it in place....

ARK

YES, expose to OMW. Everyone here is absolutely correct in saying that OM is still pursuing your W. You are lucky that she shared this information with you.

Look at it this way. OMW has a right to know, and you also have a right to protect your M. I exposed myself to OMW (my H did not want to... he wanted to make OM accountable and do it himself... HA.) Eventhough my A was over... I WANTED it to be over... OM approached me one day and I talked to him... cried with him... got sucked in to speaking with him again... even after H and I were doing so well and just completed MC. OM continued to pursue me for a long time, and one day I caved. I was ashamed and disgusted with myself. I told H about the contact, and told OMW. After that, I NEVER heard from OM again. He pursued me for almost a year after I ended the A... on a weekly basis. As soon as I told his W, I NEVER heard from him again. Never! I was pretty angry at myself for not exposing sooner.

MB principles are dead on... exposure is a key element in ending an A! Please tell OMW... for her truth and sanity and the health of your M.

KM

The OMW was hurt by the affair. Telling her the truth will not hurt her, it will help her. She must know that her husband and your W are a DANGER to she and her children so she can protect herself. And your W is very much a danger as long as the affairees continue to see each other.

Not telling her, leaves the OM free to pursue your W and other women, so if you want to help the OM in that regard, just keep his secret for him.

You are probably looking at years of affair in your future as long as they continue to see each other at work and text each other. She should quit the job if you want to salvage your marriage. I am going to guess that your marriage has been somewhat cold for the past 5 years and this why. She has never fully withdrawn from her affair. Every time she sees him, puts her back to DAY ONE of recovery and greatly increases the odds of a resumption.

This is like sending a recovering alcoholic into the bar every day to test his will. Inevitably the weak moment collides with opportunity and the affair is back into full swing again.

Here are Harley's words about ending contact FOR LIFE. If you don't believe his warning, I can point you to a few on again, off again affairs that lasted for 13 years, 10 years, and 5 years by ignoring this warning.

I am the worlds greatest corner cutter, and this is not a corner I would ever cut. If my H did not end all contact with his OW, knowing what I know today, I would move right to divorce rather than endure years of on-off again affair.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Dr. Harley's words: "But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. "

Thank you everybody (PIO,Dev, jaded, ark, KM and Melody)for your responses. I really appreciate the support and help available here. I truly wish I had known something like this site was available when I first began to suspect that she was in an A in 2000. I sort of just wallowed in self pity thinking there was nothing for me to do. I feel incredibly stupid.

I have lost years of my life and potentially happily married years if I was able to follow through on the necessary steps.

Ark, wy wife claims affair was from around 8/2000 - 5/2002. I accused her twice throughout this time of having an affair. The first time, she sweetly soothed me saying that it was not true. I had no proof that time, just a hunch. The second time I had proof and this time she took a different tactic. She got mad at me, yelled and denied the whole thing. Both times, i dropped it and she got her way.

I had a feeling that the A had ended around when she claims they did. She was mad all the time. Particularly at me. I understand now that she was in all likelihood beginning withdrawal. We became roomates during the A and that has continued to this day. It has been a pretty unhappy marriage. Before the affair, I realized we had our issue , things were sort of routine etc.. , but I always though we would work through it.

On 6/24 I approached her telling her that I was unhappy with the marriage, saw no future as we did nothing together. We did not share any time or moments of intimacy. We were not a couple , but roomates who were raising children.

At this point she sat down next to me, held my hands, said she was sorry, admitted to the A and answered a number of questions that i asked about with at least a believable amount of truth (it is hard to know what to believe when you think about the number of lies told throughout the A).

It ended when OM pulled away when OMW got pregnant. It wasnt clean break, just a lessening of meetings until it eventually stopped in 5/2002. At least that is her version. The fact that she said he left her gives her some credibility in my mind.

We have spent a great deal of time together since 6/24. Spending time together after work, going to bed at same time( we never did that). We talked about finding some activities we could do that we both enjoy. She actually watched a war movie with me ( bridge too far- great movie), which she has never done.

We have the book "surviving the affair" . She said she wants to read it after me.

Her reasons for the affair was that he paid attention to her, made her feel special. She respected him a lot initially, he was successful at work ( he earns more money than I do; which she reminded me of more than once) and she had to work with him a lot. She liked the fact he paid his wife a lot of attention and gave her nice presents. (it did not occur to her that he was also screwing around on her)

WW only admits to kissing the OM. I find that impossible to believe in a two year A, in which she travelled with the OM on business trips and I travelled a number of times on business myself. Of course, how I found proof was stumbling on a box of female contraceptives in her work bag. She says that she was tempted but did not use them. 1 was missing from the box when I found it.

sadandconfused51,

The OM sounds like a real predator...and your WW is the trophy. As tough as it will be, you may want to confront this guy and give him the "leave my wife alone, or else" kind of speech. Be prepared for him to say really nasty things about your WW...things the OM knows will hurt you even more.

Your WW in the meantime may never really come clean about all the details of her A with the OM. It's going to be up to you if you will continue to trust her and work on her M. Saving the M takes two people who are willing...not just by one spouse desperate to make the other stay.

Lots of luck to you.

Devastated, I understand what you mean by forcing yourself to believe (or at least believe she MAY be telling the truth).

I agree about the still a WS as I still doubt some of her details. She says they talked about having sex but decided for their spouses sake not to go through with it.

I can honestly say she could not have cared one iota for my feelings based on how mean she was to me during the A and that she wanted nothing to do with me.

SAC,

Sounds to me like WW is lying. She is trying to tell you convincing lies. She wants to make you the bad guy for not trusting her. Waywards are truly amazing in this capacity.

If she is lying, she is still wayward. That means she is still involved, on some level, with OM. She wants to keep the fantasy alive. As long as she lives this fantasy, she will never be your wife.

You say she hasn't been engaged in the marriage for 5 years. That's because she is married to the fantasy.

WW will twist, turn, invery everything to make you believe that you're wrong and you're the bad guy and she is totally innocent. I saw my own wife do this too many times. I wanted to believe her. I was wrong.

Passionpeach, I understand that at some point I will have to accept that she will not tell more, decide whether that is enough (if not everything) and then move on.

I dont want to know how many time they had sex, and their positions and pet names etc... Just an acknowledgement of what she did. Part of me is having a hard time accepting an apology that is not actually including having sex with another man while married to me. I am just venting, but thanks for listening and replying. It really helps.

I have not talked to anyone but the board here and my wife , so I appreciate the company.