Besides no contact... what else is in your letter? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Her wanting to "discuss" the letter means that she wants to "negotiate" what the terms mean. There should be NO negotiation on YOUR terms to return to the M. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Now I will ask you again:
Can you envision a future with your WW if she does not agree to the conditions of your letter? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Personnally, I would have sent back my mantra, Along with a note to contact me only through the intermediary unless it is a real emergency. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Congradulations on making it through your first serious test. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BTW... You did send your intentions through your intermediary didn't you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> not a direct text message I hope? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong

well here goes ,met with ww talked for two hours , stood my ground with no contact . she said plan b letter just confirmed that i hadnt really changed and that i still couldnt talk to her . but i said i felt my love for you was dying and we had no future with om in picture , asked for a descision separate and divorce for closure to me ,or no contact with om and we rebuild our future but i told her i want her to be sure with her descision .
she chose no contact but wouldnt write letter ! i tried to force itbut no go she said she will finish with om tom night an clear out his stuff.i said can i call her after she said of course . iasked her to be honest and tell me if she would sleepwith him of course she said no .she also said she loves him but hes not what she wants . i said i understand that .
now heres the bit that bothers me . i feel ive forced her hand and she hasnt made the descision herself ,but is scared of losing security from me . i feel i should let her finish with him call and ask to go over and talk , when i will tell her that when she is sure its over (i will help her through it )then she should move back to me in a new place .she wont return to our house because it was the cause of many of our troubles . i just feel if we move straight back together with our child + my ex wifes child 3xaweek (another sorce of conflict) we wont have adreesed any of the problems we have and it will be to much ...advice ....help please

Good! Was there anything you didn't stand your ground on?



blah blah blah. Pure unadulterated fog babble. Ignore it!



Your WW is ADDICTED to her OM. Her mind is in no shape to make any decision other than to preserve her "fix". No matter what WW tells you her decision is.



Was this one of you Plan B letter requirements? Things do not bode well if it was!



There is no such thing as "closure" with an OP / OM. This is just another way for WW to get her OP / OM "fix" If you let them hook up they will say there goodbyes... in whatever form they chose... until the next time. They will simply take their contact deeper underground. And be more careful about hiding it.



To be perfectly honest... what else could she say at that point?



Remember... Cheaters lie... and they are very good at it. Besides... what else could she say?



blah blah blah. Pure unadulterated fog babble. Ignore it!



BINGO! YOU are currently her backup plan in case things don't work out with OM. We also refer to it as "cake eating".



I most HIGHLY DO NOT RECOMMEND that you let WW do this. No Contact starts right NOW!



Would you care to elaborate on that a little?



But you will be together and you can start to work things out WITHOUT outside influence. THAT is you best hope!

To be perfectly honest, if she does agree to move back in with you I suspect that contact will start with her OP / OM again. YOU will have to be watchful about that.

This will be my last post tonight. See you in the A.M.

Stay Strong!

ok guys some serious help needed here .as you may know ww is in councilling for alcohol prob. after last nights desicion to move back together she calls me to discuss future . ww has issues with our marital home (belonged to previous wife aswell) + previous marriages daughter . mainly jealousy +viualising me and ex .

after councilling today she realised that if we get back together even in a new house theese problems are not sorted ..i agree .plan b was a massive lb we always agreed to talk .. this was my main problem and her no1 need .

we both felt that to get together would be wrong and i have to say i agree ,we discussed arrangment for looking after our child and agreed to talk if only for a childs needs (future schooling etc). she feels we have no future at the moment ,she will still see om ,she knows she has no future with him and will never allow him to seeour son .i have to say i do agree with all this ,i realise this man will hurt her eventually ,it may take a while but he will , where do i go from here .i still want to save this but i realise this is a long term project ... any help please any one withh alchol experience please help .

you know i think my best chance is to go back to plan a ,ww just wants to talk to me all the time (mostly on the phone ) if i call her and say can we talk even if om is there she will .we talk very openly and honestly now .after one talk she even said i really miss you sometimes .i even told her my ex wife told me she still loved me ..she flipped but we talked and at the end she thanked me for telling her . i dont know please help .i know she needs to sort her inside out first before we have a chance but she is. the shift of blame is slowly ebbing away from me and onto her and her issues .all you gurus please come in and give me your wisdom

Plan B is done after a solid plan A. Its done when the BS feels the need to protect themselves from losing the last vestiges of their love for their WS. They go to plan B to prevent the WS from making more massive withdrawls from their lovebank with the enormous lovebusters that WS's toss out like candy.

Have you done a solid, stellar plan A?

Are you in danger of losing your last bits of love for your wife?

If the answer to both is yes, then go to plan B. If the answer to either is no, you need to shore up your plan A and make it happen.

I'd suggested earlier that you might try breaking your posts down with punctuation and paragraphs to make it easier. You're likely to get response from more posters if your posts are easier to read. Just a suggestion.

i thought i had , but it was only for 6 weeks ,i met her financial needs ,communication, even domestic ,still done her washing


i suppose i got desperate and panicked ,mainly because this guy has lots of women.he is very very good at holding them,hes totaly upfront from the start , he obviously lies about sleeping with them all . he tells them he loves in his own special way .


i know for a fact my ww has a big need no3 on her list for family commitment . i try to make every time with our son the best -better than hers i can do this easily because we are really connnected ,he is the image of me . comments?

Hi Englander,

I am just sending a message of support for your Plan B....when sent the Plan B letter...one of the most important things was to copy the OW....she went crazy and started yelling at FWH...and then I went completely dark. He would call and call...but I knew that I needed to save any feeling I had left for recovery...it is so true. I can also say that I took back FWH too soon in the first Plan B because I thought he was committed to the terms...but sadly he continued contact.

The second time I went to Plan B....it was quick and completely dark.....I had to move out of our house and he did not know where I was.....but it worked that time.

Englander, you have done many things right by setting up contact with FIL and trying to resist the temptation to respond....I hope you will stay strong in the darkness...it will help you for the future road...when I was going through it...I didn't understand why, but I tried to follow it all the same....I look back now and see all the guidelines are in place fore really good reason.

It helped me to have something planned for each day that I looked forward to....like a movie, working out or even something simple.....that may help you to endure the time until she comes out of the fog....the darkness totally serves a purpose of protecting you.

thanks for the response ,but i dont think i did plan A long enough or well enough ,the most annoying thing is her emotional needs questionaire arrived the day she got plan b letter. she opened my eyes a bit earlier when she told me all i care about is shes having sex with someone else ,and i should worry more that they communicate ... blah blah .but i do get her drift ,she is so fixed on talking ,


she is also very concerned about finances ,and this guy wont support her -he is a financial wreck ...plan A
what do you think? work on me ......

Remember Plan A is a marathon. You are in it for the long haul. It usually requires MONTHS of Plan A before before WW will start to think that MAYBE the changes that she sees are for real and they MIGHT be permanent. Also be aware that she may get very ANYGRY at you for this. "WHY DIDN'T YOU DO THIS BEFORE I CHEATED???? WHY DID YOU HAVE TO CHANGE NOW?!!!" Will come to WW's mind. It plays havoc with the justifications that they used to justify their affairs.

Englander,

Don't feel bad about not being able to do Plan A for very long....everyone has their own tolerance and I think Dr. Harley has written that men are generally unable to do it for very long anyway. I did Plan A for about 7 months and it took a toll on my feelings for FWH...very personally draining as well as reducing to almost nil my feelings for him.

Because she calls you so much is an indication that she like many WS want to "cake eat" which means you probably fill some of her EN's....so you did some good in Plan A...also you have a kid together which is a bond.

Have you read the MB materials on the web site? Have you read the books as well? Coming to the board and reading the materials...will help you to make it through. Also are you in a position to consider phone coaching with MB. I first tried to go it alone, but within a few months started coaching with Steve. It is one of the best things I did and probably the only reason we are still married. Is that a possibility?

Hang in there....Englander....you will get lots of help on the board...stick with MB and stay strong. SS

So what are you going to do Englander?

Plan A or B?

Our advise is dependent upon what plan you are in at the time.

We'll do our best to help you through either plan. But the choice of which plan is YOURS.

im going to plan a ,reasons;

she loves to talk to me ,
she is very tight on money (he has none)
she is getting treatment for alcohol.and seems to blame me less,
i am very practical (car mechanic) she needs that ,
we have a child whom is her whole world ,i can work with that ,

om weakness is ,
finances ,lies a lot ,not practical,scared to death of commitment .

what do you think guys ,i know i rocked her world with plan b ,but i didnt have the childcare side tight enough ,plan a for at least 2 months or more ,then b with a lot more thought ..

just a recap on my situ.

dday mid end of april
ww had already said she wanted space.ww moved out mid may .

found mb end may

started plan a 5 weeks ago .ww has drink problem -not bad -caused by three years of me not listening ,mainly her not wanting to live in my ex wifes house + daughters continued naughtiness when she stays with us.


ww now in ic for drink -still sees om (was her boss)

sees om about 3-4 times a week (estimate)

a fully exposed (see exposure with a twist )
lost all friends apart from one . all family will not support affair ,all family know guy is serial adulterer. +sees several women each week.

went to plan b on sunday .ww went nuts about 100 phone calls 200 txt .all about we must talk about our son ,
ww met with me mon eve agreed to nc + we move into rented house and recover .

ww went to ic wed pm .rang wed eve said we need to talk .

she said this will not work ,.iagreed ic said she needs to sort herself out before the relationship . i do agree with this , she also said she musnt return to the relationship just because she feels that she has broken the family .

wasnt sure how to interpret that ?

ww said we need time ,she wants to talk all the time at the moment (mainly eves =morn) after talking to our 3 year old son .

she is still seeing om .she told me sorry but she loves him .she also said she knows he is different .not a family man ,she just loves him .

man that hurt ,,,but i said i know you do and that hurts me .

now decided to go back to plan a for at least 2 months more .

will need some plan a questions answered later .
any help support is whats keeping me sane.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

This post was shamelessly stolen from Pep! (Thanks Pep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Now for YOUR work assignment for today: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I want you to think about in what way you may be ENABLING this affair to continue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And how YOU can put pressure on them to end the affair. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Post back and tell me what YOU think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong!

not sure how im enabling ..

but myself and ww father are gettig a pi to follow om to find other women etc... this man goes to his ist love 2 times a week ww at least 2-3 times a week we need to fill in the gaps . as far as we no he has no home of his own .. he even has a suitcase in his car permanently.

im realy not sure ww is going to get over what she sees as 3 years out of her life (shes only 30)with me not really understand the emotionall torment of my ex (i dont believe she actually did much)+the torment of living in what was me +ex maritall home .

she says some people can deal with it and are ok .and also she made the choice to live with me (theese are recent plusses)

i dont see any way to repair this problem

I'm a bit confused. Is WW living with you or OM right now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

ww lives in rented flat .sees om 2-3 times a week,om sees 1st wife 2times a week .we need to fill in gaps .he has no home of his own just lots of girls ...