KnitGirl, in order to keep up with specific threads try the following:

When reading a thread that you want to keep up with:

Scroll to the bottom of the thread page look to the bottom left.

There will be a heading that says "Extra Information".

Underneath that heading you will see something like this:
[color:"purple"] 4 registered and 30 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator: *Murphy*, MBMagnolia, Justuss

Favorite Topic! (toggle)
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Click on the word (toggle).

This will add that specific thread to a list that you will find on your "My Home" page. The "My Home" page link is found at the top of each page titled "My Home" "Main Index" "Search" and so forth.

When you click on the My Home page link, you will see several options and one of them on the right side will be titled "Favorite Topics". There you will see the title of the thread you have "toggled". Just click on the title and it will take you straight the the thread.

Let me know if you have any questions. HTH!

Graplin,

Thank you!! That really did help because I did not know that! I will start doing it immediately.

You're welcome!

yeppers

encourages weakness

Sometimes I wonder why I post. I watch a poster ask for help, sounds sincere so I step in and read a bit. Maybe even do some research, try to give the best answers I can and yea if I have time even temper it a bit. Then what? For the next few days or weeks, it was as if I never posted. Not that I need t/b recognized. NO!! That's not it. What is discouraging is NOT to see the one calling for help actually use the help provided.

[/quote]


((( Orchid )))

Not sure if this has exactly been said here, but --

Please try to think of the hundreds of wounded souls who are out there lurking and reading the posts here... for every one that posts, I am sure there are hundreds more reading this invaluable information here... Desperate spouses too scared to register.... reading and being helped in the shadows daily....

Hope this helps a little...

CJ,

Got that fryin pan right here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Don't think I have used it for a few weeks now, could be my swing is going. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Ya, know Orchid and others, the thing that I worry about is the thought that I may have turned someone off on this site when I was trying to offer help. I sure don't have the guts to ask how many people think my advice is poor. I fear the list would be long. On the other hand, the only thing any of us can do is what we feel is offer the best advice at the time.

Someone also mentioned the day to day variablility of our advice, and I KNOW that mine varies depending on what else is happening in my life. When my attention span is short or I am frustrated I try NOT to post at all and over the years I like you Pep and many others here have learned when it seems our advice is not really connecting to the person in question. Sometimes I am slow and it takes me a few posts, but eventually I get the idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I thought your thread was interesting and it is germaine to the entire concept of this site.

Must do a little more reading and then it is time to get to work, the sun is setting and the computers await me.

God Bless,

JL

I've been pondering this for most of the day. I agree with you that the vast majority of participants mean well most of the time. I also think we're all capable of letting our "meaning well" get occasionally overpowered by more self-oriented motives at times. That's just being human.

I have followed the Sis saga from its inception, although I've never posted on it. So, I've read through the latest occurrance.

My ponderings were about why well-meaning folks could have such very different opinions and have such different responses about the same event. I thought it might be differences incurred due to degrees of experience, degree of outspokenness, degree of maturity - that sort of thing. And it very well may be. But what I finally landed on in my ponderings was "gifts of the Spirit".

Some of those gifts are:
prophecy
teaching
exhorting
encouraging
giving
leading
showing mercy

The prophetic may predict where the path you have chosen is going to take you. The exhorter may tell you to get off your whiny butt and get it in gear. The mercy-giver may pat you on the shoulder and tell you it's okay that you messed up, try again. And so forth.

Mercy-giver may have a tendency to think exhorter is a whip-bearing, cast-iron hearted taskmaster. Exhorter may think mercy-giver is a droopy-diapered, namby-pamby wuss.

It's clear to me that the expression of these diverse gifts is probably going to result in some sparks.

And I doubt that it will ever be otherwise amongst earth-dwelling humans.

But it seems that they are all needed in order to provide a balance of perspective that the singular gift cannot.

Just my ponderings this day.

Graplin,

I think you are right.

JL

So is it ok to have a different POV? Can we learn how to extract the good and discard the bad? Should we? Do we?

These are questions we each need to ask. Why? Because HOW we react is within OUR control. What often happens is someone makes a statement, someone else reads it, digests it, gets indigestion and spits out a totally different POV. That POV is past on and the whole process spins again, eventually the original intent is gone.

Let's say the original poster comes back and finds what they original says has been so distorted, the reputation of the original poster is now topsy turvy. Has that happened? Yep. Many times.

Now the 2nd effect: The same original post is read by another MBer.... this one sees good info and other info not as beneficial. That MBer takes the part that will help her and ignores the other part. This MBer's primary goal is to find posts that help them. The ones that hurt or are not effective, that poster discards. No hurt feelings. Why? Because the goal of this MBer is to find good things apply as best as possible and move forward. Do they analyze every letter and sentence of each poster? Nope. Why? No time. This MBer is busy moving forward.

As for me, I like helping those who are willing to hear, see them take what is helpful for them, apply as best as they can, ask questions to get help and then see them move forward. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It is a pleasure to help that kind of poster.

If there were more of those kinds of posters you can bet there w/b less MB 2x4s. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JMHO,
L.

Orchid -

I have a logistical question and another question. Is it ok to ask another question in someone else's thread that correlates to your own situation. For instance, in Sad's you told her to drain her WH of money so he looked broke. Could I have asked a question to you in that thread about my situtation?

Here's the question - my WH is giving me almost all of his paycheck and lives off of about 500.00. So basically he is poor and living off of her, who is also living off of some guy that she takes care of. In fact, both WH and OW live in this guy's one bedroom apt. So what do you think?

SG

Orchid-

Mind if I poke my head in here?

Orchid, hi hon. I did email you back by the way.



I think different POVs are ok. I remember reading posts to me and ticking them off "Can't do that, can't do that...oh, maybe this".

I'm rather stubborn and wasn't very quick about moving out of my comfort zone, even though my comfort zone was gone!

My process was baby steps, learning, processing. Plan A here, anti-deps there, finding and discarding counselors until I found the right one....

Owl, u r welcome to post as needed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

For how long has he been living like this? The OW must be nutz. Even in the fog, it doesn't take long to realize $$ ain't there.

Document all his deposits. When the D comes down (if it does) he will need to continue paying and the OW must meet his needs.

IMHO, funneling the $$ away from the WS is a good way to kill the A. Reasons for funneling needs t/b legitimate.

L.

First off, I wanted to apologize for my part in getting your other thread locked. I thought that the topic was good, and I didn't feel that the discussions being held were off topic...I think they were relevant to what you'd asked...the 'value' of the 2x4.

I think that 2x4's actually have enormous value, in certain situations. There are times when a poster doesn't get it...but more importantly, doesn't get that he doesn't get it. And you've sometimes just got to say "HEY, WAKE UP!!!" I didn't post here during my own reconciliation, and was well under way into recovery when I came here, so I've not really received any 2x4's along those lines myself.

Your question about scaring posters off is a valid concern, however. I know that many people feel that if "the poster lets themselves get chased off the site because of a 2x4, they weren't really ready to work on their marriage anyway", but that's a mindset I don't agree with. If someone comes here, they're at least considering things. If we can get the poster to stay here long enough to REALLY open up and accept MB and step up to the plate to rebuild their marriage, that's a win.

But if a WS comes here, they're already on gaurd. The expect to be flamed, and they're ready to run at the first sign of it...hence why they ran to OP in the first place. If we flame them off the bat, they're going to run, and use that as their own self-justification..."heck, even those STRANGERS on MB are against me, why would my OWN BS think about reconciling with me?".

Waiting until they've been here long enough to see the value of what MB has to offer before we pull out the 2x4's would likely give the opportunity to help more marriages.

And if we equate the poster TO the horrible actions that they're doing, we're going to get an even stronger reaction. If we call a WS a ****** (regardless of how true we might think that is), of course the odds are huge that they're not going to stick around long enough to reap any benefit from the site. But if we can abhor the actions but not the poster...without making the poster feel attacked or assaulted, we stand a better chance of getting them to see the truth...that their actions ARE horrible.

I think that we ARE responsible (to a degree) for how others receive our words and actions. We have some control in how others are affected by what we say or do, in how we say or do it.

I can't live my life as though my actions, my words, don't have an impact on others. They do...every day. Here, or at work, or on the street, or wherever. So I choose my words, my actions...carefully, with an awareness that what I say will affect those around me. And I try to use those words and actions to the best possible affect for those same people.

I think that blunt speech is GREAT. I think that the 2x4's used here are often right on the money. I think that they're NEEDED, the huge, vast majority of the time. I think that we just need to ensure that the message we're getting across to the intended target is that we value THEM enough to want to help them. That we care enough that we're taking time to post to them. If they get both the 2x4 and that message of truly wanting to help...its going to be a HUGE help to them.

We've all heard the "attack the problem, not the person" thing before. If we can make it clear in our 2x4's that this is what we're doing, they'll 'get it' much sooner than they would otherwise.

I'm not looking for another debate. Just agreeing with the value of a WELL PLACED 2x4.

Orchid -

For how long has he been living like this? The OW must be nutz. Even in the fog, it doesn't take long to realize $$ ain't there. Answer - WH moved out 2 months ago tomorrow. The whole darn situation is nutz. From how they met, where they went, her life, her kids etc. Since she is on state disability she doesn't need much and she is living off of the old guy that she takes care of. That's the apartment they are staying in. They are sleeping on the couch in the middle of the living room. Do you think there is any hope?

Document all his deposits. When the D comes down (if it does) he will need to continue paying and the OW must meet his needs. Answer - I am handling all the bills and make copies each week. He has never been one to take care of the money. He says he will, but he avoids it like everything else.

I really think that he is trying to destroy himself. The craziest part of this is when I ask him how he is, he never seems really happy. He tells me things aren't perfect between them, but they are working on it. Is this normal when you are involved in an A.

SG

Sure, as long as everyone eventually ends up sharing *my* point of view! bwahaha <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



If we tiptoe very carefully, maybe we won't inadvertantly trigger the "style" war thingie.

I don't know that is necessarily the POV that ingenders the ruckus. I think sometimes it is the sense of adamancy and absoluteness with which it appears to be presented.

And I understand that there is the belief that the hearer should take the good, spit out the bad and not take it personal. But, I don't think that even the participants who promote that belief adhere to it consistantly.

For ex., sometimes when one of our more experienced posters delivers their message and it is met with a
not-so-great cascade of responses, there will almost inevitably be a new thread started specifically to encourage that experienced poster. Now why do we do that, unless we feel/think that they may have been hurt by the exchange? There is obviously a desire to comfort, to make sure they're okay. Does the "spit out the bad" not apply here? Are they not strong, or adult enough to "take it"?

So, how is it different when others express concern for the possible hurt of the less experienced poster when the responses are getting a little tough? And I can't help but consider that these are individuals going through one of the most devastating events that can occur in one's life while continuing to drag themselves out of the bed everyday and try to function. Are those who express concern providing comforting or coddling? Encouragement or enabling?

I can't quite pin down where the line is being drawn.

I do think we should express and encourage the newbies to stick with the plans. I think we should give them reasons and assurances. But I tend to hold some reserve when it becomes something similar to "if you don't do this plan exactly as it is spelled out your marriage is doomed and you're screwing up".

Dr. Harley wrote that Plan A should go a specific length of time for men and a different length of time for women. But, I have read posts where in direct consultation with the Harleys, the poster was encouraged to go much longer than the "official" designated time length.

It is written that Plan B involves no "live" interaction. But I have read at least one poster in direct consultation with the Harleys, who did an in-the-same-house Plan B. And I could have sworn that I remember a poster who was counselled to stick his/her head out on occasion in Plan B. But that may be a mis-memory on my part.

All out exposure is pushed hard on the forums, and I'm a big believer in it. But, I have read from posters who in direct consultation with the Harleys were told not to expose beyond the other betrayed spouse.



A lot of times, you plant the seeds and never get a chance to see the harvest. I think there are seeds aplenty planted here daily.

The time, energy, prayer and thought that is spent by board vets is such an incredible service. Many blessings upon their generous hearts.

Just my ponderings.

Orchid: Report her to the state disability and housing authority (if she is being subsidized), let them know she is putting letting other men live at her home in addition to the one's authorized to live there.

Her living conditions should not be acceptable. The state and housing authority needs to know this.

If and when they investigate, they will kick him out. That w/b a good thing. If he wants to live on the street, r u strong enough to let him?


Orchid: As bad as that is, it is a really a lemon to lemonade thing. Mine is the same way and I used that leverage to let him run broke. I gave him his bills, separated the auto insurance and told him he needs to pay for his stuff. What are the separation rules in your state?


Orchid: Demand he be happy. I did. I told my then WS that with all this misery, SOMEONE in our family had BETTER be happy. Since my son and I were suffering as a RESULT of the A, then it only left the WS t/b happy. I told him I didn't care about the OW being happy because she was NOT part of MY family. Since he was, then HE had better be happy each time we had to interact. I demanded he do so immediately and remain in that state of mind even with the OW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

You should have seen his face distort as he tried to smile. Ha! The WS attitude was having a hard time because according to the WS creed, the WS MUST aggravate the BS at all costs. The WS must do the opposite of ANYTHING the BS tells him/her to do. LOL!!!

His face physically distorted. It was weird to watch. Of course he couldn't smile. I not demanded an explanation as to why he couldn't show his happiness, after all wasn't all of this his choice? He had to agree then had to leave since he couldn't show his 'happiness'. YIKES!!!?!?!?

This incident and a few others really hurt their A. Yea....imagine him later meeting up with the OW and finding out every time he tries t/b happy around her, he is actually doing what I told him t/d? !??!?!? That sent him for a loop and cause an LB from afar big time. LOL!!! I loved it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.