My husband is involved in a long-term emotional affair with a co-worker. I've talked about it here before. It's too painful to rehash, in light of everything else I need to talk about right now. Because this week I think I discovered, first hand, it is most likely physical. And, I found the most dehumanizing email exchange just yesterday. I had heart palpitations right afterwards, and I've been on the verge of an anxiety attack a few times today. I'm sure I'm going to be losing some hair soon.

Several weeks ago, I finally got my husband into counseling after years of trying. It's been awful. His agenda is clearly to convince me and the counselor that I am crazy, and he is being falsely accused. One week, instead of disputing him, I got tired of it all and took responsibility for my share of our marital problems. This seemed to have some resonance with him; he cried. And, I realized, everything really isn't all his fault. I contribute to our issues by haranguing him about this woman constantly, and I've pushed him into a secretive corner with her. If he even brings up her name, I get upset. She's a victim in his eyes, even though at work events, I am steadfastly polite towards her, despite the fact that she knows their "friendship" bothers me, and she pushes it anyways.

At any rate, last Saturday I did an idiot thing.

Our counselor told both of us to choose a confidante. My husband chose a good friend, who also just happens to be the minister who married us. I was disturbed about some inexplicable financial transactions, and it bothered me to think that I may be working every day to help finance whatever he was doing with this "girlfriend" of his. So, I got on the phone and I called his confidante, making it clear that I didn't want to know what they discussed, but that I wanted to make sure he knew that my husband is indeed embroiled in a relationship that is endangering our marriage. The confidante told me to call my husband first and ask him if it was OK if I called him. So, I did, and in the midst of our call, the confidante called him on the other line to report on me. My husband went ballistic. He said I had betrayed him, that I was a deceptive person, unsafe, and he didn't know whether he could ever trust me again. He didn't talk to me for two days--highly unusual--and in counseling, he said all manner of horrific things about me, as though I was a disturbed stranger, rather than his wife of 15 years.

That was last Monday, and over the course of the week, he's realized the impact of his words on me and relented, says he's sorry for what he said. On Wednesday, I dropped by his office, because I was in the area. One of his co-workers said she'd just finished having lunch with him and the OW in her office and that he was around somewhere. She said she'd gone to buy water, and when she came back, they were gone. I started to walk around, and then she was very interested in keeping me in her office--she shares it with the OW--and kept me engaged in conversation. I was there about 20 minutes. Then the OW shows up, her hair a little disheveled, clutching her sweater closed. Upon seeing me, we exchange pleasantries, and she says she has to go to the bathroom. When she returns, she tells me that my husband is in a downstairs office. I meet up with him, and his dress shirt is out of his pants--that's unusual--and I note a ashy dirt imprint on the back of his pant leg. I ask where he was, and he says he was eating lunch in the building.

This was a lie. I had been sitting in the office where he had already finished lunch.

I let the lie go, don't mention where I'd been sitting, and tell him that I have to leave. He was just going to lie some more, rail on me for being a false accuser and after witnessing what I just did, I didn't have the stamina.

I cried for two nights after that, and I told him it was because I was still recovering from the nasty things he'd said to me during our counseling session. So ironic that he called me everything I feel about him right now: unsafe, deceptive, etc. It was as though he was projecting feelings he cannot accept about himself. I know this is typical, but it still hurt.

Anyways, on Saturday I decided to look in his email box. There, I find an exchange with the OW where she's complaining hard about her husband. They lost a child four years ago yesterday (Sunday) and they had some conflict about setting up a counseling appointment. They disagreed about the time, and it was heightened to the nth degree due to their pain. She was talking about him without using his name, and expressing how she appreciates that he cares, but the way he cares hurts her. It was as though he didn't lose a child as well--it was all about her. And at the end she punctuated it with some poetic statement regarding flowers.

It was a masterpiece, designed to ensure that this weekend, my husband was thinking about her. She's used her child's death before to make my husband feel guilty for not being there enough for her. I am not a cruel person--I'm sorry this happened to her, but she uses this, just as when she pretended to be dying of cancer.

My husband's response cut me badly. That morning, he'd encouraged me to go upstairs and get our daughter ready. In his email response to her, he told her how he had a few minutes because our daughter was "getting bathed." No mention of by who, as though I don't exist. He implied that her husband is a liar, never tried to set up a conflicting appointment, and told her to go to the appointment she set without him--and to tell him that he could come if he wanted.

What kind of [email]b@stard[/email] did I marry that he could interfere with some other man's marriage that way?

At the end, he told her that his S.O. was going out with girlfriends, and he'd call her. Told her that he cared.

First of all, what does he mean, calling me a S.O.? It is bad enough that he was going out of his way to let her know that he was sneaking around behind my back to benefit her. What happened to my name?

Much later, she responded about what a good day she had, and thanked him for responding to her, "especially because it broke one of the rules." I am sure that this rule is, no weekend contact. The other rule is, no mentioning of their spouses' names. We are dehumanized.

Our counseling appointment is Monday. My individual counselor told me that when I have evidence, like an email, I should bring it into the session, and talk about it in that "safe" environment. My guess, however, is that my husband will try to throw in my face that I am in his email box in the first place, and talk about how evil I am to disparage this woman for reaching out on the anniversary of her child's death.

I'm not entirely positive that they didn't set this up. Several weeks ago, I told the counselor that he'd written an upsetting email to her a few years ago where he told her that no one understood her like him. He tried to say the thesis of it was her child's death, when it wasn't true. How perfect would it be for them if I brought this email up, and to give him more ammo against me?

On the other hand, it verifies so much of what I've said in counseling regarding the inappropriateness of his interactions with this woman. So, what would you do? I don't know if the counselor would say anything anyways. All he does is have us reflect back what the other person says, and only interjects to make sure we've heard each other. It drives me nuts that no one is saying to this man, "YOU ARE WRONG. STOP KILLING YOUR WIFE FROM THE INSIDE OUT."

Is it just time for Plan B? I have been avoiding sex with him, ever since I went to his office and saw what I did. At the same time, I know that's a LB, and may lead him to depend even more on the OW for his sexual needs--or to start having full-on intercourse, if he hasn't already. I am just afraid for my health.

Especially because he said today, when we got on the topic of Freddie Mercury's death: "Too bad he got HIV in the '80s. They can treat it with drugs now. It's really not that big a deal anymore."

I only wish I was making that up.

Did u already expose to OW's H?

L.

No, I haven't exposed to the OWH. I have been afraid of what he might do to my husband, as he is a police officer, legally carries a gun, etc. I have seriously considered it many, many times. This is the first time where I have had an email where they've, basically, teamed up hard against him. There was one other when he was a passing reference, lightly disdained, and then accepted for his foibles.

By the way, I've never seen my husband write something that is remotely negative about me--which is why I am shocked that it's deteriorated to the point where I don't have a name anymore.

Anyways, I will seriously consider exposing. My concern is that it will result in physical harm to my husband, and I will never be able to forgive myself.

Meanwhile, since the counseling appointment is tonight, I was wondering what people thought of me sharing the email, or should I just keep it to myself? Should I bother sharing my "false accusation" about him disappearing somewhere in the building with this woman, and showing back up disheveled?

Or, just hand him his Plan B letter and a packed suitcase?

Imag:

Have a conversation with OWH. He needs to know how deep his W is in this.

And it will start working in your favor.

What have you done about exposure to your H's employer?

Does this Woman work for him or vice versa?

LG

Imagination, I am sorry you are here. I strongly suggest that you do contact the OWH and tell him about the affair. Secondly, you would want to expose them at the workplace, since this leaves them open to serious legal ramifications. Exposure will likely inflict a huge blow on the affair.

And I am not sure why you are worried about telling the
OWH, because guns do not cause violence. Apparently, it does not bother the OW or your H who are closer to the situation.

I know you are right about exposing to the husband. I feel so bad for him. I am just conflicted because I'm afraid he'll shoot my husband. Or her. Or both.

I'm not sure what to think about my H's boss. He is married, and several years ago he had an extremely close relationship with a female co-worker. My H was suspicious of it--this was before he got involved in his own entanglement. She quit eventually, and we never heard much about her anymore.

A few years ago, his boss sent me an email asking whether I wanted to go to a conference with my husband--said the company had paid for a room and my H and I could have it if we wanted. He informed me that the OW was going to this conference that my H was planning to attend.

I found this very odd. Why didn't he tell my husband and expect him to inform me? When I told my husband I was interested in going, he was apathetic. He informed me that the OW wanted to ride with him to the conference, but wasn't sure whether she was going. Finally, it turned out I couldn't go. He left very early in the morning, and later told me he'd wanted to stop for breakfast and take his time getting there. Even after the conference, he never informed me that she had ended up riding with him. I found their nametags in my backseat, and a to-do list on the top of our bathroom trash where one of the items was to pick her up. When I told him what I knew, he said he hadn't wanted to upset me, because he knew I wasn't happy about her going. I accepted this, though it upset me worse. And, obviously, I never forgot.

Over the years, their "friendship" ebbed and flowed through various life experiences. It intensified, about a year ago now, when they began working as co-department heads. My husband did not tell me about this change. I figured it out through deductions, and then asked him. He said he wasn't happy to be co-leading with her that it was his boss' idea. Apparently, she was set to leave the organization when the boss came up with this idea, which resulted in her having more responsibilities and more money.

I just don't think it was all the boss' idea. I wonder if it was his at all.

My husband certainly seemed fine with it as they planned various activities together over email, planning meeting after meeting. What bothered me was how he was always saying, "Let's talk," to her when he is so closed off and dismissive to me.

Once, recently, he brought her to our house for a work meeting with a group of other people, without warning me first--knowing this would be unnerving for me. He had all manner of reasons when I asked him why, and blew me off as though it was no big deal. His boss, however, saw my face and said, "You didn't know we were coming, did you?" I don't know what he knows, so I don't know how to interpret that.

Last month, I was at an annual work event of my husband's. He took a few moments to make a big public show of his love for me, even giving me flowers. He does this every year, at the same event. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the same effect on me anymore. It seems like a show for his co-workers, so they won't suspect whatever he is doing with this woman. Afterwards, he always gets a lot of strokes from everyone for being a romantic husband. Little do they know, this and Valentine's Day are the only days out of the year when I get flowers.

Anyways, his boss made a point of coming up and talking to me during the event, and after we spoke for a while he said, "So, how are things going with you two?" I just looked at him with a sad expression, hoping my eyes would say it all. Then he asked about something else inocuous and I told him how much my husband enjoyed working there, that it was his personal mission. My husband showed up moments later, with the OW--after having disappeared for 10 minutes. I noticed tears in his boss' eyes when he told my husband how much he appreciates his work.

My husband is very good at what he does, and is a highly valued employee. The head of the organization once said that he is the "soul" of their organization. This woman also has a very good reputation, on my husband's back. She used to be terrible, and he's helped her improve her skills and get various promotions. They are a formidable force that helps keep things together at their organization. The employees they manage are like their children. They are work spouses.

People seem to really like me, and when I bring our daughter in the office, they adore her, and my husband gets all kinds of strokes for his parenting. There are people there who I've gotten to know pretty well, and with whom I have good relationships. Sometimes I get it in my head that one of his employees or colleagues will break down and tell me what they know. But then again, why risk losing their jobs, or their friendship with him?

I guess at this point, I don't know what to do.

Why would you have this fear?

No wonder they are in an affair, they do not have proper professional boundaries. This is a situation that is just asking for it.

Imagination, exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer in affairs. While there are no guarantees, we have had affairs end the day they were exposed. Unfortunately for you, the affair will not end all contact ends, which means one of them will have to leave the company. Exposure to Human Resources will likely motivate such a change.

Yes, expose. Your husband sounds like mine - he will continue insisting that there is no affair - to your friends, your family, your counselor, your mininster, your attorney, whoever. I caught OW and him in bed together and that was the only way he admitted it. Everyone thought I was the crazy one.

This will go on and on forever unless you expose the truth. Like Melody says, apparently THEY aren't worried that her husband carries a gun. Don't enable the affair by trying to protect them.

your husband is gaslighting you in to believing that the affair is a figment of your imagination....

you need to state the fact
and your boundaries long hard and clear from here on out...

if he denies the affair tell him to put his money where his mouth is and submit to a lie detector test...if he passes you will drop this whole thing..

his refusal will be equal to confession of guilt...

tell him that you have NO intention in living in a threesome of a marriage...and while he may choose to do...
you will not be participating in such a marriage..

that you love and value both him and you enough that there should be no room for third parties and that you are willing to step up to the plate for that to happen...
BUT
she must be OUT of his life
completely!

no matter what that entails exactly....

you need to write your plan B letter and get ready to hand it to him..
you are in a great position that she is still married..
does she have children...

so it's not like he can and run to her...

enough is enough is enough

I don't give a rats behind about his gaslighting accusations that you breached his trust...
the trust exists when both parties have nothing to hide..
not secret emails...

time to clear your brain for you have living with the abnormal a long time...with him trying to convince you it is the normal...

time for a little launching of some missles..

ARK

Imagination,

Listen to Mel. She is so right on you can't believe it. YOU have to expose the affair to the OW's H ASAP if not sooner and write a letter to the HR department where they work exposing the affair and your desire to save your marriage and ask for their help.

Do this today if you want to a have the best chance of ending the affair. "A marriage can survive anger but it cannot survive three people in it" (Steve Harley to me and others).

Everyone is right. I need prayer, if you pray. I don't know if I have the courage. I am so scared, and I want to throw up.

It seems easier to me to write a letter, pack his bags, and then present them both to him in front of the counselor tonight. I would rather just kick him out, not have to look at him, get my strength together.

I know he would run straight to his parents' house, as his brother did when his wife caught him in an emotional affair and kicked him out. They somehow worked it out, and seem very happy now.

He has told me when I have told him to "just go!" before that he has "nowhere to go" that this woman wants to be with her husband. I believe that part, because it's during a moment of raw honesty. I don't believe, however, that he hasn't been intimate with her. The tone when he says that is completely different.

I'm afraid that if I expose to her husband, he'll kick her out, and they'll end up together.

I know, I know. I can't control that.

All of this is babbling. I'm really conflicted and hurting. It's almost too much to bear. I've lost weight, and everyone who knows me has commented on how "different" I look this week, and not in a good way. I don't know if I'm up for some big battle.

Please pray for me to have strength. I know if I'm not strong, all is lost.

It would appear that the boss knows and so do various of their employees. You would simply be exposing what is known to the light of day.

From what you say, it is an EA/PA. And you know it.

Courage. Do the right thing. And stay the course.

Larry

Imagination, you've seen that your SIL kicked out H's brother and they reconciled, so you know that recovery is possible after separation.

I think you also need to expose to your H's parents. They may still take him in, but at least they would know of his behavior with this woman.

Your plan to give him his Plan B letter in front of the counselor is fine as he can mediate if your H becomes angry

Expose to all you have a stake in any R with either the WS or OW.

This includes OW's H. If you fear retaliation, you can include this fear in your letter something like:

Ow's H, I realize the information I shared can have a hard impact on you. I am sorry for having to bring you such bad news.

I knew you had the right to know and mow I ask that you treat this information and any related actions with care. Do NOT put yourself in any type of legal jeopardy. There are ways of dealing with those who have become a WS or OW Use the terms NOT the acronyms). If you would like help or support on how to cope with is for the benefit of yourself and your family, please let me know. I am part of a great support group that has resources of support around the world.

Just let me share a few pointers to start. You need to have a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. You want to be able to take legal actions and not emotionally charged ones. Find a good MC and IC for your children as needed. Secure your finances. There is also several good books to read to help you form a solid plan for your survival.

My heart goes out to you and your family. Mine is suffering and we hare working hard on this side to end the A.

All the best,
BS and family.

Something like that. You can make it shorter but encourage him NOT to take violent actions in his hands. There are better ways of handling this type of issue.

take care,
L.

Thanks everyone, and to Orchid for giving me a framework for a letter to the OWH. What do you guys think of this one?:

Dear OWH:
I'm sorry to tell you this, but my H and OW are involved in an inappropriate relationship. I have pasted an email at the bottom of this correspondence that verifies the dysfunctional nature of it.

Their relationship has bothered me for almost 10 years, off and on, with the last five being the most difficult. My H has always assured me that they are just friends, and that OW says you are fine with their friendship. I have tried very hard to trust him, but when questionable situations come up and I seek answers, he tells me I am crazy, jealous and insecure.

Three years ago, I found a long email where he was telling OW that she understands him like no one else does. He had inserted a review of "Lost in Translation" which, if you haven't seen it, is a movie about two married people having an emotional affair. He compared this movie to their relationship, but said it's not exactly the same. I don't know what he meant by that. When I confronted him about this, he refused to end their friendship. He assured me that in person, he told that both God and I understand him better, but it was just an emotional moment, as she had just decided to forgive him for not being there after she lost her child.

I haven't brought any of this to your attention because I don't know you very well. I've feared that you would bring harm to the father of my child, and she adores him. And, just as my H keeps calling me crazy, I've imagined that OW is saying the same thing about me to you. So, I held off. But after reading this email, I realize that you just have a right to know, and that’s it.
It appears to me that they are very comfortable with having a family, plus their relationship--in other words, having their cake and eating it, too. But as their relationship has progressed, as you will see in the following email, we have become nameless villains who are getting in their way. What’s next?
My H has been able to convince himself that I intentionally kept us from having biological children. I have a blog where I can show him exactly what I was thinking during that time, and the actions that I took to investigate our infertility, but he refuses to read it. He causes himself a great deal of pain and resentment in generating this fantasy. As he has told me in a moment of raw honesty, my "deception" is the reason he has maintained his friendship with OW. It doesn't make any sense, but it works for him.

For her part, it seems from this email that OW says you don't know how to care for her in a way that works for her, as she grieves her deep loss. Of course not--she is leaning on my H, inappropriately, and not giving you a chance. Lately, when my H tries to start on me about my failings, in a way that feels as though it is a direct reference to something OW does better, I just get up and leave. I don't want to be used anymore to support their relationship.

I love my H deeply, and despite the deep pain he has caused me, I don't want to give up on our marriage or our family. I imagine you feel the same about OW and I hope that no harm results to it based on this letter I am sending to you. You have a beautiful family. It seems that both of our families have had a lot of pain, and we're all dealing with it in dysfunctional ways.

I hope that this letter is the beginning of the end of that. There are all kinds of resources I would be happy to share with you, if you'd like to get your family back. Since you work in jail, I hope that you will not put yourself or your children's future in jeopardy by making any rash decisions. Tempting though it may be, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't. No one will gain anything from that. I hope I haven't offended you by saying that, but again, I don't know you and there's plenty to be angry about here.

My H has told me, even recently, that OW is dedicated to you. I believe that any actions they have taken are not out of love, but out of pain that has created a dysfunctional attachment. I fully believe there is hope for resolution and healing, and that you are meant to be with OW, just as much as I am meant to be with my H. Right now, My H and I are in counseling, and I suggest that you use this email she wrote to insist that you both get into it right away, and not wait. I am also in individual counseling, and if you can, I hope you'll get some for yourself as well.

And on that topic, my therapist assures me that I'm not crazy. Neither are you, if you've been told that lie. I’ll be praying for your family, and I hope you’ll do the same for mine. OW and my H are good people, caught up in something very wrong—and I think we can help them out of it if we keep our cool. If you want, I can tell you about a place where you can get good support.

Again, I am really sorry to have to share these things with you. I believe that while it will be rough for a while, it doesn't have to end badly.

I believe Larry is exactly right when he says this. Unfortunately, it has been swept under the rug rather than brought to the light of day and addressed openly. This is fairly common when only the BOSS and a few peers know. This is why it is important to notify the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and their bosses. As long as they are ALL notified, none can give into the temptation to sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away. They are FORCED to take whatever action company policy requires. And no longer can they PRETEND like it is not going on when you bring it out into the open. At the very least, they will be notified of your exposure and will be made AWARE that evryone else knows, which will create great discomfort.

So, I would suggest also writing a letter to the company executives I noted above. Give them the FACTS, tell them that this workplace adultery threatens two marriages and leaves them vulnerable to sexual harassment actions. Ask them this--------> what do you intend on doing about it.

State an EXPECTATION that something will done about it and ask them to follow up with you.

Another key thing to keep in mind is that your marriage will never recover as long as they continue to work together. The solution is complete no contact FOR LIFE. This must be your GOAL, Imagination, or you will be facing YEARS MORE of dealing with his affair. We have 4,5,10 yr affairs on this forum as a result of trying to cut this corner.

And also, please don't worry about the OWH being "violent" simply because he owns a gun. A gun doesn't make one a killer anymore than having a vagina makes one a prostitute. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Hi there, Imagination

I'm so sorry to see you here. You truly ARE having a bad week, because now you are confronted with something you really knew about for a decade, but have really avoided dealing with.

The good news is, that when you are ready, you will deal with it and feel MUCH better!

You are RIGHT ON to contact the OWs husband, but the letter really needs to be MUCH SHORTER, MUCH BLUNTER and MUCH MORE TO THE POINT.

For example, refer to an AFFAIR and not an "inappropriate relationship"

Don't talk about your FEELINGS about it -- give a few horrible concrete and recent EXAMPLES ...

And make it about a TENTH as long.

It needs to be brief and to the point, and not about YOU (though right now, understandably, you are feeling emotionally exhausted and your pain feels about you and your worries are about you and your children and your marriage).

For THIS MAN ... this is going to be about HIM and HIS marriage and HIS family. So that is what this letter has to be about.

and send it through a courier or certified mail, or in some other method that produces a receipt (so he knows it's important and requires immediate attention -- ideally at his place of work, so his wife can't circumvent it).

YOU do not physically deliver it!

There are probably some other really expert letter writers out there who can help you more.

Clearly, exposing the couple in the workplace is pointless since affairs are part of the workplace culture (though they are certainly exposing themselves to lawsuits galore); but what does Dr. Harley say about exposing affairs to ministers? Does this woman's family belong to a church that you know of? Or have family nearby? (Or did I miss that in a post?)