I would like some opinions as to whether I am making too much of this or not...<P>History:<BR>-On next to last day of my business trip, W has sex with OM(long-term emotional affair)<BR>-I came home on Friday night, W was asleep. On Saturday morning after about 30-45 minutes of conversation, W tells me about OM.<BR>-During next three weeks we talk about things..<BR>1) She will never give up "friendship"<BR>2) He is a "soulmate".<BR>3) She will want to do things with him, including an overnight hiking/camping trip with several other people. When I asked if the relationship would remain platonic during the trip, she said she "couldn't guarantee it".<BR>4) When discussing informal separation, I insisted that it wasn't fair to reduce or eliminate contact with me unless she did the same with OM(she works with him). She responded that she would ask him to back off and since he was such a true friend, he would do that.<BR>5) A week or so after 4), W told me that OM discussed his feelings for her and wept profusely.<BR>6) A couple of weeks after that, I surreptitiously discovered that OM told her that he considered eliminating all contact with her so she could evaluate her marriage, but the thought of it, "tore his heart out".<BR>7) After I moved out, W started calling OM 2-3 times a week from home with the calls lasting 2-3 hours.<BR>8) I discovered this and confronted W who denied it vehemently for 3 months and finally admitted it last week.<P>Items 1-6 happened in April of this year. Item 7 started in June and continued until I moved back in September(one call to him since...she doesn't know I know).<P>I told my boss the generalities of my situation a few months ago and he agreed to limit my travel(at my request). I didn't want to be going out of town until some of this was settled one way or the other. However, I had to make an out-of-state trip for 3 days and 2 nights last week.<P>I was a nervous wreck as W has never re-addressed items 1-6 as not being still valid. She has refused to talk to me about them. On the morning I left, W asked for a copy of my itinerary. I asked why she wanted it and she wouldn't answer, so I said no. Then I definitely LB'ed, I asked if she wanted it to be quite aware of my return time. She got pissed, said she didn't want it. I realized what I had said, and apologized profusely, giving her a copy.<P>I was beside myself during the whole trip. We talked each night and on the last night she asked how I was. I told her the truth and she got very upset.<P>When we went to couples counseling on Friday night, the trip and how I felt was brought up by W. Therapist asked me if I would ever be able to forgive the adultery. She said I would never forget, but could I forgive. I told her I could if W would start talking about her feelings toward OM or provide some other reassurance. Therapist then asked if I could still forgive if those reassurances never came. I said I wasn't sure.<P>Now after this long-winded dissertation, my questions are these:<BR>1) Was I out of line to feel the way I did during the trip?<BR>2) Am I wrong in assuming that the therapist was in some way belittling my reactions to the adultery?<P>W doesn't seem to have any understanding of what those open questions and comments(1-6) have done to me and why I can't be comfortable in trusting her. In all truth, I believe as much as is humanly possible(in these circumstances) that NOTHING has happened between them, physically, since April. She has said this and I do believe her, but there is a part of me that does not believe or trust her.<P>How can I overcome this insecurity if she is telling me the truth as I believe???

I want to go here, but will have to think on it!<P>It has been seven months into recovery for us at this time and some of these same issues still remain for us too. Will try to get back to you later on this. If I don't I am sure one of my (our) collective conscious buddies who frequents this site will!!!<P>Beth

PW(Beth) - We are indeed into counseling, but we are also in the middle of a divorce initiated by me as she spent 5 months and couldn't decide what to do...So I can't really say we are in "recovery". The therapy is for W to decide whether she wants to fix the marriage. I believe she wants to, but isn't convinced it is salvageable for her. She knows I feel it is....

Hi Heartpain -<P>To overcome your insecurities is going to take time and forward movement in the relationship with your wife....<P>In order to be able to achieve forward movement in the relationship you have to decide if you believe that is possible and wife wants it also.<P>Seeing that you are home and you say you believe your wife has not been physical with OM....than those are signs that you both want to move forward. Right?<P>So, now you both must let your words and actions rebuild the trust that is lost. That will take time and consistancy.<P>Your insecurities are based on the events of the recent past....try to take your focus off the past and turn it to what You can be doing in the present to rebuild your marriage....I don't see where OM would fit in your marriage - so there is no place for him in your thoughts!!!<P>It's very hard to do, but it will get easier and less painful as time and love deposits (on both sides) start to take hold.<P>The counselor' question - I thought was odd at first....I mean, how can you forgive if your wife, by giving you no reassurances, seems to not care about you.<P>But then I realized that forgiveness comes from your heart and by your coming home and wanting to try...doesn't that show forgiveness?<P>Aren't reassurances more a part of the forward movement of the relationship? It would make sense that you will have insecurities and by her reassuring you at times helps you get through those insecurities. That shows that the man and wife are getting back to a partner status by helping each other.<P>I'm not saying that this is something you should drag out and use against her and constantly need them...I don't think you would be that way. There are some people who are, I guess and maybe that is what the counselor was trying to detect.....who knows!! <P>If that bothers you I would ask about it and clarify it at the next session.<P>Good luck to you and your Wife.<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Heartpain, I really feel for you. I'm in the same boat, except that my trip is next week and I'm going nuts. I've thought about hiring a p.i. to watch her while I'm gone. I can't get the thought of them out of my mind.

Sheba - Very wise words indeed...I must commit them to my mind...BTW, the only reason I am home is I got sick of the apartment and told W I was moving back regardless of what she wanted. She said at the time that the only reason she stayed was she was afraid that if I filed for divorce and she was out of the house, a temporary restraining order might have kept her from access to anything she left in the house....<P>I guess my insecurities lie in the fact that W will not confront this issue with me. Why can't she just say that some of those things said in April are not true anymore?<P>Robilar - I came very, very close to hiring a PI while I was gone...I finally decided that if they were going to do something, I couldn't do anything about it. So why go to the expense?? BTW, I have another trip starting next Saturday, so I guess I will have to deal with this all over again unless I can take Sheba's advice solidly to heart by then...

HeartPain-<P>Based on what I read from your post I think you are totally entitled to your feelings. Number one: It sounds as though she isn't into working on your marriage and forgetting the OM. Number Two: If she can't come clean and make you feel secure of course you won't be able to forgive. You will be waiting for it to happen again-just as I would!<P>I am lucky I guess. My H begs me to let him make it up to me. He begs me to stay with him and trust him again. He begs me to forget all. My porblem is this-I can;t figure out why after a two year affair he suddenly hates the OW, he wants me and me only.........and so on and so forth. I made up my mind to just plug away, one day at a time, and see what feelings I have down the road. No matter what I choose to do I will end up hurt so I don't really give a rip about taking my time. I haven't ever stopped loving my H - I jsut have a hard time thinking about him and my supposed freind lieing to me and doing all the [censored] they did for two years while I stupidly thought my life was a bowl of cherries.<P>I know that if there was a way I could afford it and if I were in your shoes I would hire a PI-that way you know if she is lieing and that ought to make your future a little more clear a whole lot quicker. <P>I pray and hope she is doing nothing wrong. Good luck!!!! And have a safe trip!!<P> <P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Hi Again!!<P>I'm sorry Heartpain - I did not realize the returning home scenario.<P>Even so, it still says to me that you and your Wife are in a position to rebuild....<P>Why won't she admit things....Hmmm?<P>Perhaps it's part of the guilt factor..<BR>Or maybe, like you, she has her own mistrusts and insecurities.<P>I have no ideas why or what they might be, but I'm sure that they are present in some form.<P>She will only open up after the love deposits are made.....just like that is when you will lose some of your insecurities.<P>I wouldn't stay caught up on that!!! Concentrate on the day to day "little things" that might take you both a step or two closer to being friends again.<P>Counseling should help with making sure that the serious issues are not ignored so you know that it won't just fall by the wayside...<P>In between sessions, however, I think the stress and seriousness that you both have experienced needs to be eased and you both need some "fun" time...whether it's recreational activities, or just being in a good, perhaps even silly, mood sometimes......<P>Laughter is always good for what ails ya!!! Time will help the healing also.<P>There's no advantage to pushing for answers (or for anything!!).....<P>All that does is put more pressure on.<P>Hope this helps some..<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<BR>

Heartpain <P>I think your worries are normal. Similarly I think your wife's reactions are normal.<P>I think Sheba has given some good advice. I would only add a suggestion that you read "After the Affair" By Janis Abrahm Springs. This book deals with the kind of problems you each have and helps couples move through theses problems.

Heartache - You know, I agree about the PI, but I want to be able to trust again and if I keep up with the checking up, it will make it harder. I'm just going to suck it up and go on...<P>Sheba - You just keep on with the good advice. Now I have to be wise enough to use it. I have been pushing because otherwise I get zero. I will endeavor to stop it.<P>Awoken - It's good to hear that we are both normal. Thanks for the book referral... I have read it and it's good.<P>***<BR>We had a serious discussion this morning about several topics. When we talked about the therapist insisting I had forgive, I told W that as far as I knew, the only thing she had expressed remorse for that I could forgive was how the affair had hurt me. I said that she made me feel that she didn't regret having the affair or that she did the wrong thing to get my attention to our problems. She replied that I was not aware of the whole picture, so I hope that means that there is more remorse to come...I would love to be able to forgive it.<P>I just find it difficult to express forgiveness when remorse or regret is absent. This is wrong, I know, it's just the way I am....<P>