Hi All,

Haven't been here awhile, been involved in a 3 month old relationship that I believed had potential...but starting to see yellow flags turn into red flags.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Need some input from the group.

She has 2 sons, 1 16, other 21. I'm seeing things like she totally focuses on them - literally will drop anything & everthing and RUN to take their phone calls, interrupt any & all conversations to answer them, etc.

A few days ago, we went out to walk the dog (she & I). Gone maybe 10 minutes...when we walked back in, she immediately walked up to her youngest and hugged & kissed him very affectionately...like on the lips!!

I'm not passing judgment on the kissing on the lips as all families are a bit different, but it seems a bit much to me cause that's what she does to the boys alot.

Also, she's quite willing to allow them to sleep in her bed with her when the house is full. Now she could get them air mattresses & other arrangements on the floor, etc that would be just fine, but no she prefers them being in her bed with her!!!

I find that there are other boundaries of good sense being violated too. Like $500 cell phone bills the boys rack up. Like they tell her what they are doing & when. Like no budgets for their voracious spending appetites for clothes, etc.

She's told me very emphatically she loves me. She wants this to work out. And until recently I felt the same more than any other relationship I've had since divorce. But now I'm about to hit the "pause" button I feel.

Here's a bit more: she doesn't want to show affection or say loving things to each other in front of her boys!

Her one son told her he didn't want to see "PDA" between us. Now I'm not one to hang on a woman publically, but I'm warm & very much a hand-holder, arm around the shoulders with class in church, etc. I open doors instinctively. I help a woman by taking her arm, etc. Not kissing & necking, but gentlemanly affection & attention. A light touch at the right moment says alot is my style.

Her divorce - 2003. Mine - 2004. She's had several causual relationships. I'm the first she's "loved". I find she's not completely over her ex even after 4 yrs. She's working with a counselor & says she feels about "there".

His ghosts linger. Like pictures of him & her & boys in the living room. (she has me & her up too). Like his name arises alot. She refers to "us & we" stories meaning him & her a good deal. She hasn't taken care of paperwork stuff yet after divorce - like wills, records, etc.

She was devastated after his 4 affairs...he married the last one. 25 yrs of marriage for them. College sweethearts.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. She's got incredible good qualities & I do have love for her in my heart, but I'm trying to think this through carefully....

I hope for a future with her, but only if.....

Best Regards,
High Flight

Tread very carefully, my friend.

Assume that the relationship between her and her sons is completely healthy. In that case, you are attempting (after 3 months) to interfere with the only stable relationships she has.

Assume that it isn't. "Major can of worms" does not even begin to express what a mess this could be.

Based on two things -

and
After three months?

It may be the case that she is clinging to her sons after her husband abandoned her. Even if that is all there is to it, you do not want to be perceived as trying to get between her and her children.

Putting this on hold strikes me as a good idea. Be ready to be very, very cautious in your explanations if she asks you why.

Regards,
rs0522

Slow down. Three months is nothing in any relationship. Slow down and enjoy the here and now. Don't put any false hopes or expectations on the future. If you cannot do this, ask yourself why.

The kissing on the lips and allowing 16 and 21 year-old boys to sleep in her bed is weird. She is doing them no good by coddling them in this way. But, they are her sons and she has the right to mess them up in any way that she chooses. Expressing this dysfunction will only cause conflict between the two of you. Besides, at only three months, you don't have the right to speak out about this. Your relationship with this woman is in its infancy. Let things unfold naturally and the answers you seek will become clear as time goes on. Don't try to rush those answers.

HF, I think your instincts are right on.
I started to list the flags, but there are too many.

Do you have children? When mine call, not only do I run, but my stomach is in a knot until I find out why they are calling. Are they in trouble? Stuck somewhere? Broken down on the side of the road? Lost?

My husband is the same way as me. I cannot imagine him ignoring their calls for ANY REASON!

I agree with GG!

Burning red flags all over the place!

i'm supposed to be taking a break from the boards but you have been so kind to me that i had to respond. i know i am far from perfect on giving relationship advice, but i feel really strange about the kids stuff. i am a mom, i have a 10 year old son. i RARELY at his age let him sleep in bed with me unless there is a thunder storm or he has a bad nightmare. he is just getting too old. i would feel down right creeped out letting him sleep in my bed if he was 16 or 21! there is no way. that is COMPLETELY inappropriate.

the whole thing sounds bizarre to the max.

drop me a line if you need anything.

mlhb

Funny where you see flags!

I'd be more concerned about the "rush" of things. I would never have pictures of me and a 3 month long boyfriend up with family pictures.

I'd be concerned about "love" at the 3 month mark.

I'd be concerned about the son dictating PDA.

Frankly if I were dating you, you wouldn't even have met my kids by now! (Much less having them dictate how much affection or observing their dynamics!)

Yeah, I agree the amount/type of affection between her and her nearly grown sons is weird...but there are other red flags that would have gotten my attention first!!!

Yes, that's what I mean.... Too many, all over the place.

I realize that none of us really "know" each other in the sense of every day talking & background etc. So I'm sure this has come across as HF has rushed headlong into something crazy.

That would be far from the truth!

Let me add more to try to help.

This lady & I were in college together years back, and knew each other in a limited way then. We have parents that are familiar. Her brother is someone I'm familiar with & my parents know him well. My little sister & husband go to the same church she does & their best friends are very close to this lady's 2 sons from elementary school days.

She & I have many mutual friends & acquaintences. We are from the same nearly exact background.

We have been in contact via emails, phone, getting to know each other better, etc before. The seeing each other part has been about 3 months now.

It turns out that due to circumstances (my job as a pilot) and her falling & breaking a wrist and getting time off from work, that we've been able to travel alot together, be together essentially every weekend & some during the week.

We converse daily via texts, phone, emails. This hasn't been just a romantic focus, but by mutual agreement has centered on doing important & worthwhile things together, attending church, cooking, cleaning, moving stuff, shopping, dealing with legal stuff, helping other folks, etc. We've met family together in a very low-key way. We've met friends together.

Our number of "romantic dates" has been limited on purpose.

But love has grown. It is centered on a friendship and also spiritual connections & prayer together.

If I tally up the amount of time we've been together in the past 3 months of direct contact (not including before we met), it's more like what would go into most folks 4-6 months of dating.

Don't know if this helps. Certainly not at all trying to justify loving her, and her me - don't need to. But just giving more disclosure to show some facts to help think this through.

Also, of all the women I've known...this lady has the most appeal, compatibility & attraction to me!! So she's a keeper for the most part.

And yet I have these issues mentioned above. I don't want to short-circuit the best relationship I've had to date. But I also don't want to get sucked into a no-win situation either.

Hence the post & questions.

Thanks all for the input so far. I'm reading carefully your words and thinking and thinking....

High Flight

Yes I do. 2 boys nearly like hers -- 16 & 18. We're very close. But I have to say - gently, that if you're having that sort of reaction to their calls, then something isn't right. You're living in fear!

I don't. I never ignore their calls. But I don't stop the world either. They are nearly grown young men! They need to be treated as such too. Her 21 yr old & my 18 yr old are adults legally! They can die for their country of their own choice. Vote. Leave home. Do time in jail for their own crimes, etc.

We parents are supposed to be preparing our kids for INdependence...not DEpendence!! That means a gradual giving them responsibility & learning to let go, not obssess and hang on & on and control them, & run their lives, etc.

I'm seeing far too many folks (not saying you at all, cause I don't know you) that are divorced and they turn their kids into "spouses" almost. Very unhealthy!

I'm just trying to see if that's what my girlfriend is really doing here.

My gut says she is. But I'm doing a "gut check" with you guys to see if I'm off base or not.

Thanks!!

i'll give you the same advice you gave me and that was to "go with your gut"

it is hard to see these things when you really love someone isn't it?

i am not sure anyone here is going to not see many red flags in what you describe. and it is going to be hard for you because she is the best of the best so far and you share that spiritual connection and pray together. now you know EXACTLY how i feel and what i am going through.

you have some tough decisions to make. they are not fun and i do not envy you.

(bad bad me! what i am doing on this board! i have homework to do darnit!)

mlhb

I'm listening...and I'm praying hard about everything. God ALWAYS steps in and helps me figure things out, but part of the way is through sounding ideas off of others.


I have begun to emotionally put the brakes on - hard! I'm not calling her as much. No more "I Love Yous". I'm not initiating the phone & email contacts now either. Waiting....Evaluating. I told her I needed to think this all through & protect my heart.

She is coming this Labor Day weekend, and wants to bring her son the next weekend to my home. That will entail sleeping arrangements, and she will say that he can sleep with her - cause I always put her in a really nice room with a queen sized bed & her own bathroom adjacent, etc. My home is large and I have other sleeping quarters in other bedrooms on an entirely different level at the other end of the house with separate bathrooms & showers, etc.

But her 16 yr old son sleeping with her in my home will not be an option for me - so this will come up.

Things will come to a head. And that's not bad. I don't like to waste time, emotional energy & money on a relationship that isn't going any where.

So I need to figure out this one.....

Still listening! Thanks everyone!!

High Flight

Well it sounds to me like it's "not going anywhere" only because you decided to stop it in its tracks. This lady seems to care greatly about you, and is looking forward to continuing the relationship - but now you decided that you don't like her relationship with her sons and so you need "space and time".

I agree that the relationship with the sons is a bit strange, but let's face it, it's not going to change. So you need to decide if you want to live with that or not.

Yet your tone implies to me like you are trying to punish her for something. Why would things come to a head? Why are you going to stop with the "ILY's"? Why is the relationship that is the best you ever had suddenly turning into a waste of time?

My advice would be that if you need some time apart to think, then take it - but don't have her come this weekend with her son only to set her up for things to "come to a head".

AGG

AGG ~ I appreciate the input, but again I'm reminded how sometimes inadequate this internet based communication really is. So 1 dimensional. Very difficult to get out enough info to provide a balanced & complete view.

But I appreciate your responding.

I'm not trying to stop a good thing. I'm trying to figure out IF it's going to have any future based on the yellow turning to red flags I'm seeing.

No punishment intended for her whatsoever. And I don't feel any "punishment" mentality at all in my heart, so I think that's a misread of my tone. Like I said, each family's different so not trying to project my values onto her, but is it a deal-breaker for me? Just checking my expectations with a group of folks who have similar experniences. And I'm hearing that my distain for her sleeping with her sons & kissing on them on the mouth etc., is NOT limited to me. That has been helpful.

I agree with your final comment about not having her come if I need time of to think. OTOH, sometimes in being together you get to your answer.

i specifically coach my kids to kiss all relatives cheek to cheek, dad to daughter always, etc. its the best at not spreading germs, but avoids the spousification of kids, as mentioned. . .

the sleeping the in same bad. . . that is way beyond normal, and reeks of insecurities about the divorce, and of insecurities of the role of a parent, versus a role of a friend. . .

ugh. . my X is very needy, and will take anyone at this point, to keep her from getting scared at night while sleeping alone. . .

wiftty

And it seems to be especially intoxicating to a "mom" because it feels like love to her....

I have another very astute friend who says that many of the divorced mothers she sees at her kid's college have this same hang-up. Trying to treat their boys like a psuedo-husband.

I don't think many parents today who are falsely consumed with being their kids "friends" have figured out how bad this really is for their kids.

~ HF

which means that she has issues, that eventually will get in between you and her at some point. ..

time to keep looking because you have to look farther down the road than just what you see today. ..

wiftty