Yup.. this is exactly how I'm thinking about this. I can't tell you how many 'thank you' prayers I said last night.. for just a 2 minute conversation.. but man, my heart is still singing.

This really -is- a spiritual battle.. with the character issues this uncovers for both me and my WW we've both got a lot of growing to do before reconciliation truly becomes an option for us. I'm doing a lot of growing.. I honestly don't think she feels the need to. Time, patience, and prayer for my strength and courage to keep fighting.. for her heart to soften and for circumstances to compile in her life that turns her back to her faith and to our marriage, and away from the bondages of sin that have her so tightly wrapped right now.

Sin sure feels good though, makes it awfully tough to break away from.


I tell ya brother.. my heart lept into my throat when I heard it.. I've got such great kids.



For me, this really isn't about getting even. If it were, it would force me to use the children as weapons as well, that's something I will not do. My wife, just like my children deserve nothing less than my complete love and devotion. Now, we make the distinction there that my WW, when she appears while I'm executing a Plan A-from-a-distance is going to roll off my back like water to a duck.

Gotta get through the holidays.. I've got great IL's too.. They aren't directly fighting, but they're not condoning the behavior either.. which is something at least.

The pressure cooker is heating up, and the reality check is made of rubber. Just a matter of time.

I've just got to make sure I'm mentally and emotionally ready when the house of glass and cards starts suffering the onslaught of rocks from the inside.

Have I mentioned she's deadly accurate with high heeled shoes?

I got so excited when I read that sentence.

As a step parent, I could never imagine keeping my child from the man who raised her and she calls Daddy.

Unbelievable. Heck, I was once a wayward but the things some of them do even surprise me.

OK found out the truth and sorry ,but cannot stay on board, this is plain and simple "censorship" when someone is allowed to manipulate not only idividual post but also complete threads.

Dont have time for that stuff. Please look for me in another forum that is not so biased.

Please note the follwing proof:

"Yes, I removed that thread as it was serving no useful purpose and continued to go downhill.?"

"Incidently, complaints or questions about the forum or MB TOS can be directed to me, any mod or Admin rather than discussing or complaining on the forum."

Enough said.

Bye!

Wow.. hey, I'm glad to have a FWW on the thread, maybe you can help me at least get a -little- understanding of the process you guys go through. I know there's countless threads on this, but -please- stick around.. I need that POV sometimes.

Specifically dealing with the lies.. is there a -reason- for the lies? I almost think that the more she lies to keep things hidden for me, the more she's actually showing that she cares by trying to 'protect' my feelings. Is it guilt? Maybe that she knows she's hurt me and just doesn't want me to hurt -more-? What's with that line of thinking? I almost think that if she were to allow herself to be honest with me, and/or herself that this whole thing would end very quickly.

I know my WW is -way- out there.. but I almost think that's a good thing in terms of how rediculous it must look to Wonderboy and his family.. I wonder if they realize she's a little unhinged at this point?

I still love the wife I knew, but my WW is driving me completely nutbags. I know I've been told I shouldn't try to make sense of anything, and I just can't at this point.. but it's like she's moving -so- fast with this guy, and the situation just becomes more and more outrageous.. and as things get farther and farther out there, she starts being nice?

Is it because I'm not talking R anymore? I'm -constantly- trying to get more time with DS.. constantly trying to get her to let me talk to DSD.. and now I've talked to DSD twice in one week.. it's -obvious- that DSD has no issues with me at this point.. why keep up the charade? Why deny visitation on my day off? Short notice and all? I still think DS wasn't at daycare.. I'll find out for sure tomorrow.

Her car was still parked outside of work at 5:15 tonight so she's working over again.. not rushing home to see Wonderboy.. that's when things started to go downhill for her and I in our M.. course, she is busy at work, I don't doubt that. But still.. she was rushing out of there for a good little while.

She didn't waste any time signing Wonderboy up at daycare to be elegible to pick up DS though.. that bothers me.. but I'm going to make sure to get the sign in/sign out sheets.. I think that might be a good ace to play for the final battle if we get that far.

Honestly.. I -think- I'm seeing cracks in the foundation.. she's thrown herself into buying a house right next door to Wonderboy's parents place.. I -know- the stress that comes with that.. I almost always now hear her snapping at one of the kids in the background when I'm on the phone with DS.. Wonderboy looked like someone punched him in the gut when he was sitting in the driver's seat of my van the other night.. I don't think things are turning out how she thought they would.. now does that make her madder at me? I'm sure she blames me.. for everything at this point.. even the troubles in her R.. but then again.. might it be that she's starting to realize some of what she has done?

I know.. I'm rambling.. but I'd really like to get a FWW perspective on some of these things.. speculate.. conjecture.. give me a 2X4 or something.. I'm trying not to be -too- hopeful.. I've seen the rollercoaster everyone else has ridden..

I just want so badly to hold her in my arms again, to have my kids playing in -our- house.. to walk into work every day with my head high knowing that I might have to slave away here to get a check.. but that check provides a great life for -OUR- family... and here in X hours I get to go home and work with DSD on her homework, pick up DS from daycare and run DD to practice.. I get to make a healthy meal for my family.. I get to hear about their day.. I get to tuck them into bed..

*sigh* I just miss 'em..

I'm really doing ok.. I'm actually happy right now, just those passing thoughts. I love.. I mean I truly love.. but I think what she's chasing is the high school puppy love romance.. it just doesn't last.

/rant

Glad you are doing so well. I am so glad you got to speak to DSD. Just keep at it. Those kids know you love them. Keep on showing it and she can just deal with it.

Thanks Guided.. I'm continuing to pray for guidance, and feel that I'm getting some good response from the lord. I keep running across the same scriptures over and over again. Simply telling me to wait for the Lord.

There is so much here that I want simply to say to my wife, but I know that right now she will not hear me.

I am today, filled with peace and love.. I can't wait to see my son tonight, spend time with him and hold him in my arms. Tonight will be a good night for certain.

Keep me and my family in your prayers folks, I can feel God moving in our lives.

James,

Sounds like you are starting off on a terrific day!

Enjoy!

I am.. and you know what.. looking at this situation from kind of a top down view, I almost wonder if her desire for having a baby isn't the real driving force here.

I examine a lot of the things she's said were wrong in the marriage, how I would hear her but let things roll off my back.. one of the recurring things we would have discussions about was the baby idea. Bear with me here folks and if I can get some input before tonight I'd like to hear it.

I want to find myself in a situation where I have a few moments to talk to her face to face, and here's a rough idea of what I'd like to say..

WW.. I just want to apologize to you, for all the times I've made you feel less than a full partner in this marriage. I understand now as I look back over our lives together that often I had to have things my way, and on my timeline, and how that wasn't fair to my wife, my partner in all things, or to this family. The best example I can think of is the issue of us having another child.

I've known for a long time that this is something that you have in your soul desired, perhaps even above and beyond our marriage to eachother. I know that my reluctance to be enthusiastic about it, making conditions and setting a timeline for it to happen was a source of major disrespect for you. As I have delved more deply into our faith, and the sacrement that is our marriage, I know now that in this example I have also been impeding God's will in our lives. I know and understand now that a big part of that sacrement is to have children and raise them in God's light and glory. This is just one example I know, and I have confessed and asked God for forgiveness for this act against him, now I ask it from you.

My deepest desire, WW, is that we both find our way back to God and to each other, and fulfill not only our vows, but our promises to God and our children that we would build a good Catholic family within the sacriment of marriage He blessed us with. I know that the innocence of our family is gone, and that trust and love are in short supply, but through our faith, and the strength of God I know that reconciliation is possible, and we can build our family the way we had initially set out to be.. not what we became.. stronger even than what we were before, as we will no longer be throwing roadblocks in the way of God's plan for us and our family.

Even if it is to better enable me to live my life without you, I just want you to know how truly sorry I am for all of the times, and all of the ways I did not treat you as an equal partner in our lives, how in making decisions and controlling my own life.. in turn controlled our lives without truly considering your needs and desires as well. For that, I am truly sorry.. and I ask you to forgive me for these things.

James, James, james.....

Pocket the letter.

IF you get face time with her it should NOT invoke God to such a degree, it should NOT be to teach her anything.

Until she ends her adulterous affair with OM NOTHING will sink in.

Any time you get should be used to demonstrate you are a good looking, confident guy and family man that is calm and strong....NOT desperate and needy...NOT mushy and holier than thou.

Use your time wisely. Stick to the do's and don'ts of Plan A.

Mr. Wondering

Thanks Mr. W.. and MEDC, I totally understand where you're at too.

Got it.. pocketing it... sitting on it.. and believe me, I look and -feel- great today.

Do's and Dont's of Plan A... you know.. I stuck that in my wallet a while back.. I need to review. Thanks guys

I thought you were in Plan B?

Writing a letter like that is the equivalent of appeasement. Apologizing for any ways you may have fallen short in the marriage is part of a Plan B letter.

I have to tell you Jameus that what you are doing is fueling the WW entitlement. But I know from personal experience that when we are grieving as badly as you are, that is the way the mind works. You remember in agonizing detail every single time you effed up, and then if only you could go back and undo. James, it is your mind playing tricks on you in a way. An attempt to try and find resolution. I am like you, I tend toward self-blame instead of blaming another. However, there is a way to get to a place where blame is not a factor, not of your own or of hers. But this takes time and the stages of grief can't be skipped.

You weren't that bad in the marriage, you both failed in some areas. None so worthy as to be left for, and as cruely as she has done.

It's not you James.

I am so sorry for what you are going though right now. I know your pain. But James, it won't hang on forever and soon joy will be your primary state. I promise.

(((Jamesus)))

No more letters and stop thinking along the lines you are right now. You both screwed up. She was the one who left. It wasn't because of you.

I would bet my last dollar that the OM isn't even 1/10th the man you are and he will not hold on to her either...because the problem is within her. She was not interested in making a great marriage, or she would have found a way to turn things around, had you been as bad as you think.

Thanks. You do need to know though I didn't recover my marriage. I stayed in the wayward mentality until way after my divorce. I have also since found out I'm bipolar and I think my affair was when I had my first full blown episode.


My affair ended way before I divorced but I still had that ww sense of entitlement. I refused to admit the truth. I told myself it was to protect him- that I should carry the guilt for what I did-but in reality it is because I was scared, didn't to be humiliated etc. I felt he was pushing me soooo hard (he didn't do Plan A and Plan B- only exposure) I'm sure he wasn't here at marriagebuilders. I didn't want to humble myself and ask for forgiveness- from my own H!! I felt so much resentment for years and years of neglect that I felt I couldn't possibly swallow my pride further to recover [/quote]


From my perspective I wanted to keep my exh's friendship- just not the intimate relationship. She may think that it will make the D easier etc??


I do not know about the talking relationship point. I think she's trying to paint this as "instant family" with wonderboy. Perhaps he's pressuring her for this?



That blows my mind. I would have never done that so I cannot fathom her reasoning for that.

[/quote]Honestly.. I -think- I'm seeing cracks in the foundation.. she's thrown herself into buying a house right next door to Wonderboy's parents place.. I -know- the stress that comes with that.. I almost always now hear her snapping at one of the kids in the background when I'm on the phone with DS.. Wonderboy looked like someone punched him in the gut when he was sitting in the driver's seat of my van the other night.. I don't think things are turning out how she thought they would.. now does that make her madder at me? I'm sure she blames me.. for everything at this point.. even the troubles in her R.. but then again.. might it be that she's starting to realize some of what she has done? [/quote]

Could be that she blames you. She may be coming out of the fog a bit but it took me a long time to wake up and say Oh My- look at what I've done!

Since you're wanting to recover perhaps you could really appeal to some of the more experienced FWW's as well?? I will be glad to answer any questions that you want but I think you may want to hear from the ones who did recover their marriages??

I will tell you one thing. I still feel guilt over what I did, especially to my children. For that reason alone I wish I would have done MB, counseling, etc and given it every last chance before I signed those papers- for their sake. You're doing the right thing. The question is will she wake up before it's too late??

Jamesus

Please forgive a quick TJ--but I have a question for coachswife.

CW--

Did you ever have any closure with your XH? Apologize, try to be friends after you came out of fog? I ask because my WH is WAY out there, and though I am sure his A will end, I think he will take the same path as you and not try to fix things b/t us even after the affair is over (and I don't mean that he tries to reconcile, just that he truly repents and tries to offer just compensation for what he's done to everyone he's hurt).

Thanks for the reply...

Smartie

Thanks Weaver.. I didn't do anything with the 'idea' except post it here. Glad I didn't though.

She finally got back to me about the holiday schedule.. sort of.

When she came to pick up DS tonight she said: We're doing Dinner this year for Thanksgiving. I don't even know if SIL is doing Thanksgiving this year

---- In other words.. 'we' being Wonderscumbag and his family *puke* ----


I said: Great.. well since Wednesday is my nite with DS how about I just keep him until 1 or 2 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving?


She said: Uh.. I don't know.. I'm not sure what's going on.


I said: Well when you figure it out, let me know.. I really need to have some idea so I can make holiday plans with my family.


Then I said goodbye again to DS.. he reached out to hug me again after she took him into her arms... made me feel pretty good.

She had Wonderscumbag driving my van again, and his mom in the passenger seat.. looks like she's been relegated to the 2nd row seat in her own car..

Kinda makes ya chuckle.. does she even begin to realize how rediculous she sounds?


----------------------

CW.. I'm sorry I made a bad assumption, not being familiar with your story.. I do still very much value your perspective here. Especially considering I think my wife may be in the same sitch.. including the bipolar thing.. is there -anything- you can think of that might have turned things around? Was it too late for your BS when you finally came out of the fog? Is there -anything- he could have done differently that might have affected the decision to go through with the D even after the A ended?

Aye-yay-yay not another letter!

Here's what I see: an instinct to communicate and negotiate, combined with speculation, speculation, speculation, combined with a reeeeeeally naughty urge to say "stop all that sinnin' and come back to church."

Regardless of your goals you'll be better off if you can resist these urges.

I'm trying really hard to resist those urges GC..

It's better for me though to get them out here at least. I fully expect 2x4's when I deserve them.

*sigh* maybe it is just pathetic that I still want her after all of this.

I've never sent a Plan B letter so much like Skinsgal I'm not -truly- in a Plan B. I'm following the advice I got from Harley on the radio show, and looking good, being warm to her when I have to interact with her, and doing everything I can think of to spend more time with DS and just be a good dad.

Don't know what else I really -can- do at this point. There's very limited conversation initiated by her, though she has moments where she reaches out.

Last night after she picked up DS she called about 10 minutes later.

Her: Did you feed DS?
Me: Of course I did. He had chicken with BBQ sauce, some fried potatoes, and has snacked on 2 banannas and an apple. I always feed him on the nights I have him except for Sunday because you pick him up early enough that he should probably eat with you.
Her: Yeah, I know.. but he says you didn't feed him.
Me: Baby, I -always- feed him.. you know that.
Her: Well, every time we pick him up he says you don't feed him.
Me: Is there anything else?
Her: Nope.
Me: *click*

You know.. between the -constant- stream of lies and half-truths, and this sort of crap.. I'm glad I'm not making these overtures to her.. even though I -feel- them.

SOOOOOOOOOooooooo frustrating.

I gave her 4 years of my life, worked my a$$ off every day to provide for this family and give her a life -so- much better than what she had.. to give our children a life that they deserved and were -HAPPY- in..

I deserve to be treated better.. this is horse pucky.

I wish she'd at -least- quit the lying.. what does she care if she hurts me with the truth at this point?

Not pathetic, necessarily, just not helpful 2 your (and your kids') long term well-being.


You did this because you are a man of integrity, and because it's your JOB. But now you're expecting it 2 have produced results in your W's behavior 2ward you. You have every right 2 hope it will, but no right 2 expect it 2.


More, you deserve - and owe yourself - a little more self-respect. Look at what you've done and are doing. It is okay 2 be happy with the kind of man you are becoming. Stop expecting your W 2 notice, and maybe someday she will. But she has 2 do that entirely on her own - any positive changes she makes will be in her own head and life.


Let this go 2. Just live your life the way you know it should be lived. Let her figure her own [censored] out.

-ol' 2long

Thanks 2long.. I appreciate the time it takes to post that, and the reminder that I'm only in charge of -me-.

Let's see how the peanut gallery reacts to this most recent email exchange for today:

Her:
Me:



So.. how'd I do?

Hi Smartie,
I did apologize and ask for his forgiveness- several times. He has not chosen to forgive me. With everything I have done since then I have tried to foster a good parenting relationship with him. It's gotten better. We've both moved on and remarried.

My infidelity was worse than anything he did to me, I completely acknowledge that. However, because I was unfaithful and he wasn't (that I know of) he takes that as a free pass to not acknowledge what he did that helped end the marriage. Hope this helps.