Medc, the original question is one of liability if a particular action is taken against the perpetrator.

Your aggressive approach is appropriate when directed at the perpetrator, not the victim and their spouse as you did. For someone claiming to be a professional in both law enforcement and sexual abuse counseling I found your comments to be questionable.

Mr. Wondering gave excellent advice and hopefully HBJ can take it and use it to get at least a modicum of closure for both himself and his wife. The rest is just uninformed conjecture and serves no one, least of all them.

you are entitled to your opinion about my agressive approach..but since I wasn't asking for it....

and yes, Mr. W gave good advice.

you are entitled to your opinion about my agressive approach..but since I wasn't asking for it....

Yes and HBJ didn't ask you or anyone else if his wife had an affair, he asked if he could be sued for telling the man's wife what he did. Period.

Uninformed second and third hand speculation from a board with a built-in infidelity bias muddys the water and does NOT promote healing for them. Both therapist and husband are satisfied with the account and I'm sure all parties have quite a bit of time invested in this. As I type this I realize that few here respect therapists as a whole but if I were HBJ I'd be careful about random internet advice.

That said HBJ: Dr. Harley's work is phenomenal, if you have time take a look around the actual site. You can pick up many, many good ideas to strengthen your marriage, just by by reading on the main site. I'd recommend getting the books too but I realize you probably have your hands full right now. In any case, I wish you the best, KB

and since it is not evident by the facts given what he did, it would be irresponsible to answer the question without getting appropriate information.

now...I have to go cure cancer. Bye.

and since it is not evident by the facts given what he did, it would be irresponsible to answer the question without getting appropriate information.

Repeat: Mr. Wondering answered the question.

The feelings expressed in the email to the perpetrator and the therapist’s conclusion are consistent with acquaintance rape, therefore there is no reason to seek further clarification UNLESS it is for the purpose of zeroing in on and blaming the victim.

You know what…..it isn’t till you’ve actually experienced an assault yourself that you realize that you will always be questioned and always question yourself. People can tell you it wasn’t your fault a million times and yet you still dig up some little perceived wrong move, wrong look to try explain the unexplainable.

... my friend who trusted her friend’s husband to give her a ride home can’t believe she even accepted a ride, all the women I've known over the years who went on dates "gone bad", my dear sweet relative who trusted her boss 30 years ago blames herself for inviting him in even though her children were due home in less than 10 minutes, the countless women on sex abuse forums who weep over their computers as they type, trying to figure out why…..it just never ends. Rapes go unreported for a reason...this situation and how it's been treated here just really makes me feel sad.

from the above statement, does that mean you immediately went home and told your H what happened, or has that not happened? Just curious/

All Blessings,
Jerry
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No, not immediately...it was sometime later that I was able to tell him about what happened and his response was "what kind of signals were you putting out there?"

I realize now that i WAS putting out the wrong signals...I didn't then...I thought the man and I understood each other...I thought it was nothing more than innocent flirting...not much different than many of the relationships I witnessed.

Sorry to threadjack.
It is quite possible that there are details that HJJ knows and has not shared w/ us or perhaps some that his wife has not shared w/ him ....but I am having a difficult time w/ some of the responses he is getting.

okay knewbetter. I defer to your vast experience (or at least that of your friends and family) in this field. You are right, I was blaming the victim here. Your perceptions are dead on the money.
I never experienced a sexual assault. I couldn't possibly ask those same questions. Not possible.
Once again, you are right...now go tell your friends and family that you are ready to go forth on your own.

Well who would have thought that I would strongly agree with MEDC.



You might be forgetting that the "perpetrator" in our legal system is innocent until proven guilty. A big part of the responsibility for law enforcement officers is to determine if a crime has been committed. When a complaintent indicates he/she was raped and there is no physical evidence and their story doesn't make sense, it is difficult, if not impossible to pursue any type of prosecution.

As I indicated on another thread, I did my thesis on police treatment of rape victims and interviewed dozens of officers from several states, including members of both large and small departments.

The single thing that really came across was the significant number of false accusations when it comes to rape. Later in my career, I have seen this occur many times.

I think that we may have lost site of the issue of this thread, which is informing the OM's BW. Yes, they should do so, and there have been very valid suggestions as to how that should be done already addressed here.

Beyond that, HBJ will need to address what I believe to be his own doubts as to the veracity of his wifes story. We don't really have enough information to make further recommendations at this point.

Who

"Everything up to that point was kinda OK, kissing, pushing me back on the sofa, removing my underwear, and so on. And you *definitely* shouldn't have had sex with me."

If consent is a continuum, to me this episode is on the consensual side of halfway.

Who knows what she was thinking? More likely curiosity or desire than 'freezing'.

I commend her for trying to be honest with you but I think she has a way to go yet.

My guess is he pushed things and she let him or resisted in a token way.

Have you considered buying 'Surviving an Affair'?
Any yes, his W deserves to know, and her knowledge will help ensure no contact. Despite your W's protestations, I'd treat this guy as an OM and a threat to your M.

I think this whole thing is fishy as well. I think that this whole "acquaintance rape" is the perfect excuse for getting away with an affair. His wife probably enjoyed all the attention OM gave her, and she allowed him to meet her needs. Well, she didn't want to have SF with OM, but she felt pressured into it because she wanted OM to continue meeting her ENs. That's the story of most WW's. However, this one actually immediately felt guilty about it, and stopped what she was doing. Instead of admitting any responsibility for what happened and having poor boundaries with men outside of marriage, she went into victim mode and started crying rape. I would liken this to how WW's normally blame the WS for cheating; instead, she has blamed OM. I really truly believe that she has told herself that rape was what actually occurred because she doesn't want to admit to herself that she allowed herself to have an affair.

What happened to HBJ? The poor guy hasn't posted in a while. I hope he's okay.

I thought it was sad that some guy takes advantage of his wife and HBJ is worried about confronting the guy. Shouldn't it be the other way around? If I were HBJ, that other guy had better be sleeping with one eye open.

I think it goes with the territory. If you're going to mess around with another man's woman, you had damn well better be prepared to face her man..........someday.

she didn't want to have SF with OM, but she felt pressured into it because she wanted OM to continue meeting her ENs. That's the story of most WW's. However, this one actually immediately felt guilty about it, and stopped what she was doing. Instead of admitting any responsibility for what happened and having poor boundaries with men outside of marriage

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that sounds like a good possible scenario to me....w/the info we have.
who knows for sure?

was it rape if that situation?
I don't think so...but, i do think the OM should be called on his actions to push himself on a married woman (if she was flirting w/ him or not) and I do think his wife should be told of the situation. THAT's the simple part.

Im saying the story sounds fishy. I know for a FACT, that my wife and alot of women I know, would NOT have let a guy in their room if he came onto them.

Now, if they wanted to have an affair/sex.........SURE, they would let him in.

Its common sense.....I dont understand the confusion or blurred lines. Its not like the guy didnt try to kiss and hold the woman prior. Im willing to bet she knew he was going to try again. IMHO

While on a business trip, my wife's coworker made an advance and kissed her. My wife was shocked and said that couldn't happen again. But later that night, the man came to her room uninvited, and managed to convince her to let him in, to "talk". But shortly thereafter he pushed her up against the wall and began kissing and touching her. She pulled away and went over to the sofa, confused about what was happening. He followed her, pushed her back on the sofa and continued kissing her and removed her shorts and underwear. For about 5-10 seconds he engaged in intercourse until she more forcibly said, No we have to stop!!!
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From SO
m saying the story sounds fishy. I know for a FACT, that my wife and alot of women I know, would NOT have let a guy in their room if he came onto them.

Now, if they wanted to have an affair/sex.........SURE, they would let him in.

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SO....Just because she let him in the room does not mean she intended to have sex w/ him......or even wanted to.


I do think we are missing some details to this story.
mainly what was going on in the marriage BEFORE this business trip?
why did the W have such poor boundaries?

I agree that she SHOULD NOT have let him in the room but just because she did does NOT mean she intended to have sex w/ him...

your words puzzles me.......it sounds like you are saying that IF a woman allows a man into her hotel room she wants sex! Even if she says NO...."I don't need to believe her if she says no because she let me in the room."
it's scary!!

i am not saying the woman is all innocent but just because she let a man she knows in her hotel does not mean she invited him in for sex. If that is what most men think.no wonder there is so much misunderstanding about what is and what is not rape.

No...but she let a man into her room that was already pressuring her to kiss/etc...

That's the key distinction. He'd already given her indicators that he was pushing to cross that line. If she didn't want him to continue, she should have told him so up front. She should have refused to let him in her room. She should have not created the situation where he thought it was ok to proceed. Instead, not only did she allow him in the room, she retreated to the couch where physical intimacy was more possible. She allowed the kissing to continue, and even went on to allow him to remove her clothing.

She may have been confused about what she wanted...I'll grant you. But it seems very clear that she took no action at all of these opportunities to put an end to it. She created a set of circumstances for it to happen.

I think she was at least considering having sex with him, given all of these decision points that she chose to allow things to continue. She may have changed her mind at the last minute, or whatever.

Its not just a matter of her letting him in the room...its ALL of these factors that throw doubt on her story.

Owl said it all for me.....


.....Nia.....you cant be that naive.

She may have been confused about what she wanted...I'll grant you. But it seems very clear that she took no action at all of these opportunities to put an end to it. She created a set of circumstances for it to happen.

I think she was at least considering having sex with him, given all of these decision points that she chose to allow things to continue. She may have changed her mind at the last minute, or whatever.

Its not just a matter of her letting him in the room...its ALL of these factors that throw doubt on her story.

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i can agree w/ that. The way you described the possible situation is very similar how I imagined it.
and i agree that she does bear some responsibility for allowing things to go as far as they did......BUT, if it happened exactly the way she said ......Did she deserve what she got (even though she said no) because she had poor boundaries?

...Nia.....you cant be that naive.
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Actually SO.....I WAS.
I really WAS and i am very afraid for all the naive women out there.

I don't know if HBJ's wife is one or not but if this forum is any indication of the law, the naive are screwed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Exactly......That is why people need to wizen up......the world is going to ****** in a hand basket. Thats another story....but, I really thinks there is more to this whole thing than meets the eye.

You know, I had to go back and re-read the first post here. It certainly appears to me that the word no doesn't seem to have been said until after intercourse was initiated.

In her email to OM, she states


I'm wondering if there was not some free flowing alcohol earlier in the evening?

Honestly, with even her admitting that he may have believed it was consentual, there is a snowballs chance of even finding a prosecutor willing to try it.

Guess the only recommendation I have is that yes, the OM's BW should be told. This guy is a predator and has probably done this crap before.

Who