before you decide this:


did you see this from RLT?


isn't it RLT that you were trying to communicate with, on HER situation.

don't worry so much if EVERYONE agrees. RLTneeds your input too. i sure hope you don't stop giving it and leave her with an unbalanced view. know what i mean?

FinallyLrningT2H
Thanks for that. I guess I will have to remain clueless <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

ALL Blessings,
Jerry

yeah, i guess i could of tried to call the mods out on that huh?

but what i learned from last time is:

1. it doesn't matter what others say to me
2. it DOES matter what i say to others. (not apecifically those trying to attack me but to those in need.)
3. having a moderator is kinda stupid (jmho of course).

I'm rearlly glad my shout out helped you!!

Jerry, are you ok? i just read all that again and well, it does seem out of place for you to get so upset.

well, maybe. i don't really know. i guess i can't say i "know" you very well to know if your reaction is out of your norm or not.

but it is worth asking you; is this triggering something in you?

Hi Jerry,

I am glad that Finally started this thread because I kind of felt bad. I just read thru the latest posts on RLT's thread.

I find myself having to really step back and not get into sparing matching with folks here.

In the end, RLT will make her own decision having carefully considered the "conflicting" advice of the posters here.

I think there is great value in the differing opinions because it gives her the wiggle room to see that she has to do what is right for her at this point in time.

Take Care.

Who

Jerry,

I just posted to RLT's thread and part of that post was that I agree with you on her sitch.

She has to decide how much is too much to recover from, but IMO, to fight so long and so hard for something and just as a possible breakthrough happens to give up because it was more than you thought at first is not logical. That is why I asked her what she would do with the information once she knew the truth.

I think it all comes down to broken expectations. She wanted the truth, but what she really wanted was to know that she already knew all of the truth. When she found out that she didn't know the truth after all, her expectations were destroyed and she ended up being even more hurt.

But then I'm the guy who spent 10 years fixing doors in the house before breaking down and replacing them with new ones and it turned out to be a lot less work in the long run...

Mark

Jerry... There are some here that think their advice is the only advice that should be listened to and they will fight tooth and nail to defend their stance.

Your opinion is important!!! Don't you doubt that for a minute.

FinallyLrningT2H,

Thanks for this thread. I became really frustrated, and lost much respect for some of the long time posters on this board yesterday on a couple of other threads for just this reason. It seems there are a handful of regulars that have bonded together as MB Disciples and will actually ATTACK anyone to dares have a differing opinion.

I understand I'm relatively new here and dealing with my own issues, but I don't appreciate the holier than though, condascending, arrogance that I received yesterday on the "guilt" and "no contact" thread and then witnessed later on RLT's thread.

To blindly follow any philosophy without recognizing individual dynamics of diverse situations, and then follow up in attack-mode with anyone who may view the situation from a slightly different perspective, borders on cult-like behavior, and personally, I just don't care for added drama in my life at this moment, and I bet there are others dealing with their own demons that feel the same.

Again, thanks for starting a thread that allows us to vent our grievances.

I personally think Jerry is one of the more valuable people on these boards. My posts yesterday disagreed with his position...but they were respectful to him at every turn. People are using words like "attack" and such...but I dare anyone to find any words that I said yesterday that were an attack on Jerry. He is a good and kind man that sees this situation differently than I do...but that doesn't lessen his value to the poster or to this board.

MyREv...you brought those comments on yourself yesterday with your own rude comments. You say people bonded together against you...well, perhaps that is because your words and opinions were clearly wrong.

FLTH has become so enamoured with her self pity parties that these threads are becoming commonplace for her now. Whining about the board...whining about the mods...please, give it a rest. Justuss clearly stated to you before that if you have a problem with the way they handle these boards, email her off the board and your issues will be addressed.

mkeverydaycnt

not everything is about you. did you notice the referenece to the words "have a clue"?? did you say that? or are you just used to having to defend yourself so often because ummm, perhaps you bug people so often.

and you are unbelieveable rude to say what you said about me.

this thread was for jerry.

and for the record, i did email justuss off the boards. my issues were NOT addressed.

perhpas because your "issues" have zero merit. and the reference above...the have a clue comment was in response to a judgement about someones motives...which in fact was untrue.

Gosh, I hate to see the banter that I witness here, sometimes.

Really, you are ALL valuable. Everyone of you.

Jerry, I respect and value your opinion. To tell you the truth, if I were following my heart right now instead of my head, I would jump at your advice.

I know everyone here will think I'm stupid for saying this after all of this horrible, horrible stuff has come out--but I do love Mr. RLT. I just could not imagine loving anyone else.

BUT ... I have to start thinking with my head, for once, instead of blindly following what I feel.

Jerry, please, if you feel you have something to say on my thread, say it.

Don't worry about what others are saying.

I appreciate EVERYONE here.

MEDC,

Thank you for illustrating the point I was making re: the MB Disciples. You seem to have a flawed definition of "rude", as I saw much more rudeness from the Disciples, while blindly defending their positions ... you may want to re-read those threads with a more open mind.

This board in general does an excellent job of identifying and stopping affairs ... Plan A & B are great, but once a M is in an attempted R, the quality of the advice goes downhill fast because many of the long time posters are advising to put a square peg into a round hole with no modification for specific circumstances.

I agree that most A's follow a surprisingly similar pattern. Therefore, identifying and stopping those A's can be handled in a cookie-cutter fashion. However, once R is attempted, then ALL OF THE VARIABLES AND HISTORY of the relationship come into play, and the cookie-cutter advice becomes much less useful, and in some cases completely couter-productive.

The wise person will use the advice as a broad framework, while recognizing their own unique characteristics and modify that cookie-cutter to their own situation. To do otherwise is simply trying to put a "one size fits ALL" remedy on the most complicated and devastating experience of a person's life.

Feel free to be brainwashed into thinking there is ONLY ONE WAY, but there is no reason to criticize those who are capable of thinking for themselves.

Myrev...I am not a cookie cutter for every sitch person. If you read my signature line you will see a reference to Kool Aid there. That was in response to me calling some people out on not being willing to adapt MB to an individual circumstance.
BUT that does not mean that there aren't certain absolutes...there are. You may see everything in shades of gray...but your failure to see some things as B/W is not a strength.
And I had no problem with anything more than your attack on vets here yesterday...people that have chosen to stay and help others. Your words were unprovoked and uncalled for.

NC is a not only a basic tenet of MB..but it is also common sense.

RLT - don't let the bickering over opinions get to you. We all care. You seem very conflicted right now on what to do. Maybe you should take a little time to just be and breath. I'm not talking about a year... just a week or two. Take stock in your M... look around you at your life. Make a decision YOU can live with.

{{{RLT}}} I'm sorry you find yourself here. Have faith that it can and will get better. I'm a firm believer in the saying "When one door closes, another one always opens". If you do end up D'ing your H, you WILL be okay.

MR, people here do not advocate no contact for life because they are "brainwashed," but because it is tried and true, SOUND ADVICE. That is a "one-size-fits-all" solution as advocated by Dr. Harley.

To suggest otherwise, as you have done, is "not wise."

And he is hardly "brainwashed" and neither are long time posters here, rather they are EXPERIENCED. You ARE NOT. He is a credentialed, licensed psychologist with 35 years experience. YOU ARE NOT.

Further, we come here on this board to help people learn and implement Marriage Builders principles. We are not experts ourselves, and don't fancy ourselves as such. That is why we discuss Marriage Builders principles on the MB board and help newcomers understand them.

As far as the other thread about which you are whining, you weren't "attacked," you were advocating dishonesty and fraud and were quite soundly refuted. You couldn't defend your point and are just sore. I guess you think its ok for YOU to challenge others but not ok for them to challenge you.

Just know and understand that if you are going to advocate dishonesty and mindlessly challenge Marriage Builders principles, you should be prepared to defend your position. Whining about being "attacked" when your positions are challenged will not serve to support your position. Nor is it realistic to imagine that you are entitled to challenge and put down MB principles without challenge.

MyRev:

I started listening to Dr. Harley's radio show and was really pleasantly surprised about how his advice takes into account the specifics of each caller. The great man himself sees the shades of gray.

Actually, Dr. Harley is quite black and white. Grey "thinking" indicates fuzzy confusion and an inability to discern truth. That does not desribe Dr. Harley at all. Situations may be grey, but principles are not and the truth certainly is not.

The issue that MR thinks we should be fuzzy and accommodating about about is that of no contact with the AFFAIR PARTNER. I assure you that Dr. Harley has NEVER EVER vacillated on this subject. He is ADAMANT that all contact end for life. ADAMANT.

If anyone has any doubts about that, please call him right now at 888-606-1776 and ask him how "gray" he is about the subject of no contact with an affair partner.

ML,

Once again you are ranting about positions that were never taken. I am a firm believer in NC. However, the situation on the NC thread had some peculiarities. The WW was under contract ... now as a business professional, I respect a signed contract as much as I respect my marriage vows. They are both contracts and I will not compromise my ethics to violate either.

The BH seemed to be OK with allowing the WW to fulfill her contract and we only suggested a few boundaries that could be implemented to help him through that period. I don't think I would approve of it if it were my WW, but I'm not THAT BH.

Also, I think we may have a difference of opinion based largely on gender, and I do see a difference in thinking between BH's and BW's. In this case, we were dealing with an EA, which is normally easier to BH's (but no so for BW's) to deal with when there hasn't been a physical component to the A.

Anyway, I think their could be a situation where modified and monitored LIMITED Contact could be dealt with "temporarily" until the WW's contract expired. Not the perfect solution, but possibly a workable solution that would maintain everyone's individual ethics.

You saw it as a "Black & White" deal breaker ... we disagreed ... so be it.

well, that says it all doesn't it???