I think the posters, and especially the veterans, on this board do a great job of helping people. IMO, their intentions are good.

What has troubled me for a long time is that some posters have the viewpoint that the Harleys' advice is the same in every situation, especially if they can find a quote on the topic. Not true. I counseled directly with them multiple times, and the advice I received was different than the standard advice in the books and articles in three important ways. When I pointed this out in a post where I was trying to help someone, I was vehemently attacked by a veteran poster. I hesitate to name the poster because I found her attack disturbing and abusive, to put it nicely. (I'm not the only one who has been treated like this by that poster.) As a result, I haven't posted in a long time and don't even try to help others.

What I would like to emphasize is that the Harleys' advice may vary in each particular case, and may even seem to contradict what is written in their books or articles. There is good reason for this, at least there was in my case, and there may be in other cases.

Just something to consider...

neverthesame, I have spoken to the Harleys about this very issue and they do hope we follow MB concepts rather than "contradict" them as you say. First off, we are here to learn Marriage Builders concepts so it would only make sense that we post quotes if the goal is to learn Marriage Builders. That is what this forum is for, not for the purpose of "contradicting" MB principles. The concepts WORK and that is what counts. We wouldn't be helping anyone if we didn't help them implement them.

Secondly, Steve is a licensed counselor and we are not. He has license to cut corners if he sees fit and we do not. He is trained and we are not. Sometimes he might do something slightly different because he is a professional and knows how to manage the situation in a specific way. We are not professionals here and are not qualified to disregard principles according our own personal opinions.

I don't know about you, but I am not a licensed psychologist/marriage coach, the only thing I am qualified to do is sell soft drinks.

It is an unrealistic expectation to believe that non-professionals on an internet board, discussing principles from a book, can offer the exact same counsel as a licensed psychologist in a clinical environment.

I don't know the specifics of the situations to which you refer, but I will say that folks don't just mindlessly parrot MB principles, whether they fit or not, but do understand the situation and apply them intelligently. Your post is sort of vague so I can't speak to your complaint specifically, but that has been my experience.

p.s. another point that needs to be made is that Dr. Harley wrote the books and most of the articles on this website. You counseled with STEVE OR JENNIFER. So, its not really a matter of a contradiction but of comparing the viewpoints of different ppl. Dr. Harley has more strenuous views on certain issues than does Steve, and vice versa.

Even so, if you think that Dr Harley would contradict something he has written, it is up to you to make that case directly. Make your case and offer up supporting evidence. Without that, though, his quotes stand.

I am very new here and i feel the same way. Some of the posters a RUDE in my opinion.

I have observed ad hominem arguments on some occasions, and it bothers me because I think it detracts from the purpose of these boards. As ML pointed out, people here work to apply the MB principles intelligently, but as we are all different, there will be different interpretations and different levels of emphasis given depending upon the person, and as ML also point out, even among the MB team. Where we show our maturity is in being able to respectfully discuss these points backed up by facts without resorting to personal attacks.

As always, JMHO

I agree with you NTS. This subject has been brought up many times and yet it still continues.

Well stated !!!

I was being drawn into just this type of debate with a couple of the regulars with high post counts, that wanted to attack any position I took contrary to THEIR INTERPRETATIONS of Dr. Harvey's writings, because I wasn't a licensed therapist regardless of the validity of the argument I was making.

Here's a tip for you all ... I was getting upset with their petty attacks until I found that this site has an "IGNORE" button on each posters profile. Click on that button and the "problem" disappears.

I participate on other message boards, mostly related to my hobbies, and it seems every board has a holier than thou know it all group that tries to monopoloize the debates. Just "IGNORE" them and they lose influence and you will enjoy your time here much more.

I don't think that it is too difficult to "interpret" Dr. Harvey's writings, but if you find you have such difficulties, with your admitted "gray thinking problems," you can ask other board members, see a psychiatrist, or call Dr. "Harvey" yourself directly. It really isn't difficult to interpret and understand at all, this isn't rocket science.

But, the purpose of the board is to "interpret" Dr. "Harvey's" writings, after all. It is not to apply our OWN "interpretations" to his quotes.

And your position - advocating dishonesty - was soundly refuted on its own merits and lack of validity, btw. By numerous members. No one needed a quote from Dr. Harley to reject your position.

see, what FCF and MyRev don't seem to get is that it is not their job to decide what gets posted. If a moderator decides something is against the terms of this site, then they edit it.
There's just a little group here that feels the mods don't handle things as they should. So, these little threads pop up very frequently now...oh well...I've been here for a while and there is nothing that comes from these people that will alter my postings.

MR, do you have "gray thinking problems"? i think they make a pill for that.

Well, I certainly hope so, because it seems to be a real impediment to clear, concise thinking.

i'm sure they make a pill to solve rudeness too.... for those that have that problem.

flth...must be looking for another mod smackdown.

good luck with that.

MEDC, I agree 200%. I have never understood the point of threads that were designed to just whine about other posters, since they are absolutely fruitless. People post in the style and manner that suits THEMSELVES, not others.

Its pretty arrogant, and unrealistic, to imagine that folks are going to change their posting styles to live up to the personal standards of others. Pity parties bemoaning the failure of others to live up to the personal standards of the thread starter is an exercise in futility and a waste of board energy.

Like they say in AA, ya can't control people, places and things, you can only control yourself.

I wouldn't know, since I am a PEACH. **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If you're referring to the "honesty" debate, my opposition to your opinion had little if anything to do with if you were a licensed therapist or not.

IMO your argument had no merit simply because (a) you were trying to identify honesty as the problem, when the true problem was adultery, and (2) you were basing your suggestion of taking a "conditional honesty" approach on only one, and IMO quite improbable, outcome of following your advice and refusing to look at the other possible outcomes of doing so.

hey, only 13 more pounds to go....didn't you know that running your mouth won't get you there. you need to run.

interesting... you say it's a waste of energy and yet you still are using yours by responding, and gee, by whinning about the fact that this thread exists.

AGree, MIM. His argument was soundly refuted on its own merits - by numerous posters - not because he isn't a licensed psychologist. He is just sore that he couldn't make his case and is crying about it.