After 2 semi-confrontations: the first was when I had my suspicions confirmed about what was going on & it was still an EA then...as far as I know or could tell. That was back in June/July. We had another "talk" about 2 or 3 weeks ago but nothing much came out of that one.

So I decided to go ahead with the whole hog because I couldn't live this way anymore. I told him I knew about it and have known since the beginning. He kept asking to see my proof but I refused to show it to him. I told him that he knows what he is doing and so do I so I don't need to show him.

I wrote him a letter re: this. Everything was very calm; no shouting or anger. The only time I messed up was when he said he wanted to keep the letter and I grabbed it and threw it in the flowerbed. I apologized later and gave it back. He said he wanted to read it over some more times. I thought he probably wanted to talk it over with "her" and that's why I took it at first. And I told him why, too.

So I'm not sure what to do now...I know he talked to her last night and I'm sure he'll be talking to her plenty today. I told her H at the beginning of this but he was in major denial, even after I showed him correspondence. I'm sure he must have changed his mind by now since it has still been going on, but I'm not sure if I need to contact him again or what?

Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out what to do next. Can someone please offer a little advice? This is the first time anything like this has happened to us, we USED to be exclusively exclusive & very tight.

I told him I didn't want there to be any lies between us anymore and if we were going to heal that there would have to be NC. He didn't reply to this, though.

Thanks in advance,

C

Charlotte

This is a journey now and here's the beginning.

Your WH:
Is having an A (either EA or PA or both)
He will lie
He will wonder how much you know
He will want to cake eat as long as possible
He is having needs met by both of you
As long as he is allowed to continue, he will

This is your part:
Time to expose the A to OWH again and any family member or friend that may have influence over him

Read this:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


Exposure is your strongest weapon against the A. Use it, and use it wisely. Do not tell him that you are going to do it, just do it. Expect more anger. Your M can survive his anger, but it cannot survive if he remains a WS.

Start a good plan A. If you can call the Harleys for advice. Read Surviving an Affair. You will learn the dynamics of affairs. They are all pretty much the same. The WS use the same script.

Your WH will try to rewrite history and put you in a bad light. He is trying to justify his actions to himself. He is probably addicted to the feelings of the A, not the OW. She could be anyone.

He has weaknesses that he did not protect. It is a slippery slope.

Keep coming here. Read, read, read.

Thank you, MicheleG. I have been reading a lot of different books and coming here a lot, trying to get some feel of what others are going through (not hard to do since the stories are nearly "cookie cutter" stories that vary in some details but the basic framework is the same.)

I have been trying really hard to detach somewhat so it wouldn't hurt so badly and also hoping his conscience might get to him before I had to bring out the "big guns," so to speak. I knew it would only be a matter of time before he either quit or I would have to go ahead with the rest of plan A. I have been doing the carrot part pretty good but not the stick part, except when I contacted the OWH.

I know he's not going to want to go NC with this person at this time so I'm trying to be really careful about who else needs to be told. Only 3 others know about what's going on, well, 4 if you cound a PI friend of mine but I haven't been in ongoing correspondence with him. The three that are actively updated are: my doctor (occasionally); my IC-weekly; and my sister-sporadically.

I am really scared. I know he still loves me in his own way and doesn't really want to leave because he needs me, even though he won't directly admit it. But the addiction is strong, as a lot are, and that's what's so scary.

Neither of us can really leave because of financial considerations...the only place he could maybe go would be to his brother's house. And he might decide to do that. I'M NOT leaving, however.

Deep down I think he knows that his situation with her is temporary but who knows what craziness he might resort to in the interim? He was basically unchallenged before, except for the two semi-confrontations and last night's big one.

I got the "talk" the first time I contacted the OWH...H threatened to walk out and I'd never see him again, etc. I also got the "it will hurt my feelings if you don't believe me" speech back then as well.

Also, someone from work called HR on them and I guess his boss talked to him & her boss talked to her. I was blamed for this, of course. At any rate they seem to be very lax about what goes on in that workplace since most of the time H spends with OW is at the office. I know they go places but it's so far been limited to during working hours and some late "working" hours & sometimes "working" on the weekend. (Yeah, and I'm the king of Siam. Or queen.)

Anyway, I'm sure there will be plenty of discussion about this between the two of them today at work. Makes me ill. And I have to go see a surgeon today to find out if I'll need surgery on an injury sustained when I was trying to help H a few months ago. He asked me to call when I find out what's what. Well, at least he still cares if I'm dead or alive.

Thanks again,

C

Welcome. Contact the OW's husband again, and offer more proof. Also expose the affair at work since it is continuing. Let hubby's friends and family know what he is up to.

Think of him as an addict who has to get his fix. He will do whatever he can to get it.

You can make changes in yourself, especially anything he complained about BEFORE the affair. Stay calm and cheerful.

This will be hard, but you should also call his boss. Nuclear exposure.And expect his anger. But calmly react to it, like in the carrot and the stick. You are not sorry for exposing.


We have all been here. What would you do if you weren't afraid?

Ending this A is your first priority.

Your WH will lie, play guilt trips on you, do anything and everything he can to get his fix and keep you in the wings. He will look you straight in the eye, with loving arms around you and LIE. Do not believe a word. You will need to let his angry words roll off your back and stick to your guns. Your goal is getting this A to end.

Welcome MichelleG,

I gave in to the fear and shame and did not expose. D was final 8/30/07.

Hi Bellevue,

Thank you for sharing that. I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. (((Bellevue))) I have no idea if things will work out for us or just me at this point but I am gaining courage each time I come here & see everyone's stories.

I didn't really expect the reaction I got last night. I thought either H or myself would end up leaving for the night to sleep elsewhere. I didn't want to do that myself, I thought that he might go, but he didn't.

He was talking about how I "blindsided" him with this information. It would be funny if it weren't so tragic. I blindsided HIM? Anyway, I guess we'll see what happens after he comes home from work tonight. If he's willing to talk about us.

I just don't want to screw this up now so I'm frightened about what's next. I plan on calling OWH tomorrow since I have to go see a surgeon today. I'm trying to think of what I need to say when I call H's boss, I'm not sure how to frame it.

As far as OWH, I'm going to tell him AGAIN & see if his reaction is any different this time. I will encourage him to come to this site, if he hasn't already done so. I suspect he might be in the same place I was before last night...waiting for the A to end.

Thanks again, Bellevue and if anyone can help me with the next step, please share your wisdom!

C.

Another question for anyone here:

Do I need to contact the OW again myself? The first time I did it I sent an email with just a few lines stating my position, etc. I did NOT use any profanity or anything like that. It was cordial. I'm sure that she made a big thing out of it like it was a threat or something, though. Also, H saw it because I let him read it at the time. I'm sure they had a lot of fun discussing that one & dissing me.

Anyway, do I do this? Or should I wait to see if he is open (or at least SAYS he is) to NC with a letter, etc.? This is tough since they work in the same building, but different sections.

Thanks,

C.

edited to add:

If you go the exposure route, here's what to remember:
Do not warn him ahead of time.
Organize your call list, your email list, and the mailing addresses of people with power at their job.
Organize your call list, your email list, of family members and anyone who came to your wedding who believes in fidelity. And also anyone who doesn't believe in fidelity.
Expose all at once.

Exposure message should read:

I know that WH is having an affair with OW. I am exposing their affair to end it. I love my H and I want to keep our marriage together. Affairs thrive in secrecy. If you have any influence with WH or with OW I ask that you let them know you disapprove of their behavior and urge them to end the affair and go home to reconcile their own marriages.


The effective tool you can use is to contact the HR dept at their job and expose the affair. people here have written suggested letters. Some companies have weak policies about fraternization; others are very strongly opposed to employees using company resources to further their affairs. With sex harrassment lawsuits in recent years, management can be skittish about what goes on in working hours.

Are you willing to go the route of informing H's supervisor and all the way up to the top of the company? And informing the OW's supervisor etc?

You know, don't you, that he will be angry if you expose and tell you that "Now you've done it, I can never trust you again! The marriage is over. You've hurt me and you have hurt an innocent woman (!) with your evil mind."

Or any variation of that,

such anger is to be expected.

A "pretty please" email to the OW will not work.

(((Charlotte22)))

Oh, I was also afraid of what could happen to my H's career, which is one reason I didn't expose. In hindsight, I believe his career would not have ended. He is so good at what he does that even had he been let go, headhunters would have been courting him.

Thank you, Bellevue. I was so unsure about what wording I should use. Do you think emails to superiors are better than speaking with them on the phone? I know his direct supervisor but I'm not sure of the ones above him since there was some revamping done in the company. I don't know her direct supervisor. The HR department is at another location but I'm sure I can find the right numbers to call. I know he will be p*ssed, he was really p*ssed the last time after I called the OWH and even after I returned a call to OWH after OWH called me but did not leave a message.

I guess I'll just have to grit my teeth and go for it.

C.

Charlotte

If you have a number for the boss, I'd call. That way they hear a SANE, CALM woman who is trying to save her M, not some crazy weirdo sending out mass emails. I think it will make it more personal to them.

I would basically say that WH is having an A with OW. That you want to try to recover your M and would appreciate any assistance from them to separate them in the workplace. You know for a fact that an A cannot end if there is continued contact...something along those lines. Try to stay logical and unemotional, at least not freaked.

Bellevue, I'm not sure I would expose to everyone on her wedding list. Mainly people who have influence over him would be better. If or when the A ends and recovery begins, mass exposure like that can cause unnecessary trouble. Just my .02.

Charlotte,
Don't bother with the OW. She doesn't care about you. You are the enemy. Nothing good comes from talking with her. She will lie and tell truths so that they are painful to you. Don't waste your time.


Don't pay any mind to what he says when he's trying to divert your attention. He is not your H right now, he's not your friend, he is a WS. You have a goal and you are calmly going to attain it. Steady.

Expose

Plan A

Please take this from someone in a very large corporation whose job it is to investigate allegations by or against company employees, including allegations that an employee is involved in an affair. Most employers will take the position that it is none of the employer's business and they will not get involved unless you can tie it directly to the workplace. What does that mean? If the WS and OP work together or for the same employer, you point out that the employer is at extremely high risk for a sexual harassment claim from other employees if it offends them and creates a hostile work environment or from your WS or the OP when one of them ends the A and the other does not want it to end. Regardless of whether the WS and OP work together, another way to get the employer's attention (and if they don't work together, make sure to notify both of their employers) is to point out that the two are using excessive amounts of company time and resources to carry on their A. This will cause the employer to investigate to protect their assets - you have to appeal to their bottom line and that bottom line is $$$$. Just telling them about the A probably won't.

Regards,

BB

BTW - letters are FAR more effective that phone calls unless the employer has a ethics and/or compliance/whistleblower hotline/helpline.

On that note Brit, I'd agree...a letter...in writing. It's documented.

Michelle, of course Charlotte knows best whom to expose to. The wedding list thing was a bit of a joke and an exaggeration, however, in our case there were only 16 guests at the wedding, wouldn't have been so nuclear.

Charlotte, read everything we post, especially when we disagree with each other, because you will get many intelligent points of view. Michelle's post counsels moderation, and she probably is right.

Where you do want tons of exposure is work.

Good luck.

Bellevue, agreed. I had over a hundred at my wedding. And to this day, my own family doesn't know. I am glad that they were not told. Most of them would have wanted me to kick him to the curb. They would not have supported my M had they found out. My step sister told our family when her H cheated and the R's have never been the same.

Just a thought Charlotte to keep in mind.

Well, my H will be home soon. I talked to him twice on the phone today & he sounded normal. I have no idea what he's going to say when he gets here or what I should say. I know I need to avoid any LB's and that is a big goal of mine.

Thanks to all of you for helping and if there's anything else anyone can add to help I'd appreciate it a whooooooole lot!

Thank you,

C.

Well, H won't discuss anything (re: our M, his A, the letter I wrote him) tonight. He says he needs to read the letter over again, etc.

I tried for a while, then I had to walk out & took a short drive. When I came back I apologized for being so pushy about it and said that I understood that he's had a hard day & needs to unwind, etc., but that we can't avoid the elephant in the room forever.

C.

Sounds like your WH is a fence-sitter. I don't think anything you do will work as long as he works w/ OW. I think the best thing to do if he refuses to find another job is to do a nuclear exposure to his family and everyone at work, so the two of them will feel ashamed to work together with all the disapproving eyes looking over them, so hopefully one of them leaves. If they don't leave, kick him out of the house and go to plan B. He'll b!tch and moan for a few months afterwards, but after several months of NC, he'll get over it as long as you are focused on meeting his ENs and avoiding LBs.

Well, I'm trying to work up the courage for more exposure. I won't be able to talk to his boss today because he will be at their location instead of the main location. I will have to shoot for Monday on that one unless I just leave him a voicemail.

Part of me is just so fed up that I feel like packing a bag and leaving him a "Dear John" letter, then going somewhere that he can't find me.

I'm trying to be strong and NOT do this. I know it would shake him up, though. I think I really did surprise him the other night even though I was flip about it in a previous post. I guess maybe he didn't think I had the nerve to confront him? Who knows?