******* Advisor is being largely ignored LC. I sure hope you aren't trying to control how people post or who they post to because that would be an exercise in futility.

BA:

Why should you post your story?

Why shouldn't you?

One: It gives us context to understand where you are coming from. BS, OW, WS, Kid, etc. Many posters come and go. Many who get to post counts in the hundreds? We learn a little bit about them from thier posts. Your posts have been amazing sterile in regards to your personal experiences.

Two: Your one in six billion. WHAT attracted you to this site? Some very LONG-TERM posters around here refuse to even divulge the state they live in or the car they drive, for fear that someone might recognize them. That's reasonable. But I know more about those L-T posters and thier life than probably thier PARENTS. But I couldn't drive into thier driveway in a million years. Thier parents can.

Three: Who cares? We only do if you want to grow with us. The drive-by posters? They come and go. Ask about the russian rocket scientist asking for a date a couple of months ago..... We had alot of fun with that drive-by. But we DO try to respond seriously to serious issues for folks. But this response is tempered by the MB concepts. Anything that falls outside of that? Gets blown up. Rightly so. It would be nice to do it sometimes softly, and that's what you got at first. It has grown to a full-fledged operation to follow-up your posts where ever they might be on MB to insure that you do NOT stray from MB Concepts.

Four: As Ark asked? Is it our role to protect newbie's and not call others names? Perhaps somewhat on the former, and for the latter? Well, that just happens, it shouldn't, but it does.

Five: If you are here to help? Then context is everything around here. I even bumped my Dday thread so that you can read my story. Go ahead. And please read the two linked threads in my post a little later in the thread. Yeah, I get beat up too.

Six: Do you want to help? Welcome to MB. If not? Then.....?

LG

No Big K, I'm most certainly not trying to control how anyone posts, just offering up a friendly suggestion based on things I've seen happen in cyberspace when the trolls start to invade. I've not been here long enough to see it happen here, but was part of a board that became inundated by trolls who came to the aid of the initial troll and a lot of very helpful people got way too frustrated and left.

I know this place has the numbers to afford for people to leave, but I would still hate to see it happen.

LC

MRS W..

the reality is for every marriagebuilder advice posted on this board..people in this situation get I'd say at least 3 people in 'real life" who advise to divorce, drop em, move on, find someone else/new....so a minimal 3 to 1 ratio

when you have someone advising the same here..they are like an annoying little fly....

why and how does two post specific to calling attention to this one poster help any of this...

I honestly don't get it...

no one is going to get a divorce becsause one annonymous poster says to do so...

Fear comes the thought of texas taking over the world..that's fear...

really all I am saying...
is DON"T rely on ANY advice from posters without reading the site...AND
don't call people names....

ARK

EXACTLY.

IMHO the name-calling is in response to the fact that BA refers to him/herself as 'Best Advisor' yet apparenlty has little knowledge or respect for MB principles. And to top it off BA refuses to tell what, if any, personal experience they have with trying to save a marriage from adultery.

The regular posters here are justified in their concern that BA is attempting to give newcomers bad advice BECAUSE of BA's claim to be 'Best Advisor' despite evidence to support that claim.

Ark and other friends.

"MB is uninstinctive "

How many times have each of us said that ?

How often have we said :"your instinct is not your friend here" to a WS who truly believes they have found their soul mate and wants to dump their young family for OP, or to a new BS who thinks that being a doormat will salvage whatever crumbs there are remaining in their marriage ?

Within most of us is a mish-mash of movies, "cosmo"-style advice and fear that builds our instinctive response to infidelity IMO. It says "if you love somebody set them free, doing nothing". It says "I am screwed, its clearly true love my spouse has found".
It says " have a revenge affair, that will teach him !"

All SO SO wrong.

I contend that the "advice" of folks like Best Advisor comes from the same place sans the immediacy of panic felt by a person in the midst of an infidelity crisis.

So BA will advise FAR CLOSER to the instinct of the scared newbie than any of us old farts will. It is SO TEMPTING when people tell us to do what we "FEEL" already is the right thing to do.

Then steps in one of we old farts : We tell them " be dignified, plan A but set boundaries, protect your finances, lock up your taker for a season.." All these thing "feel" like NONSENSE compared to the sugar words offered by BA who shares their unstudied instinctive attitude to infidelity ( as do most womens magazine advice columns BTW <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ).

Arkie, I remember BRUTALLY how sweet the sounds of cowardice and competing infidelity was " back in the day". I have literally physically shaken while being advised opposingly as a new BS.

We HOPE this weird MB stuff might work, but we FEEL that the instinctive "cosmo" stuff might work until we study and learn better.

Add to that the fact that BA boldly calls her/himself " BEST ADVISOR" and trawls the boards for opportunities to insert her/his "words of wisdom" and I think she presents a credible risk to newbies.

God Knows this is hard enough when you get and effect GREAT advice, but when tempted to do the wrong thing by a credible sounding advisor it can only lead to heartbreak.

I looked at BAs advice so far and it is clear there is no study of relationships or affairs there, or at least it is not being used if so. Its all "follow your heart" style local-paper "agony aunt" advice.

PassionPeach was another recently who set themselves up as a great advisor offering not only limp but TEMPTINGLY WRONG advice.

Sure there some ego here, "how DARE this upstart call themselves "best" when some of us have earned our wings blah blah" but thats 1% max IMO. Its a passion for the folks who need us that drives the majority of we MBOFs ( Marriagebuilders old farts!) , you and I included ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God knows our own advice can be feeble and misleading,sometimes, despite our studies and experience, but "even though the fastest horse doesn't always win, its still where you should bet your money". MB is the fastest horse for folks caught in infidelity.

All blessings !

my issue remains the same..

one can convey lots of things without name calling...

in fact.

exactly how does one support the philosophy of this site..and not support the rules...of no name calling..

that is what I don't get...

the justification of the name calling...

ark^^

too scary...can't go there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

"What's wrong with simply rebutting the offending advice, in a logical, concise manner? My guess is that doing so does not offer enough of an outlet for repressed anger. An intelligent person is going to respond to logic and clear words, not to namecalling and ridiculous attacks (porn site)."

It is clearly evident that LadyLayla, Best Advisor, SweetSo Briquet, are some of the visitors we've had here that are not interested in learning about and helping people follow MB principles. Many posters here have already tried to simply rebut the offending advice, in a logical, concise manner. We've also tried to engage such posters as LadyLayla, Best Advisor, and SSB in civil conversations about their personal experiences with adultery, why they're here, what they hope to achieve/learn/offer. They are not interested in responding to that. They don't want to answer any questions. They want to give bad advice, they want to feud, and they want to insult others, or more typically pretend every attempt to communicate with them is an attack or insult against them. Eventually, after some of the regular posters got really sick of that, there has been feuding with name-calling and insults slung.

But the fact still remains, the cause of the problem is that these posters came here to cause trouble, to pose as experts capable and willing to give advice, while obviously opposing MB principles. Their agenda is pretty transparent but it's doubtful they will confess to it. They also seem hesitant to go away, despite their claims to be so offended by the backlash their deceptive tactics has resulted in.

So the only logical conclusion is that what is going on now, IS what they intended, WAS their agenda. They have been given numerous opportunities to answer questions that are appropriate to be asked here. They refuse to answer and/or ignore those questions. They have been given chances to clarify why they are here but they prefer to focus on the posters they have started feuds with instead of responding to the calmer participants.

IMHO they not only deserve the reaction they've gotten, but they planned it, worked consistently towards that goal, and are enjoying it. If they wanted a different response they would have changed the behaviors that started the problem. They haven't and in fact have increased their inapporpriate, offensive, annoying postings. Again, the logical conclusion is that they chose what/how they posted, and are persisting in that manner, BECAUSE it's giving them the pay-off they desired.

IMHO they should have been banned by their IP's long ago, before things got this far.

BTW, although I personally liked the song 'Layla', both the older rock version and the newer softer slower version, I recently learned that it is a song Eric Clapton wrote for his adulteress, the wife of his close friend George Harrison of the Beattles. My reason for asking Layla about her posting name was curiousity (sp?) more along those lines. However, I would not be the least bit surprised if LadyLayla were involved somehow with the porn industry. It would be logical for somebody profitting from porn to view a marriage building site as a threat.

Behind all the feuding, the fact still remains that these posters came here posting in a manner that was not appropriate or cooperative with either the principles or purpose of this message board. SSB, for example claims her marriage has aleady completely recovered from her adultery in spite of the fact that she refuses to give her betrayed husband info he has requested about her adultery. This clearly is in opposition to MB principles. More importantly, since she says her marriage has already recovered, what is her reason for being here?
Apparently she intends to influence other posters that they also can have the sort of marital recovery she espouses... And it should be a no-brainer what the negative affect would be (if not evil intention) of somebody who choose the posting name 'best advisor' while apparently having no real experience or knowledge of the application of MB principles.

I say they get banned by their IP's ASAP, so they can't keep coming back with new names, and we can get back to what we came here for.

MM:

Very valid points throughout your post.

However, this one item:

"More importantly, since she says her marriage has already recovered, what is her reason for being here?"

That BAR would exclude the vast majority of MBOF's (to use BP's term) around here.

Don't you think? Because if that BAR was instituted, then only posters with out first hand experience with recovering thier marriage using, implementing and maintaining MB Concepts would be left.

I recommnd that we just continue to do what we have always done, Meet bad advice with better advice. And maybe the posters with bad advice to give learn better, or leave. Thier choice. Don't make the arguement about the bad poster, make the argument about the good advice.

FWIW.

LG

Well...in my opinion there is worse things than taking advice from a self appointed "best" of anything...

and that is taking advice...or even listening to...a piece of underwear...sheeeeesh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

jmho
committed

Hi Arkie !

I'm not name calling nor defending it, ma'm. I think that name calling removes any credibility from genuine concerns to be honest.

But I do think for the reasons I stated that its not so great having people calling themselves "greatest counsellor ever !" and offering bum advice to the vulnerable.

We just dealt with another name calling issue in our family. But the protagonists were ten and fourteen. Go figure.;)

Hi LousyGolfer:

My point was that since SSB has claimed her marriage has fully recovered, then working on her own marital recovery is apparently not what she is here for. I agree that it's not in itself suspicious or inappropriate for folks with recovered marriages to post here.

But she also makes it clear that she opposes MB principles and advocates a very different definition of marital recovery than Dr. Harley recommends. She admits she has refused to answer her betrayed husband's questions. She won't even tell her BH who the OM is. So how can her BH even know for certain that all contact with the OM has even stopped? How can her BH know that the OM's family has been exposed to?

So given those two factors: She claims her marriage recovery is successful and complete AND she claims that it is possible to do so in a way very counter to what is advised here, then what exactly is she here for?

The other posters here who have recovered marriages aren't here to oppose MB principles or to try to get new posters to ignore MB principles. She openly advocates treating the betrayed spouse in a disrespectful and dishonest manner and then she presents that as a valid example of 'recovery'. The last thing a WS needs to be advised is to keep lying to their betrayed spouse, to keep the OP's identity a secret, that it is possible for their marriage to recover from adultery employing SSB's advice! She also has revealed that in her opinion betrayed spouses pretend to be saints, and THAT is the motive behind BS's recovery requirements.

I for one would most certainly NOT want my WXH having any poster here tell him that marital recovery is possible a la SSB! If she's not here for her own marital recovery then she's her to try to influence other people's marital recoveries. Her intent therefore is to prevent real recoveries with the interference of her unsound advice.

meremortal

I would apprectiate the opportunity to respond here to you speaking for myself only. You have chosen to lump a few people in the same post and conclude we are all of the same thinking.




I have answered your questions, and have given response to anyone who has asked me a direct question in an appropriate manner.



I don't give bad advice. I don't give advice unless I have experienced personally the issue at hand. I don't read all the threads on here, I read what is of interest to me in my situation. No offense to anyone but I close more threads that i read because sometimes I can see they are far to complex and time consuming. I basically filter what I read for anything relevant to me, is what I mean.

I also don't hand out advice as I've mentioned because I don't have the time to become involved to the point I visit over and over to respond. Yesterday's debarcle has taken far too much of my available time this week.

I will defend people who are badly treated and I will continue to do so, if that gets me banned, so be it. It's a personal thing. I do it IRL and I will do it here when I see people making fun of people or abusing them. I do not tolerate ridicule and bullies.





NO ONE deserves to be treated this way! I will ask you the question that goes unanswered here.

Why is verbal abuse tolerated on MB when it would not be tolerated in a marriage or even in general for that matter?

If you revisit the said thread in question and filter out all but what was said by myself to others, see if you come to the same conclusion. It looks like a shamble simply because there is so much going on. *************EDIT******



*cough .. where is the worst offended on your list!! Have another read!



And this ...
***************EDIT**************

FYI ... My cat's name is Layla If I 'd known it was that important to you, I would have said so.

MM ( and all)

"BallInTheRoughAgain" makes a very wise point:


Fact is Dr Bill himself never experienced infidelity, but he's sure as heck used his infidelity AVOIDANCE and RECOVERY experience to advise others. Personal experience isn't necessarily a qualification for good advice.

Lets just be diligent that if clearly bad advice is given by ANYONE those with better should post.

We can of course continue to "out" the dustkitty's and Saries who come along from time to time, but hopefully without name calling.

"exactly how does one support the philosophy of this site"

BEFORE the name-calling, more important than the name-calling, is the fact that these posters came here with the agenda to adise newcomers in a manner clearly in opposition to the philosophy of this site.

SSB clearly does not support the philosphy of this site. She refuses to answer her betrayed husband's questions and won't even tell him who the OM is! AND she refers to that as an example of successful marital recovery. THAT is the issue, that these trolls have come here with the intent to advise people to NOT emply the MB philosophies.

I never have participated in the name-calling and do not defend it. However, the name-calling isn't even the problem, it's just a symptom that the intial problem finally has resulted in. Again, IMHO the offenders should have been banned by their IP's long before it got this bad.

IMHO the pretense of offense over being called names is just that - pretense. They persisted until they got the result they wanted - being treated 'mean'. But let's not forget that they were accusing the regular posters here all along of being 'mean' to them when for the most part they were simply being asked to share their experiences BECAUSE THEY were claiming to be some sort of expert while dishing out bad advice. Again, the false accusations of being 'attacked' came long before the actual verbal attacks. And if they really did mind the name-calling they'd just leave, right? But instead of leaving they suddenly have some new posters as allies... that's a troll sign in itself. They came here sounding like trolls, acting like trolls, ignoring all calm civil attempts to communicate with them, pretending that the same questions everybody gets asked here and have no problem with were an attack on them...they persisted in posting garbage advice while claiming it was the 'best' advice and that they have a successfully recovered marriage in spite of continued lies to their BS... then eventually they were under suspicion and yes, even attack. They are not genuinely offended, if they were they would stop defending the bad advice they posted or they would leave. They wanted all this to descend into name-calling.

And you know what? The name-calling is not in any way the bigger issue here. So what? It kind of reminds me of when my WXH would cheat, and lie, and emotionally abuse me with his adulteries... and then if/when I might sometimes respond to all that in a less than ladylike fashion he would then pretend it was my response to his adultery, and ONLY my response, that was the problem. Of course we should not call names here. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY we should not allow trolls to give bad advice here and hang around long enough to fuel name-calling feuds.

Boot 'em outta here ASAP!

From Steve Harley

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post1278145

MM, you quoted my post from the disappeared thread. I kind of wish you had quoted it in its entirety - now I've forgotten all that I said. The perils of middle age. But since you quoted me, let me address your response.


I knew the story behind the Clapton song. It gets even more interesting after Patti Boyd Harrison and Clapton married. But I do think that it's a huge leap to conclusions to state that someone might be involved in the porn industry on the basis of their username. It really skates on the edge of character defamation to posit such a connection.

My point about namecalling is best illustrated using BA. She starts out giving bad advice. Several posters respond with better advice, and reasons why her advice is not so hot. That's excellent, and it most likely encourages the initial poster to bone up on MB principles. All to the good. Original poster is educated, posters in conflict with BA look reasonable and intelligent.

But what happens when BA is called out in a thread, insulted, belittled, and called names by several posters? It may actually generate sympathy for BA, the underdog, and cause the original poster (and other lurkers) to think, "Hey, these posters that seemed so smart, and gave me such sound advice, well, now they're starting to look a bit juvenile. Maybe their advice isn't so great after all". That's not good.

I don't think that my little scenario is far fetched. It is absolutely possible to disagree with someone respectfully, without namecalling. To say that it isn't, for any reason doesn't hold water, at least with me.

Now maybe it's me, but I find that someone posting on and ADVICE BOARD under the name best advisor makes me laugh, and look at her posts with a jaundiced eye. Just like the old saying that when someone begins a sentence with the word "Truthfully" or "In all honesty", hold onto your wallet and be skeptical.

PK