I'll skip the details of how we got here for now, but I think I messed everything up in the last couple of days. Two nights ago I told my WS taht I could not handle the christmas holidays not knowing weather she was going to stay or leave. I told her how much I loved her, set my bounderies (NC with OM, 100% commitment, no swiging). Then proceeded to give her a dealing of two weeks, and told her that the only contact we would have would be logistical (I also moved to the basement). After that talk, in which she finally really oppened up about what she needed from me, I was reminded that she had tried in the past, but gave up becasue I would always have an angry reaction, and would go on to tell her that the things I do for her should be enough. Yesterday I felt awful, and felt like I had not given her enough time to process (It's only been three weeks), and that by withdrawing from giving her what she was looking for in terms of emotional needs I was hurting both of us. So we agreed that the deadline would be dropped and that I would return to showing her my love. I worry that by doing this, it has caused her ever more confussion and exposed me as weak.

I talked to the Harleys last week and I am waiting for Surviving an affair to arrive.

Any advice?

Then proceeded to give her a DEADLINE of two weeks, and told her that the only contact we would have would be logistical

Sorry about that.

what did the harleys advise...

Read the book be as kind as posible. I think I kind os lost my mind for a couple ofdays and lost my focus. Feel like I'm moving too fast.

Is this your wife?

ItsPouring

Yes, 14years married, together for 20. We met went I was 20 and she was 17.

tomuchtoosoon - while what I am going to say may sound somewhat "harsh," but my intention is for you and your wife to start thinking instead of reacting. Think of like "engage brain before speaking." In other words, there is entirely too much emotion, hurt feelings, distrust, etc. that is coloring both of your reactions.

You have not "earned" the right to be trusted yet.

She has not "earned" the right to be trusted yet.

WORDS are only so good as the action that backs them up and "proves" the truth of the words.

So, do YOU want to be married to ItsPouring regardless of where her "mind" in all of this is today?

If the answer is "no," then begin the process of filing for a divorce.

If the answer is "yes," then no matter what you are feeling (you have to endure those feelings, not deny them), you have to do what is necessary. It is WAY too soon for "feelings of love" to exist, you have both done way too much to drain the "Love Bank" way into the [color:"red"]red[/color] zone and it will action plus time to begin making deposits, earning some interest, and growing the "Love Bank Balance" to a point where it is "self-sustaining."

"Deadlines" have NO place in such a recovery attempt. The "average" recovery timeframe is 2 years, and you both have a terrible history to overcome, so I would not be surprised if your recovery could be on the longer side of that 2 years.

IF you are both going to "try" to recover your marriage, begin by sleeping in the same room. You don't have to make love to each other, but you do need to be WITH each other and not separated with more walls between you.

It isn't easy to walk the recovery road. Are you "up to" the challenge and the required commitment?

Sorry all, I misunderstood Sturnrisings question. I am not married to itspourring.

That being said thank ou for your post ForeverHers because I think it applies to my situation as well. The realization I came to yesterday was that I was being reactionary and not rational. After last night discussion I feel much more confident that I can be up for the chalenge.

Her A started as an EA online about a year and a half ago. I discovered it, lost my mind and she immediately wanted to try to work things out. So we went to counselling were I found out that she had feelings that she missed out on something because we have been together since she was 17 and I was 19. She wanted to know if I would accept a more open marriage or swinging. I was shocked by the suggestion, and told her that there was no way I could do this. So we continued to go to counselling and we got to the bottom of why she was doing this, which was that for years she has been trying to get me to be more affectionate and admiring, and I would respond by getting angry and saying that what I did for the family should be good enough. Over the next couple of month I could tell that she was putting no effort into the marriage, then two months ago she told me that the OM moved in with his sitter in the city next to ours and had called her. Well this got the ball rolling again and the A became physical. She told me all of this about three weeks ago becasue the guilt was killing her. I was completely devestated by this and cried for three days straight. On day three, we had a long talk where I basically begged her to stay. Between my begging and the pressure she felt from her best friend and Mother, she agreed to stay and work it out. Three days later she tells me that she's not sure if she made the right decision and had lost the "spark" between us. The only reason she had agreed the first time was because of guilt and outside pressure. This was very painfull to hear. So I told her at the time that she had to figure out what she wanted to do. A couple of days latter I discovered MB and started reading up and the emotional needs and Plan A which I did enact on couple of days ago. Which brings me to my original post and why I think I messed up. I fear that only see weakness in me now and that I've lost her heart forever.

No. It is very normal to react in the first few days/weeks the way you did. She understands this on some level, especially if she has been married to you for a long time, she knows and understands.

This is a self doubt you are having now. It is the wrong thinking part of your thought processes. It's fear. Pay it no mind.

What if's, how could she ever forget my weak behavior, how coudl she ever love me again, etc.

All obstacles to your plan A. Read the following quote and everytime you feel doubt or fear, remember it.

~Obstacles are those frightful things we see when we take our eyes off of the goal. ~~Henri Ford

Keep your eyes on your goal, and on your plan. Do not let fearful thoughts intercede.

Thanks for oyu wisdom JosieJones. I will take the quote to heart.

I'm very confused by her behavior since our last talk. Especially last night, as we interacted like nothing was wrong. I focused on her EM concentrating on listening without interjecting any solutions and the night went very well. Even to the point where when we went to bed I caressed her hair and cheek while she rubbed my shoulder until we both fell asleep. I just don't know what to make of it.

TMTS,

I make of it that it was a well executed Plan A night. No discussion of what might happen twenty years from now or trying to "teach" her anything, simply meeting her ENs and letting her show affection in her own way toward you without any pressure for anything beyond what was at that moment.

Well done!

More of that...OK?

Mark

Thanks mark... OK? I'll keep that up.

Mark - Your string to ilovedebbie was enlighenting. I too am in a situation where my WW is thinking of leaving because she has "lost the spark". I one of our talks I asked her if she considered the financial ramifications of her actions, and she told me that she has. My concern is that she may be thinking about what she can do to get enough money without hurting the children. I.e. selling the house, cashing in retirement funds, ECT. She says that she is willing to fill out the EM questionnaire, so that a good start, and I mentioned to her about the financial questionnaire on the site as well, and she wasn't completely against it. The one thing that I do believe is that she has told the OM not to contact her again. He had called her to see "how she was doing" and was upfront about telling that he had... when I asked. She also seemed to change attitude a little after telling me with some pain and anger in her voice about what was missing, she had never done that in the past and I think it may have helped. I acknowledged what she was saying as true and that telling her that I would change meant nothing, but that I haven't given up and would show her love in the way she is looking for. I grew up in a home where love was shown by fulfilling the domestic and financial needs, and showing the affection and attentiveness is something that I would need to work on a consistent basis. All I can hope for now is that she can trust that I am being genuine.

Well plan A is over! I've implemented Plan B and my WW is looking for a place to stay.

Please Help!!!

I told her that he kids were staying with me, and that there was to be no contact until she has severed all contact with OM and is 100% commited to working on our marriage. I told her that I loved her and that I always will, and if she decides to return that my door and heart is open. But right now I hold very little hope.

At this point I'm a complete mess!!! I've been crying for the last two hours non stop.

Am I going about this the right way? What else do I need to consider?

I need help please!!!

TMTS,

So what happened between Thursday and today?

Plan A = Meet her needs and avoid LBs (a specific plan of attack on the affair and her empty LB$)

Plan B = Get away from continuing affair and save any love you have left (a specific plan to avoid draining your own LB$ so you can try later when affair is over)

Plan D = I'm all done with this and no longer want the marriage (a specific plan to end the marriage and move on with life)

Recovery = Work on the relationship issues and try to get to the bottom of what happened while continuing Plan A actions while she is do the same for you for a change.

I write that to you because the biggest challenge in Plan A and what causes us the most trouble is unmet expectations. We EXPECT the WS to meet our ENs. We EXPECT the WS to commit to the marriage before they have completed withdrawal from their addiction. We EXPECT the WS to be willing to admit to wrong doing and beg our forgiveness. We EXPECT the WS to no fail to maintain NC and actually stop contacting the affair partner just because we said that's what we want. We EXPECT the WS to be ready to talk openly about the affair and tell us the truth all at once.We EXPECT the WS to say they ar4e really ready to work on the marriage with no caveats or no waffling.

We expect them to say "I know what I want and it's you."

What we get is "I don't know want I want."

So what happened? Is it something that can be weathered and try again? It's only really over when YOU say it is since you can be in Plan A for a while and in Plan B even after a divorce...since neither is fixing the marriage because that happens in recovery not Plan A or Plan B...

So are you going to Plan B or plan I'm tired of not getting anything in return yet? Is it time for Plan B or just time to refocus on the GOAL? Is it that she says she wants him and not you or that you have had enough and no longer want her because you have stopped loving her?

Mark

Tuesday and beyond was going good, but I could sense that she was putting on a show just because she thought she would not to hurt me any more than she already did, by responding positively to showing her more attention and affection. The problem I'm facing is that she knows what she wants; she just didn't want to come strait out and say it. Your last comment pretty many sums it up I'm going to Plan B because she says her heart is no longer in our relationship, and she wants him instead of me. I thought things were going good in Plan A too, no expectations of her meeting any of my needs, just avoiding LBs and working on her EN constantly. After today’s talk I realize that Plan A was not going to help in this case, she was too far gone. I still do love her and hope that Plan B will help her see and appreciate what she did have. But right now I have very little hope.

I'm so messed up right now I don't know what to do next. She's waiting for her freind from two doors down to get home so she can talk to her about staying with her until she finds an appartment. All I think about is how she could do this to her kids, but I'm still too hurt to get angry about that. How can she throw away 20 years without giving me a real chance? I'll never understand this.

TMTS,

Plan B isn't for her. It isn't supposed to change her actions. It isn't supposed to show her anything at all.

Plan B only has any effect on the WS if Plan A has been great and sustained for a while.

What you describe is that she was waffling and you pressed for a decision "Tell me what you want," and she came back with "I don't know..." and you said "then you need to make up your mind" and she said "I'm outta here..."

Sound like the series of events?

Plan A = Meet HER ENs while expecting NOTHING from her at all. At the same time avoid LBs to stop the draining away of the progress from meeting her ENs.

No fixing. No talking about it. No pushing for her to get it together. No expecting anything in return in the way of even acknowledgment that what you're doing is working. No expectations of anything.

Just DO it...(My thanks to Nike...)

Plan B is for when you are done trying to stop the affair and ready to just wait for it to burn out, not for when you need a break or get tired of not getting a commitment.

And just so you know, Plan B is not something you can implement on the fly. It is planned for quite some time and has so many details that are involved that it often takes weeks to come together.

What I'm trying to get at here is what did you think was happening that no longer is? You weren't supposed to be expecting anything from her since you were in Plan A.

Mark

Wow, I think I'm done for now. She did confirm today that she has been in contact with the OM, but yes when I read your post it sounds like I jumped the gun by asking her what the difference was in waiting if her mind was already made up. I had told her that I was still open at her thinking it out for as long as she needed, but at this point I think that she sees the pain in my eyes and knows that she feels nothing in her heart, so why not leave now. I've got to live with this mistake as well.

Any advice on what I can do? She is at her friends talking about moving in until she finds an appartment.