starfish, frankly I am too, and I am even more bewildered by your contribution to it.

This is a good point mel. back did a pretty good job of mucking up her personna all by herself with the few threads that she started on her own.

The multiple threads created (for back) by apparent (good deed doers) attempting to clean up her mess are the ones that seem (to me) to be perpetuating the debate.

It is up to back to save face if she so chooses. She continues to be passive aggressive, abusive to the board, deceitful and taunting. She has begun to give advice to unwary new members. How in the world can she possible 'coach' someone in a Plan A? This is harmful to new members who are attempting to SAVE their marriage.

Mel....since the beginning of this month....on all those locked threads...I have a total of 8 posts. You have 106 posts on those locked threads.

Yet here you are attempting to fan the flames.

Your complaint lies in the fact that the board is not moderated to suit your tastes. So what do you do? You attempt to rouse a riot against board operators at a time when the board is in an uproar over the abusive posts of a nutty OW. Instead of trying to calm the situation, you use it as an opportunity to pursue your own agenda.

To me, that is the height of disrespect and shabby manners to come to someone's board and complain about how it is run. That is like going to someone's home and griping that their housekeeping is not to your personal standards.

So what is your response to current board controversy? To try your level best to fan the flames. That tells me that your intentions are not to help the situation, but to aggravate it for your personal reasons. This is just more distraction on a board that has already been extremely distracted by a very disturbed OW. That is irresponsible, starfish, IMO..

hey, I have an idea! Let's start up a controversial thread and then complain about board controversy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Oh my Gosh,
if the moderating Agenda being alluded to is anything like the Inane PC method that is operating procedure at a MBer off shoot site .........then sign me up to keep this board like it is. (Even if it ain't perfect).

At least here Adults can actually have a discourse about all topics and actually have ALL sides and points of view represented and voiced.
[Even if it does sometimes get overheated and then as equally bogged down at times].

However,
On this off shoot board
any dissension to what the mods consider "right" thinking is mislabeled as DJ's (disrespectful judgments) and is quickly edited and the person warned.

So if that's the way some are trying to turn this board .......please vote , NO Way, hosea!
PC is rampant enough without us surrendering to it.

I agree with BrambleRose:

"The growing problem on the boards is simple.
The need to be RIGHT has become the overarching aim of people from every side of the debate.
It's gotten nasty, abusive, and downright embarrassing.
I realize that you started this thread with the hope that people would step back and examine their own contributions to the problem (and there is enough to go around on all sides), but currently being RIGHT is more important, so a thread like this will only polarize people further and result in more finger pointing."

When my daughtes and I started figure skating we naturally befriended the other skating families at the rink. Well, unbeknownst (sp? looks strange - I edit my posts endlessly trying to fix spelling errors LOL) to us there had been an ongoing feud in the skating club, over an incident that had happened about a DECADE before we arrived there.

So when my daughters and I would talk to one skater's family, on one 'side' of the feud, families AND COACHES on the other side of the feud would assume we were siding with the opposition and vice versa. Wierd things would happen like strange looks, people who had previously been friendly with us suddenly would stop speaking with us... It actually took us a few years to even figure out what was going on! And then we sort of laughed it off and continued to be friendly with everyone.

One day a skater plopped herself down next to my middle daughter and informed her that she was not coming to her birthday party unless this other skater, who was sitting right there at the table too, was uninvited! My daughter stated both girls were invited and welcome AND that she chose her own friends!!!! (The skater who demanded that the other be excluded chose not to come to the party but we continued to behave friendly towards her and she did eventually accept some invitations to do things with us over the years.)

As far as I know that feuding at the sk8ing rinkS still exists after another decade! (eventually realized it actually involved many of the area sk8 rinks)

OK, sorry for the long story, if you're still reading my point is that I'm beginning to wonder if this current feud really has that much to do with Back even?

I know that MY involvement has been strictly a GENUINE concern that Back's presence and behavior is being not merely tolerated but even coddled here for some mysterious reason that defies logic and clearly interferes with and endangers the true purpose of this site.

The excuse for allowing Back to continue with her shenanigans here has been that some feel they can reach her and teach her. But I don't see that happening. Those who have tried to reach her, even those who have been very careful to do so in a way that is above reproach, get responded to by Back in a manner that leaves no doubt that she refuses any helpful feedback.

And then the really wierd wierdness starts... For no apparent LOGICAL, VALID reason back is allowed to bash other posters while Back is treated like some sort of victim.

And if that weren't bad enough when some background info is exposed which finally explains Back's POV, agenda, and previously quite difficult to comprehend posts, STILL the defense of Back and chastisement of her 'enemies' continued.

OK, THAT was the point when I got discouraged and started wondering what was really going on here. I couldn't understand why some of the regular posters were suddenly pretending I and others had done something wrong to Back while they were ignoring the vile things Back was saying to us.

Was there an assumption made that I had 'joined' a 'side' in an ongoing feud I had no previous part in?

So is each poster's contributions now being weighed by each 'side' to try to determine which 'side' everyone is on?

This is a major bummer IMHO and I now wonder if I really knew some of the regular posters as well as I thought I did, and am offended that they may have presumed a negative motive behind my postings.

I am not on any 'side' in any feud.

My purpose in coming here now is to try to help other BS's and WS's who are ready to stop their adultery. BUT while I am here I see no reason to keep quiet while I am falsely accused of 'abusing' another poster. The ONLY thing Back has learned here IMHO is that she will be granted special prveledges to bash others while being treated as if she is some sort of victim.

I can no longer come here on days when I am feeling really depressed because this site no longer provides the STRONG opposition to adultery that I need to see when I feel like all the world thinx adultery is OK. People who want support and tolerance for their adultery don't need to be provided that here IMHO because they aleady have vast quantities of support for adultery in the world at large. The same adultery-condoning triggers I struggle all day long to deal with from coworkers flirting, the songs on the radio on at work (I listen to K-Love in my car and at home), tv shows, movies, the world... offer plenty of support to adulterers already. I used to come here to escape from all that and to get MUCH NEEDED assurance that SOME people agree that adultery is evil and are fighting it.

Back being here serves ZERO positive purpose IMHO.

She has repeatedly admitted she has no intention of changing her adulterous agenda, taking anyone's advice, or even discussing her situation further REGARDLESS of the civility of those who try to converse with her.

And frankly anyone who really read the warnings from the posters at the EN's board about what Back posted there (including how if somebody slept with their future spouse before marriage then the marriage isn't valid) and the laura_lee posts (including her admittance that the man she called her husband was just the man she was after, a married man who she deemed not really married because he and his wife had premarital sex, and his wife was therefore the OW), and still doesn't see the obvious connection, is IMHO either daft or so stubbornly adhered to their 'side' in some feud to admit that Back is laura_lee. I mean even without the same bizarre POV regarding the premarital sex justification that it's not adultery to seduce a married man garbage (oh yea - like that's just a coincidence that two 'different' posters here came up with that specific and insane of a justification for adultery LOL) the similar posting styles alone nailed her IMHO. I mean COME ON FOLKS!!! Back herself must be amazed that she hasn't been permanantly outed by now!

So now what? Are there really some here waiting for me to 'admit' that my 'real' reason for posting what I did to and about Back is that I have joined the 'other side' (um of a feud I am just now realizing might exist)? Or are there some who believe me to be so naive and dumb that I have been unwittingly played by the 'other side'?

What? Just say it already LOL

So who gets to 'win' your feud here?

What extremes will this go to? Just how hard is it to admit that maybe for some 'winning' the feud has become more important than the what this board is here for, and even for what they claim they are concerned about (how posters are treated)?

So one 'side' says don't call names... got it and aree already, tell Back to stop calling names too, offer protection to Back's victims too, and maybe 'your side' will gain some credibility.

And 'another side' says let's protect new posters from posers who come here to cause trouble and defend adultery...
got that too and also agree.

Is there REALLY a dispute in HOW the trolls are dealt with (in which case name-calling FROM trolls would not be logically tolerated either), or THAT the trolls are dealt with at all? Are we doing 'good-cop/bad-cop'? Does anyone REALLY see any chance that Back will ever be reached by the 'good cop' approach? And exactly how many genuine posters here have to be offended directly by Back and/or by being chastised while she is coddled, before it's determined that BACk, one poster, is even worth it? How many posters have to avoid this site on days they may need help because it's more important to make it safe here for Back than for others?

BTW, I AM quite embarrassed that Back apparently caught onto the feuding thing WAY before I did and has deflty exploited the feuding for her own entertainment and agenda.

ahh the cleverness...

Mere, great post. I also find it very odd that the wrath of a few is targeted at the board members instead of the trolls and instigators who attacked them. It is abuse and false allegations of abuse that caused the contention here, not board members who simply defended themselves.

Yet ODDLY, some point to the board members as the problem while the trolls and instigators are portrayed as VICTIMS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> People tend to get little upset when they are abused and when they are accused of being "abusers" for defending themselves or this board.

Starfish, only "106 posts" on those threads? I guess I'm more passionate about my love for this board when I see it being attacked. With the growing number of trolls & dissenters, I'm surprised it only took me 106 posts! How many posts did you have defending innocent newbies AND veteran MBers that were being unfairly attacked?

Apparently, it doesn't serve the purposes of some to blame the real culprit, does it? It seems the agenda, rather, is to shut down beleaguered BOARD MEMBERS instead of the trolls and the instigators, isn't it? And whip up others to help in that pursuit by encouraging them to complain to board owners for not doing it their way.

Toprope wrote:
I believe starfish is a MOD at that board, toprope.

Mrs Wondering I'm wondering the exact same thing.

"May I remind you who started this thread...and the troll thread...and the other thread to chat with Back/Laura_Lee??? Tell me who is fueling this?"

And you know Orchid, I really am struggling to try to find some logical explanation for this because I really do respect you and don't know why you are making the posting decisions that you have made recently. Have you made a false negative assumption about my posts perhaps?

I understand some who post here say they think the solution to possible trolls, and to distracting debates about trolls, is to just ignore them so their messages will float off to the back pages... I can understand and respect that theory. I have no data on whether or not that is the most effective approach but can accept that is a possible solution some may honestly believe in.

HOWEVER, what I don't get is why some folks who say that's how THEY want to handle trolls and troll-related debates don't just do that themselves then?

Why would anyone start threads to complain that the kind of theads they are starting are distracting?

I'm not attacking you Orchid, just honestly trying to understand what the heck is going on here!

I will say that IMHO it's looking like censorship - I don't want to belive that and hope that's not the case.

Dudes, I'm starting to feel as gaslighted and confused as the way my WXH, WAY experienced con artist had me feeling at times. LOL

Oh, and I definitely wanna be grouped with the Mountain Trolls of Alaska - either Matanuska Valley region trolls or a wee bit south of the Arctic Circle by Eielson AFB.

I've been trying to encourage folks to ignore BACK because the more attention she gets whether POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE..the worse she gets...she feels MORE SPECIAL and GRANDIOSE..having POWER over an entire forum..YUCK...

What bothers me is all of the ARGUING here..

That's what it seems like to me...

And I think BACK or negative influences or whatever sooo THRIVE on this...

It's very anxiety-provoking to me...a scary, unsafe place..
that I want to avoid...but I won't...

But I'm at a GOOD PLACE in my life...

What does it do to those who are struggling...

To me, it seems like it would be best to MOVE ON to helping those who need our help and JUST STOP IT...

All of the arguing comes from throwing your fellow board members under the bus, MIMI, when they are being attacked. That tends to cause controversy.

THAT..............and starting controversial threads about KNOWN controversies.

I have not thrown anyone under the bus, Mel.

I have encouraged IGNORING Back as a means of getting rid of her.

IGNORING is a means of handling negative influences..just like PLAN B, remember?

Just like we deal with WSes?

To me, that's practicing what we preach.

Just like I didn't engage with my wayward husband when he tried to instigate fights with me...

Trying to rationalize with BACK brings her PLEASURE.

And I do have expertise in this.

Yes, you have. You sided with those who were attacking board members as "abusers" for defending themselves or even responding to back.

I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT YOU DID THAT.

Mimi...I hear*********EDIT**************
LA

This is very sad.

This is really a feud.

I don't think in terms of choosing sides.

I can only speak for ME..PERSONALLY.

I've NEVER called anyone an ABUSER.

I've reached out repeatedly to MEREMORTAL and she seems to have IGNORED..ME...

MY POSITION is that it is USELESS to try to RATIONALIZE or CONVINCE BACK of anything.

Now, I feel like I'm being STEREOTYPED or CLASSIFIED into some sort of GROUP.

I AM ME..

No one has to AGREE with me.

I don't have to be RIGHT.

But I will state how I feel and give my opinion.

What you are saying that you won't forget hasn't happened in my opinion..but how you see it is how it is for you...

That makes me SAD, Mel..that there is so much ANGER here...

It seems like ANGRY OUTBURSTS to me...

I don't argue and won't...

That's what happens when folks choose sides....

You know, like the NORTH vs. THE SOUTH...like in a CIVIL WAR...

YUCK...

LA..the ***EDIT****from!

Wow. I've read a lot on this board - but my jaw dropped when I read this. ML - I am so sorry to see the change in you on this board. Very depressing.

Mimi - I hope you continue to speak for yourself and your positions regardless of whom may be on the other side.

I couldn't understand why some of the regular posters were suddenly pretending I and others had done something wrong to Back while they were ignoring the vile things Back was saying to us.

if I really thought that someone was so very very detremental to the board... (and I have no idea cause I haven't read a word of backs....)


I'd contact the moderators...
and let them decide..
and then I'd have to decide what I thought about their decision whatever it was....

why don't you all take your concerns to the moderators??

doesn't that make the most sense....logically

and if they decide since it's their board that it warrants banning or whatever.....then so be it...

and not posting addressing or jumping on this or that band wagon doesn't make one a supporter of this or that....it could mean they don't even know whats going on in a post...

I agree with BrambleRose also

"The growing problem on the boards is simple.
The need to be RIGHT has become the overarching aim of people from every side of the debate.

and the sad thing is that it's now turned on to Orchid whose TRACK RECORD is pretty clear and free of instigating anything...

but now this post...this one post....lables her as the great questionable fueler...

how can that be...
it's like this place has lost it's logic...

post after post after post....of orchids calm and gentle input...

and she's always used this board to sound her musings off of on late at night from the islands.....

this is not different or new for her...
but cause it touches such a sore spot she's doing and causing things....

and now she's a fueler...
wow....

take the issues to the moderators..

they decide..

you decide if you can live with their decision on their board...

ARK

As usual, you heard wrong. But helping others throw your fellow board members under the bus for defending themselves *IS* taking sides.

"LA..********EDIT*********from!"

LA can speak for herself.

But this is nothing but adversarial.

LA is a woman that I have never even met.

But out of the kindness of her heart she volunteered her time for ME and the insight and support that she has given me has literally changed my life.

IMO, she is one of GOD'S ANGELS...

And it's "mean" to call her a name like that.