It has been over one and a half years since I found out about W's EA and although we have stayed together for that period it has hardly been a smooth journey. We have been to MC but the main problem still exists.. the lack of warmth/affection etc in the relationship. I talked about this with my W the other day only to be told she was aware of the problem but she was certain she could offer me no more and that was my lot so to speak.To top that she also said that sex was a duty.WOW!!! Then she moved on to ask if I would not be happier with her like this than being on my own!!!!I am 39 with 2 kids.. 7 and 5. I think I have finally made up my mind that I can not continue like this.. Is it unreasonable for me to ask her to stay with her mother till she decides whether she wants to make a go of the marriage? On top of this I found out that she is still checking out the OM on facebook.. to which she tells me I can not interfere in her life!!!! However, I do believe there has been no contact since discovery. If anyone has any ideas I would be happy to hear them.

Hi Gooner,

I am normally a big proponent of trying to rebuild a M... but I don't think that it should be 'at all costs', and I especially don't advise rebuilding if the WS is un-repentent.

It sounds like you need to set some boundaries in your M and then start enforcing them. Your W is being very disrespectful to you and your kids.

Have you asked your W if she is willing to go to MC with you?

Semper Fi,

RIF

gooner - you don't know me yet, so for now please try to take this as fact....I and the other Betrayed Spouses on MB fully understand what you are feeling.

Having said that, please also understand that what you have been hearing from your wife is TYPICAL "Wayward Spouse Speak," also known around here as "Fogspeak."

With respect to the above quotation from your post, there is truth in what was said, but that truth is being twisted by your wife, which is also typical of someone engaged in an affair.

Sex within a marriage is a "duty" that comes with being married. Obviously it is one "duty" that is usually entered into with desire moreso than a "duty" such as "taking out the garbage" would also be a "duty."

But it (your wife's statement regarding "duty") is also something that you can use in responding to her "on her level" for right now. FIDELITY in marriage is also a "duty," and you can "agree" with her and when she says, "she was certain she could offer me no more and that was my lot so to speak," you can accept that philosophy and tell her that "your lot" is also to have no other person "involved" with your wife on any emotional or physical level. "Forsaking all others" IS your "lot" in marriage, agreed to and vowed to by YOU before God, family, and friends. That is also HER "lot" so to speak," and the minimum that she can do because that is what SHE agreed to and vowed to before God, family, and friends. She may not "like it," but it IS her "duty."

gooner, you are just now beginning to post here. Many of us have been where you currently are. I want you to know, even though you may not be able to "see" it yet, that there is hope for your marriage and there ARE things that you can do even while she is "lost in her fog of adultery."

Keep posting. Keep reading all you can on this site about all the concepts, about "Plan A," about Emotional Needs, etc.

For now, if all you can "commit to" is to enduring the present situation, then do THAT. Trust that you have found a place where "theory" has been met with "reality" and that people here can talk with you about your situation, and do so having "gone through a similar fire" and have EXPERIENCE, not just theory, on their side and behind their suggestions and advice.

God bless.

Hi Gooner ( Arsenal fan by any chance ?)

RIF is right as usual.

My experience leads me to believe that your WWs contact of OM is rather more than just checking out facebook. Every contact resets the "NC" or withdrawal clock back to zero. No wonder your WW is stil behaving as a woman in an affair would.

What I would propose is a very short, timed EXCELLENT plan A with personal boundaries firmly stated and policed.

Then if after a pre-agreed time ( say 1-3 months) your WW is not respecting all of your personal boundaries you should prepare and execute a very dark plan B.

Have you thought about what your personal boundaries are ?
Mine were ( and remain):

* verifiable no contact for ever
* Transparency in activity
* investment in marriage

When you have worked out your boundaries, let your wife know about them with the following kind of words :

" I love you very much, and I have hopes and desires that we will have a great marriage together. However, I do not see how my tolerating hurtful things is going to help achieve that.

I love you but will not chain you to this marriage. If you are not willing or are unable to behave transparently, remain in no contact and * whatever your boundaries are* , I will have to protect myself from hurt. I have been hurt enough.

I love you enough to try, but I won't remain in a hurtful situation indefinitely, baby".

Kind of thing.

Of course, that only works if you are willing to leave her rather than suck up her indifference <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Then if she does not start trying to protect you from hurt, you should invoke a plan B.

What do you think ?

Thanks everyone for the replies..RIF we have been to MC but sporadically.. there she reiterated that there was NC and had been NC since me finding out way back in March 2006. I have to believe her when she says there is NC as there have not been the signs that there were before and I phoned OMW etc.. the OM lives in another city so it was not easy for them to meet.. so as I say I think there is NC.. but she is still so distant and has never tried to make me feel better about the A.I think that is why I resent her sometimes..So in answer to Bob Pure can she still be in the fog after 2 years.. the MC said it only took about 6 months to get over love..Another recent development was she wanted me to move out so she could have some time to think.. the reason was this " I will only appreciate what I have when it is gone"!!! I said I would not move out but if she wanted to she could go stay with her mother.. her reply wass women dont move out.. men do!!!! Why is she doing this to me?? Anyway we finally agreed to give it more time and she will see her psychiatrist on Tuesday...Another line she uses is that if people asked why we were divorcing she would not be able to give a good reason...I appreciate all these statements suggest A is ongoing but this has been totally refuted by her... however she knows that here if a woman commits adultery custody of the children automatically goes to the WS.. this might be a reason.. anyway sorry for my disjointed statements but any advice is really welcome.. I feel she is really messing up my mind big style and I have not deserved this..

Gooner

I bet a pound to a pinch of manure she is still in contact. Even the most addicted WS' feelings dissipate with NC in my experience. Your MC was right, but feeling sonly dissipate with NC.

My Squid was obsessed with OM, yet even she de-fogged hugely after a couple of months NC.

Your WW needs to wok to convince you that she's in NC if she wants your continued investment in your marriage.

Its a simple as that, mate.

thanks Bob.. this is my gut feeling too but there really is no proof and without that I can do nothing.. I do not want to contact OMW again with no proof as I had last time.. maybe my W is just fed up with the M and wants a new life.. as I said why would she tell the psychiatrist there was NC in a private session when trying to recover.. anyway I think she is really confused..

You mentioned that your W isn't meeting your needs for affection and sex. You didn't say anything in your original post about what your wife's main emotional needs (ENs) are, and whether you had, and have been doing a good job of meeting them. If you haven't been, her feelings are natural.

If you have been meeting her needs, then also make sure you give her some hope for a brighter future. Like BobP said, do you convey that you hope for a great marriage with her?

BTW, why is your W seeing a psychiatrist?

- WG

Hi WG, thanks for the input. In reply to the EN I guess my W is fed up of hearing about the A. that is one point that I have not been able to let go of and unfortunately the subject keeps coming up. Again the reason for me bringing it up is that she seems unable to show warmth in the relationship. It could very well be a typical vicious circle. Regarding her going to the Psychiatrist.. I have told her I want to spend the rest of our life together etc.. but she just says she can not change.. she has tried for two years according to her and now she believes she will be like this permanently.. so she wants to see if her Psych. can unlock any doors.... unfortunately I have a bad feeling about the M and think it is only a matter of time before she wants a separation.. anyway thanks for your interest..

Oh bye the way Bob-Pure yep a huge Arsenal fan...at least some things are looking up!!!!! You??

Sort of OT - My H is English living in US. He's a huge Arsenal fan...

I'm an eggchaser , Gooner ! Don't understand footie, though I've tried ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi gooner,

A couple red flags. Usually, the withdrawal period is not this long after no contact is ended (unless depression is a problem). If your wife isn't particularly computer savvy, you might try keystroke logging software to make sure that she's not in contact with the OM. If she is---then I'd suggest that you do a short stint of plan A, followed by a Plan B.

I'm going to break a typical stereotype here---most WS's are not repentant when recovery starts. It's not a prerequisite for this phase---in fact, Dr. Bill says by all means do not expect anything except sullenness and resentment. Because that's what recovering addicts do. One path to accelerate recovery is to go off on a vacation (just the two of you)---it sets up a situation where you're forced to meet each other's needs.

If you've been trying for a while to rebuild love in your marriage and you haven't been successful, try giving the Harley's a call. Steve or Jenn would coach you on your marital behavior. Then, they'd ask to talk with your wife to gather feedback for you. Before you know it, she'll get sucked into the coaching as well---and you'll get a better assessment of where your marriage stands, as well as providing an opportunity to make it better.

update as of yesterday.. W was not expecting me back as early as I came and she was with the kids in our local shopping centre.. I sensed something was wrong(6th sense) walked up slowly and lo and behold she was laughing on the phone.. when she saw me she stopped laughing damn quick I can tell you.. immediately started erasing numbers etc and started shaking.. she knew she had been busted...anyway she still refutes she is in contact with the other guy but says she is in contact with mutual friend as she wonders how OM is doing.. how thoughtful of her.. anyway to cut a long story short I made her leave our home ( the kids stay with me) and I have told her I want a divorce as she has plainly been lying to me for the last two years and after this incident I dont think I can ever trust her again.

I think you made a wise move on having her leave. I would go as dark on her as possible. Hire a bull dog attorney and protect your finances and custody situation.

IF she decides she wants back into your life, you get to decide under what terms she is to come home. I would insist on a polygraph exam for starters.

For right now, focus on your children and don't worry about the stuff she owns.

Gooner,

In a sense, you shouldn't (ever) blindly trust your spouse. And you clearly have known that this isn't right, so your ability to recognize an active affair is pretty good (and you wife is a lousy liar).

So, you have a couple choices---divorce proceedings, or Plan B. You can actually combine the two if you're in a hurry, and you may be suggested by a lawyer to do so with regards to the custody of the kids.

So, do you still want the marriage, or are you done?

thanks for the advice.. another update.. she wants her "freedom" with no questions asked and then she says maybe it will make us stronger.. I said that she is married with 2 children and "freedom" like she wants only exists outside of wedlock. I can not put myself through months of wondering who she is with or not with so I think the time has come to get a good lawyer. Has anyone got any advice regarding whether I should give the separation a chance or how they have played a similar situation.. thanks

Gooner,

Gut level feeling is that you file with your lawyer. I am sure it takes months for a divorce to go through and it could be stopped if the situation changes. You are hearing fog speak right now, but it is two years worth of fog speak.

Given the custody situation, getting phone records, checking the computer and yes even your internet provider can often provide information that you need. Further, often files are NOT deleted from computers although the user thinks so, so consider getting an expert to check on your computer as well.

Frankly, this sounds a bit like a midlife crisis, and if she tries to continue the affair with OM, the fact that OM is married and might now want to lose everything may in fact shed some harsh light on this affair and your W's actions.

She may really need to see what she has lost to appreciate it, but what she has not factored is that you may well emotionally move on. And what you may not appreciate is that there is life after divorce.

Given the custody situation seek legal counseling and look deeply into your heart. I would suggest moving on, but be prepared for a change of heart on the part of your W. If it doesn't come you will know you have give it every chance.

Just thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

thanks JL.. there is only one thing that puzzles me.. when I first found out about A she immediately confessed.. now she is just as adamant that there is and has never been contact since that day nearly two years ago..regarding phone records she has always had a pay as you go phone.. no chance there and she uses the work computer during day.. I did drop in on unexpectedly and checked history etc.. and it was clean as was her works mailbox which I dont have the password to... anyway I think you are right about legal counselling.. deep down I feel I do not deserve to come out of this mess badly.. it is one thing to lose one's wife but I am determined not to lose the kids... Re midlife crisis you are not the first person to mention it.. could this really be the trouble.. deep down I hope it is this rather than AA.

wife came back for two days over the new year and left again yesterday.. I told her she could no longer do this and that I was giving her until June 1st to sort herself out. Her birthday is on 7th Jan.. what should I do.. of course I still love her and want her back.. what type of approach should I take??? My eldest asked where mummy was and I had to explain that she wasnt going to stay at home for some time but would visit everyday.. he then started crying and saying we are not a family anymore.. this really broke my heart.. Should I leave the home when she comes round to see the kids or should I play it more friendly.. Still confused re W!!!!