I kinda like the God help you.

I would pitch the basket. It may be poisioned or tainted in some way.

Also Angelia, I'm a hard-liner when it comes to separated .vs divorced. There is no almost divorced.

If you think about it, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of BS on this site who are "separated" that are deperately trying to recover their marriages. Where in foggy contrast, their WS's are touting the "pending divorce" is simply a formality and the marriage has been dead for years. Typical theme which I'm sure you're aware of, being a veteran and all.

A great percentage of those stories did indeed recover their marriages with the Harley's principles.

Certainly something to think about, Angelia.

Jo

Wow,

I decide to lurk here for a while to catch up on who's around and Look who I find.

I haven't heard from you in over a year and a half. Sorry about what you're going through right now. I have an opinion about your situation if you are interested in hearing about it.

Take care and blessing to you.

S&C

S&C....Hi! Yes, I am interested in hearing your opinion. It's been a long several years. My Christian group of wives married to sex addicts was so helpful to me in my time of grief over the losses in my life.

But, you know what is more amazing....is that all the while I was going through this, God was there....and when I finally moved out, divorced my husband and began to live my life, I realized how much healing God had done in my own life.

One thing I have learned is that it truly takes two to make a marriage work. Harley's principles work as long as both are willing. Not all parties are willing. Some parties live in denial.. Someone might be married to a 'taker' or an addict.

It's hard on the boards to post because it's only one perspective. It's all about recovery and sometimes recovery doesn't work. God gives us free will and that always goes for our spouses too.... they have the free will to walk away, not work on the marriage, be abusive, etc... and the glimpses people see on the board are only one sided.

I am sorry to ramble.... please reply.

Angelia

Angelia, I don't think it's just one perspective on the After Divorce or the Divorcing boards. Some of us chose divorce, some of us had divorce foisted upon us. Some of us are happily divorced and some are still smarting.

Besides, you've gotten different opinions about what to do with the gift.

What are you going to do with it, btw?

More importantly, what are you going to do in general with the ex-wife? If her disorder manifests itself regularly, you'll need a coping strategy.

Well, I'm still not sure what to do with the gift basket.
Silly as it seems, I'm not sure I dislike anyone enough to pass on the 'bad will'. ya know?

It's interesting to me the dynamics of people and how to maneuver life. You asked me how I am going to handle the ex-wife in general....good question. I pray for her daily. They have a son and I know that she will always be in our lives. She is not evil, sometimes it is her disorder and sometimes I think she is just the 'thorn' the enemy uses.

My coping mechanisms have often resulted in more trouble for me, and it's very appropriate that you should ask that question. Thanks, I needed a sound voice right now to keep me accountable in my own life.

Angelia

My thought is that if you give away the gift, it becomes "good will" not bad.

Just make sure your coping mechanism isn't avoidance, but dealing with the issues. It makes a huge difference when coparenting.

fishgirl... are you sure that your "fiance" is not somehow doing things that give her false hope? The reason I ask is that some of the things you have told us sound more like the ex-wife is reacting to things/contact from her ex-husband.

Also, you said she "has done everything in her power to destroy me personally and our relationship" since you started dating. If you can elaborate, it may be help in our responses to you. (p.s. My ex-husband was diagnosed with bipolar.)

Angelia,

Have you ever contemplated that your boyfriend's ex-wife at one time could have been a BW on these boards (pre-divorce)? And during that very time he was headed to divorce, but she was trying to save the marriage ... albeit they were separated but he was dating (you)?


Jo

My husbands ex-wife gives me something every year for Christmas...we've been married 4 years this year..and every year there is a card attached.."thank you for being such a great step-mom to my kids and for being there for me during these rough times" (rebellious teenage years of her daughter)

I've recommended a few books for her to read, and suggested she get herself into counseling...

I agree with Resilient...there is something about the way this started (and the way it has continued) which makes me question whether fishgirl has been told the full truth from her boyfriend about his relationship with his ex-wife from the time he started dating fishgirl (and recently).

(I'm giving fishgirl the benefit of the doubt and assuming that she has been told-and believes-there was no cake-eating of any type by this guy.)

Resilient, I don't believe this is the case....But, this is the 2nd time you've asked this almost same question.....

I know that seperated is not divorced. I lived that. However, I also know that in my case, my marriage was over years before I let go. I know that the final piece of paperwork was a mere technicality because the emotions were gone on both parts.
I was dating while I was seperated. I know I committed adultery. I know the intricate details of my life and I know that I tried and tried and tried and finally, it was time to let go emotionally and legally. While I was waiting on the court system to do its thing, I dated.
I am not in a position to judge anyone else.
So, when you ask about my boyfriend, I believe others could be in the same circumstance. I believe there are good men in the world who try and try and try and finaly let go. Is he perfect? No. Could he have waited to date me, sure. No doubt. Does that make him evil, no. Not in my book.
His ex-wife told me herself on one of her trips to my apartment that she wanted a divorce from him for years and she was finaly getting what she wanted. Maybe that was said in anger, but often we say the truth when we are angry.
When NeverThe Same says that she gets a gift basket every year, I think that is awesome. That is how I imagined it would be some day. I know some older folks who actually share their holidays all together, even though they are divorced. People can move on and still not harbor ill feelings.

Just my thoughts

Angelia,

Given you wrote the above quote, I think exploring the idea your boyfriend’s ex-wife views you as the OW (as you were dating her legal husband before they were divorced) is something worth your energy and time.

She certainly could be bi-polar. But I have to tell you I can’t count how many times that has been claimed by an active WS regarding their “psycho” BS, both here on MB and in real life.

If one is legally divorced, then you never need to second guess it or wonder. You then KNOW you’re not interloping on someone else’s marriage.

God Bless Angelia.
Jo

She certainly could be bi-polar. But I have to tell you I can’t count how many times that has been claimed by an active WS regarding their “psycho” BS, both here on MB and in real life.

If one is legally divorced, then you never need to second guess it or wonder. You then KNOW you’re not interloping on someone else’s marriage.

God Bless Angelia.
Jo [/quote]

In her mind, I am many things. I've heard many of her statements towards me. I saw some of her medical reports as part of the divorce proceedings and she has been declared by medical personnel as being bi-polar and suffering from psychotic episodes. I was not being malicious when I wrote that. I've spent hours and hours on line trying to understand this disease. And, yes, I realize she will be in my life if our relationship works out for many years to come.

Jo, you are correct. If he had been legally divorced I would certainly know I wasn't interloping. I know what you are saying is true. In your hard liner terms, I am the OW because they could have possibly reconciled if I hadn't been dating him. Does that mean I am not welcome on the MB boards?

Aloha Angelia,

First off, assuming you still have it; if it were my gift basket, I'd just walk it out to the curb and drop it in the trash can.

Second, I'm in agreement with Jo; there is no "almost divorced". Yes I know people try and try to save the M and get tired. But as far as I think God is concerned, as long as the "agreement" exists, there's still a chance for reconciliation. I've seen it happen more than a few times. Heck, remember Lupolady? She remarried her WH three years after her D. Plus it seems to complicate matters down the road.

There maybe some insight from the person that mentioned that the ex-W could see you as the OW. In which case, all she sees is someone that stole her H way from her. You said that you believe that all emotion was gone on both parts. If this were the case, then I doubt there would be any or at least very minimal contact from her. She's obviously PO'ed about something and is taking aim at you or your relationship.

However, the past is the past; and today is what it is; and you can only move forward from where you are. Are you no longer welcome at MB? There will be some that will say you are not. Whether or not you remain will really depend on you.

However, truth be told you aren't married to him now and many things can happen between now and then. You still have a lot to find out about each other and a ceremony to have performed before you have a M to save. You may decide that the "ex" is just too much to handle and not marry him. Or the two of you, "assuming" you and he choose to go to Pre-Marital counseling, find out something about the other that is unacceptable (like porn, criminal record, controller etc.) and choose not to marry. I doubt that I'd rush into anything just yet.

Generally when you ignore bothersome people, they tend to go away. But if you and BF are reacting to her when she does this, then maybe she does it for his attention. Is BF contacting her when she does stuff like this? If so, maybe he should should be NC'ing her. Bi-Polar people can be very difficult.

Regardless of that situation, how is your relationship with God? And what do you think God's thoughts are on your current situation and how you got there? That's really more important than what I think. I'd be more interested in hearing about that than anything else.

I'm going to sign off for now. I was going to e-mail you but couldn't find your addy. I thought I had it at one time, guess I was wrong. If yo want to e-mail me mine is [email]sandc_mb@hotmail.com.[/email] I can't believe you and I have been around here on MB for over 5 years.

Still praying for you. Have a blessed day.

S&C

S&C...Thank you. I wanted to answer you honestly so I gave it a couple of days before responding. When I was still living in my ex-H's house (our house), I lived in another room for almost 9 months and while doing so, went to counseling, leaned on the Lord a lot, prayed, fasted and learned a lot about myself. I know it' gonna sound weird, but I began healing even in the midst of that trial. God gave me tremendous peace and He began a work in me. When I finally left and filed the paperwork, it was such a relief not to be in that environment. One of the things I did while still living there was write in a journal all the things I wanted in a Godly husband. No porn, sexually pure, not abusive, not a drinker, nor drug user, I wanted a husband who put God first. I was really specific with the Lord.
When I met this man, one of the first things that hit me was that he had a desire for God. Was he a sinner, yes, we all are..... We all sin. We had an intimate relationship and then we discussed being committed to the Lord in abstinance. I won't lie to you, we have fallen, but in Christ, we get back up and move forward.
My relationship with God is good. I know God is probably not pleased that we live together. It did seem like such a financial relief to share bills with someone but in the end, I know that God would desire for us to be married under the same roof. Please don't beat me up over this one because I already feel convicted in this area. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
He is a good man at heart. He is compassionate, our church feeds the homeless once a month and he loves that. He is very active in the mens ministry and has really become closer to the Lord.
My problem is fear of marriage. I made a mistake twice before and didn't choose so wisely in men. I felt so in love with those two men that it 'seemed' like the right thing but when I look back, there was no substance. With this boyfriend, there is substance, but not a real emotional high. I think I have to rewire some of my thinking about love and relationships because my thoughts tell me that you need substance for a long term successful relationship...not the emotional butterflies all the time. Does that make sense.
Anyway, we are moving day to day in this relationship. We ar maneuvering the ex-wife, we are learning more about each other, we are friends in such a good way. I really enjoy his company and his friendship. We both enjoy our bible studies, we enjoy our prayers, we enjoy life so far.
I am glad that God forgives and helps us through our past to a new future. I always knew that what the devil meant to harm me, God would turn around and use for my good. I have been able to support and talk to other women whose husbands were involved with porn and prostitutes. I know that God won't beat the spouse over the head and make them do anything. But, I know that God is full of grace and mercy and He has certainly brought me a long way! He holds on to me daily!!!!
That's it for now.

Aloha Angelia,

No, healing from God never sounds weird. I remember having total peace at one time right in the middle of my ordeal. Never could explain it except for the power of God.

I remember writing my journal too. Looking back, that life seems so far removed from today.

You did what I tell all the youth at our church to do regarding their future spouses. Make a list and pray for a godly person that fits the bill.

I’m glad you are striving to remain faithful to God and pure. Christianity is messy at times. Just ask Paul in Romans chapter 7. We just need to make sure we don’t justify our sins because we sin.

I’m not going to beat you up, you know what’s right. The guy seems like a good man. But I’ll just remind you of something you already know. Being out of God’s will has the ability to nullify the good stuff.


Makes a lot of sense. If you can choose to love even when the feeling of love isn’t strong, it’s the right kind of love.

It really feels good knowing your experience can help others. I tell others that God will turn our greatest trials into our greatest weapons for his glory.

I gotta go and finish prepping for work.

Blessings to you.

S&C

Just my honest opinion on the whole dating before divorce subject.

I. I wonder why we give so much credence to the legalistic paperwork of today's society?

My feeling is that my XW violated the terms of our covenant with the Lord. Based on my inability to fully deal with this situation, through my limitations as a human, with love and forgiveness, I decided to divorce. This was a development of at least 4 years.... When I left, I had given all I had to try and reconcile and left, not as a threat, but knowing there would NEVER be a reconciliation. This was the hardest thing I ever did in my life and was made after much prayer and thought.

Therefore, my feeling is I was divorced when I left the house.

And yes, I did start dating a woman during my separation period.

Although I understand not everyone's situation was the same as mine, my general feeling is that you should NEVER leave the marriage and file for divorce in hopes of return. Obviously, separating without filing for divorce is a totally separate situation.

Tried Hard: I think I truly understand how you feel. My ex-husband and I seperated twice (I left due to his use of porn, several affairs and prostitutes), and the first two times I seperated I left with the intention of God restoring the marriage and in those times I did not date. I had men who asked me out, but I did not accept. That was not my intent to move on. My intent was to work on myself, give him some time to decide which life he wanted and to remove myself and my daughter from the life he was living. the first time we separated my husband went to a counselor, started SA classes. That was brief...It was not but a short year later and we were back separated. This time, he moved in with another woman. Then he had a heart attack. When he had his heart attack, he wanted to come back to me. Said God spoke to him. He started attending church with me, went to a counselor a couple of times...and yet again, it was just shy of a year when he began to see other women again, spend hours on the internet and became very abusive. The final time I left was after I moved out of our bedroom as a couple and began to live in the guest room. He kept up is lifestyle, coming home whenever he felt, staying on the internet (did so in front of my daughter a couple of times) and when I finally left it was after months where I saved money, worked out some details and allowed God to work on me. I moved out while he was on a trip out of town seeing one of his women. I had a couple of friends and we moved everything I was going to take in a little under 2 hours. I knew when I left that there was no reconciliation. Twice he had chosen his lifestyle and refused to do anything about it except for 'show'. He was an addict and I was unable to reach him. I moved out and filed for divorce almost immediately.
Like I said, I believed my marriage was over when I moved into the guest room. It was a matter of legalities for me even at that point.
I didn't feel that I was out of God's will when I began to date.
I am not trying to justify my position at all. It's just how it was for me.
I am not in a position to judge anyone else.

I pray your future relationships will be all that God has planned for you. God says he has a plan for us...to prosper and do good for us.

Angelia

reading this thread has been very interesting. i began my relationship with my husband while he was separated from his wife back 15 years ago. they had maintained separate homes for several years prior to us meeting and beginning our relationship. at the time he was in the midst of a nervous breakdown. i was trying to help him. i was very charmed by him. wanted to *fix* everything for him and make his life better.

i was told his ex was add and he had been miserable the entire time of his marriage. they have 3 adult kids. he claimed he took her to therapists, doctors, counseling. anything he could do to make his marriage work.

fast forward to today: we are having problems because i am the cause of all our issues. what i have come to learn after these years is that perhaps it was not all the ex's fault. my husband will never take any blame. he is usually the victim of somebody: the ex, the boss, the kids,
and now me.


history does have a way of repeating itself. i am hoping to work to better our marriage. we are currently in counseling but i am seeing writing on the wall. i am an introvert. he is also, but not as much as me. he is now working with the counselor to understand me. he does not have any problems.

it is scary but this sounds like a repeat of his first marriage. he has found my *problem*

my 2 cents re: the basket. i like the simple thank you. since children are involved and you know you will have ongoing interaction with her do it for their sake. take the high road so someday they may see that you tried your best to give their birth mom a place in all your lives as someone who is important and deserves respect.

best of luck