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[color:"blue"] I've decided to address the last few comments from Maggie's thread on a new thread, this one. For all I know it may get locked but I am starting this thread to answer the concerns and sometimes silly assumptions that have been made. To those whose posts I have copied and pasted here, it is your choice to respond or not. I am posting it merely to respond separate from Maggie's post since the subject has diverted away from Maggie. My responses will be in blue[/color] From BA109: Orchid: I asked you to stop. No you didn't. You gave very specific instructions as to how MM should post. 1) post something else 2) Reply and show what is wrong with a post 3) don't just make an accusation 4) be a bit more understanding in your posts [color:"blue"] Orchid's reply: Seriously, BA109, I said please....it was in a sentence form, not a list. It was a request without a question mark. You have been around since 2002, haven't you posted suggestions before? [/color] From Marshmallow: Orchid, First you said this... Maggie,
Can you please post something else? Reply and show what is wrong with a post, don't just make an accusation especially to someone who is new to MB. They have no real clue about what you mean by a troll.
Please be a bit more understanding in your posts.
L. " And then this... It takes time to realize how to heal and help. How to handle someone whose style or post we don't like can be a bit more complex and of course responding in anger often has it's drawbacks. Basically my post to your was to help you stay out of harms way. So which was it? Were you concerned about how someone new might read her post, or were you concerned for her safety? What harms way did you see her in? Who were you trying to protect her from? ~ Marsh [color:"blue"] Orchid's reply: Marsh, please read my posts in its entirety again... you will find that I realized Maggie is a newer poster, I felt if she was able to refocus on how to help instead of blunt accusations, it would serve of greater benefit for herself and those she was posting to. 2nd getting her out of harms way was meant to help her stay out of the war on words that seems to start up anytime the 'troll' accusation is posted. Marsh, you have been here since 2006, you have even helped many..... why is this bothering you? [/color] Another 2 posts from Marshmallow: BA, you were edited by Justuss. Consider that a good thing because no matter what you post, you will be considered by some t/b bad. I have seen some following him/her around and making accusations without just cause. That to me is not right. Do you think Justuss editted BA, w/o cause? Banned her/him w/o cause? Is following her/him around w/o cause? Again, I am not defending a troll. That's your opinion. Well, you did tell a poster, who was editted/banned, to consider it a good thing. What did you mean by that? ~ Marsh So, BA, should wear her edit as a "badge of honor"? Wow...just wow. ~ Marsh [color:"blue"] Orchid's response: Please read that response in is entirety again: "BA, you were edited by Justuss. Consider that a good thing because no matter what you post, you will be considered by some t/b bad. That's sad if you are not but seems that's how some want to handle things so that's their choice. With that said, please reconsider your posting methods. You may have something good to say but since it c/b taken wrong anyway, consider just reading or if you feel the need to post, post referencing another post. Just a suggestion." Marsh.... there is no badge of honor here. Why would you post a statement like that? BA has multiple user names, the mods are aware of this. The reasons for the mods to edit a post is their call. Some are very sensitive to posts BA makes. Getting it edited by the mods is a good thing since it removes the reason for anger by other posters. It also loses anything good that may have been posted but that loss has been absorbed for you sakes. A price to pay for freedom of speech but done to keep the peace. BA knows his/her presence is not appreciated by 'some'. Thanks to all these war on words....the rest of board notices this also. [/color] From MEDC: MEDC: you beat me to that Marsh. Orchid has been one of the main stirrers of the pot of late. Very sad to see this. Very sad indeed.
Nothing surprises me on these boards any more. I have noticed a change in her from the moment her H posted here. Or at least that is my perception.
What gives Orchid? [color:"blue"] Orchid's reply: You see it as I am one of the main 'stirres'? Of what pot? What are you sad to see? I will try to appeal to your sense of reason..... Let's straighten you all out a bit so you stop wondering and you can all get back to the good kind of posting you use to do. 1. H posted and he was identified on each post he gave. 2. The posts from Orchid have been from me and only me except for what was mentioned in item 1. Medc, how far down did you have to reach to come up with an 'assumption like that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I am shocked you would think that..... [/color] From Mrs W: [quote]Mrs W: I have noticed a change in her from the moment her H posted here. Or at least that is my perception.
What gives Orchid? Agree...Orchid's husband posts in what imo was a very foggy manner-excused by Orchid as him not being a regular poster on the board and then suddenly BLAM...An all new Orchid appears on the scene...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Orchid, can't you see that your continued defense of BA, now BA1, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> does absolutely NOTHING but EMBOLDEN him/her/it...Why in the world would you wish to prop up a troll on a board that I once believed that you valued greatly...I simply do not get it... Mrs. W [color:"blue"] Orchid's reply:Mrs. W, I don't recall posting much to you in the past but I have read some of your posts where you and your H have helped many. It is sad to see you get sucked up into this assumption game..... You and Medc are both wrong about who has been posting. It is not my H, it is me and anyone who knows my posting style can see it quite clearly. Also, I am not sure where you get the idea that I defend BA or anyone else who might be considered a troll but not proven as such yet. I have not and will not do so. What I also don't do is jump on the assumption bandwagon and clamor for others to defame a poster without valid proof. Btw, I clarified the 'defend' point on a previous post, yet you continue to hold onto that idea.... why?!?!?!? Your H is a lawyer and I am sure within his own field he knows the laws tied to burden of proof. When someone posts bad advice and I see it, I often identify it. If it continues, I take it to the next stage. Very similar to what a BS has t/d when dealing with a WS and an A. If that poster would later post something helpful, I generally read it and take it for what the post is. I do believe it is possible for a bad poster to turn around. I also know it is possible for a bad poster to turn worse. Do you know how to tell the difference? I am sure you are aware that some BS' come here and vent on others in error? Also some WS' try to justify their A ways. Both are not good. BA and others may have posted non-helpful things in the past. I haven't really seen it lately but I have seen some following him/her around and making accusations without just cause. That to me is not right. Again, I am not defending a troll. That's your opinion. Btw, my current stance has not changed. I have been like this for a long time. How come you only notice it now? Just a side note: You current MB posters may want to do some research into what real trolls post like. Some of us lived through those days. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Another point, if you all don't like BA so much why don't you just put all those names on 'ignore'? L. [/color] From Mrs W: Orchid: I am not saying that it isn't you posting...What I AM saying is that since your husband posted, the way that you post has CHANGED...MEDC didn't have to dig deep at all...It is OBVIOUS...I suspect that others see it too... As far as where everyone is getting that you are defending BA is concerned...Well, BA sure thinks you are defending her/him/it...It IS OBVIOUS that you are defending the troll, make no mistake about it... You contradict yourself within your posts... BA and others may have posted non-helpful things in the past. I haven't really seen it lately but I have seen some following him/her around and making accusations without just cause. That to me is not right. Again, I am not defending a troll. That's your opinion. The first quote above by you DEFENDS BA, and then in the very next breath you say you aren't defending him/her/it...Good grief how in the world can you not see this??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> *THUD* Mrs. W [color:"blue"] Orchid's response: That is not how I see but that is how you continue to choose to view it. I will leave it as your POV vs mine. Btw, my way of posting hasn't changed in many years. The last change happened when I went from plan A to B waaay back in 2001. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Also, if I was defending a troll.....everyone would know it. But since I am not, not everyone shares your POV. Btw, regarding my H posting, I mentioned he doesn't post often as as FYI, not as an excuse. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Ok, as of 9:21 pm this evening (HST), these are my responses. The first copied post from Maggie's thread was taken from today around 2:18pm (HST) or 6:18 CST???? I will delete my responses from that thread. I will respond on this subject on this thread, not Maggie's. L.[/color]
Last edited by Orchid; 12/23/07 02:45 AM.
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Okay: JESUS! Take me now, Lord! -ol' 2long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Orchid, you are much stronger than I. My hat is off 2 you. Merry Christmas 2 you and your family! P.S. Tell pep that the lei she put on my VW picup's side view mirror at Bob's in 200FIVE is still there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
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Okay: JESUS! Take me now, Lord! -ol' 2long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Orchid, you are much stronger than I. My hat is off 2 you. Merry Christmas 2 you and your family! P.S. Tell pep that the lei she put on my VW picup's side view mirror at Bob's in 200FIVE is still there! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> My dear 2L, Thanks..... I know what you mean.... U still have that lei? Oh boy.... gotta get you a new one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> When r u guys gonna do another meet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> L.
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Orchids...I NEVER said it wasn't you posting...just that you have become "different" since your H's post.
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Seriously, BA109, I said please....it was in a sentence form, not a list. Of course it was not a list but can you see how what you posted can be viewed as a list? A list of specific directions on how to post. It's apparent that maggiemagster viewed it this way and chose to leave the board because of it. Perhaps it's YOUR posting style that is causing a stir. She did not ask for your "suggestions" on how to post to or about a troll. You instructed her anyway.
ba109
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The fact that you said "please" does nothing but mask your demands in politeness.
When I tell my DD "Please clean your room" it's not a request and she knows it. I think maggie knew it too.
ba109
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GOOD LORD!
Take me now, JESUS!
ba, if you'd simply put "can be viewed" in italics, I think the point would have been at least as clear, but would also have highlighted the simple fact that we're communicating anonymously here via text, we can't see facial expressions or body language, so we're making our own interpretations of what others are saying 2 us.
What the heck is wrong with being polite???
As for whether it was a demand, and that demand was for maggie 2 post in a specific way 2 a troll, I sure as heck didn't interpret it that way.
So, what does that tell you?
-ol' 2long
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Good grief Charlie Brown. What a tempest in a teapot.
I saw nothing wrong with Orchid's post; it was polite and sensible. I had the same reaction myself to what maggie wrote. IMO, telling another poster to "STFU" because they are a troll is not only an ineffective means of communication, it detracts from the thread and its initial poster.
The effect that I have seen thus far is that the troll in question becomes the focus of many threads it posts on. Now where's the sense in that?
With regard to posting style, the fact that maggie felt the need to defend her post by saying that it reflected the "tone" of the forum and its "vet" posters was disturbing - to me, at least.
PK
Last edited by penaltykill; 12/23/07 11:53 AM.
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This whole thing is just utterly ridiculous! How many people have been helped while all of this hubbub surrounding BA, BA1, BAwhatever goes on? Is it an ego thing, or some need to be RIGHT? Is this actually protecting anybody from a troll?
Using the ignore feature still works, doesn't it? Why not just advise that and move on. If this person is a troll, and they are largely ignored, they will go away. How hard is it to understand that? If they are not, maybe they will read further and really learn to apply MB principles.
I don't see how maggie was helped at all. What a shame. A FWW comes here, is in a really shaky place and time in her M, and is so discouraged that she leaves. Hopefully, she will continue to read, and get the help she needs, vicariously. Problem there is, this same crap will start on another thread that could be helpful, but goes down this same road. What a shame. She's also a big girl and has made a decision. I wish her the best in her recovery.
Orchid, I read your 'stuff' a lot. I personally don't see a difference in your posting style. I see you applying your style in a specific situation that isn't about MB principles, but about dealing with one another. When you ARE posting about MB principles, I see the same YOU. I dunno, maybe I'm just blind...
Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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As for whether it was a demand, and that demand was for maggie 2 post in a specific way 2 a troll, I sure as heck didn't interpret it that way.
So, what does that tell you? Your interpretation doesn't matter. Nor does mine. Orchids post was directed at MM who thereafter chose to leave the board. It's her interpretation that matters. I find your quip regarding Jesus less than humorous if not offensive. Aren't you an atheist? Notice, I am not asking you to change your posting style or use of verbiage. I name it, I claim it. Continue to post as you like.
Last edited by ba109; 12/23/07 12:41 PM.
ba109
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As for whether it was a demand, and that demand was for maggie 2 post in a specific way 2 a troll, I sure as heck didn't interpret it that way.
So, what does that tell you? Your interpretation doesn't matter. Nor does mine. Orchids post was directed at MM who thereafter chose to leave the board. It's her interpretation that matters. I find your quip regarding Jesus less than humorous if not offensive. Aren't you an atheist? Notice, I am not asking you to change your posting style or use of verbiage. I name it, I claim it. Continue to post as you like. BA109, So in your opinion, her calling BA a troll is ok (not an accussation???), but me posting to her to refocus how she posts so she can be of benefit to the thread originator is a bad thing? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> REALLY??? I'll wait for your reply 'cuz it appears I have been posting wrong for many years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> L.
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SL, Your post is helping to bring clarity to it all. It shows when we don't focus on the real issue, trouble brews. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Your advise to ignore is correct. I even recommended those who couldn't handle it, place BA or even myself on ignore. Yet they continued to engage. I don't post replies to start arguments. Some may thing that, I don't. I post to give and get support as I always have. Believe it or not even after being here for 7+ years I still learn from others. You have been one of those teachers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> In Maggie's case, if my short response was enough to make her leave then her H had the powerful option of communication that should have worked to prevent the A. Yet it didn't. See that train of thought does it? Neither does the fact that my post showed her the door. She choose to leave for her reasons which are still not clear. I am sorry she got caught up in the troll stuff and I tried to steer her away from it. For those who followed her thread, you may find she was following BA around for a while. Why would a FWS newbie do that? Hm... Still I also hope she gets help, if not from the MB board, then she has and should already be using the other tools such as MC w/Steve or Jennifer or an MC familiar with MB concepts. Her H can help her also. I did post that suggestion to her. Not sure if she took it as a 'demand' or not. The funny thing is that I am careful about NOT posting demands. To be accused of that now is sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> At this time I am waiting for BA109's input. If he/she thinks my posts in general are demands then I have to stop posting since that goes against my style. I generally don't run away when someone makes a statement like that.....maybe there's a lesson in there to learn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> L.
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Orchid, This is what new posters agree to when they opt to register to post on the boards. They do not require your assistance or suggestions as to how to implement these rules when they post on the board. To my knowledge, you have not been appointed any such role on this board. Board Rules
Considering the real-time nature of this bulletin board, it is impossible for us to review messages or confirm the validity of information posted. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the contents of and are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this BB or any entity associated with this BB. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB. Although this BB does not and cannot review the messages posted and is not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we at this BB reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this BB, Madrona Park, Inc. (the makers of the bulletin board software), and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Marriage Builders, Inc. also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you. Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate on this BB.
I Agree
ba109
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...getting her out of harms way was meant to help her stay out of the war on words that seems to start up anytime the 'troll' accusation is posted. How exactly did you get her out of harm's way, Orchid? Looks like Maggie felt as though YOU dragged her out into the middle of the war, and poked at her while you protected BA from 'harm's way'. Orchid's response: Please read that response in is entirety again: " BA, you were edited by Justuss. Consider that a good thing because no matter what you post, you will be considered by some t/b bad. That's sad if you are not but seems that's how some want to handle things so that's their choice. With that said, please reconsider your posting methods. You may have something good to say but since it c/b taken wrong anyway, consider just reading or if you feel the need to post, post referencing another post. Just a suggestion." I believe that BA gave Justuss good cause to edit her post and ban her. I support the REAL moderators here. BA has multiple user names, the mods are aware of this. The reasons for the mods to edit a post is their call. Some are very sensitive to posts BA makes. Do you KNOW why she was editted and banned, Orchid? Or are you ASSUMING BA didn't break any MB posting rules? Getting it edited by the mods is a good thing since it removes the reason for anger by other posters. Again, do you KNOW THAT is the reason BA was editted/banned? To remove a reason for other posters to get angry? You're 100% sure that BA didn't break any rules? It also loses anything good that may have been posted but that loss has been absorbed for you sakes. A price to pay for freedom of speech but done to keep the peace. What "good" thing did BA post that the rest of us missed out on? ~ Marsh
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Orchid,
This is what new posters agree to when they opt to register to post on the boards. They do not require your assistance or suggestions as to how to implement these rules when they post on the board. To my knowledge, you have not been appointed any such role on this board. BA109, None of us were appointed. We are guests here on MB. You are right about not requiring anyone's assistance. If it is offered, it is up to the receiver to decide to hear it or not. I certainly don't get where you thought my post was more than any of my other posts. So based on what you have written, I need to leave. I will finish giving the support for those I started helping, then leave. No fanfare, just leave. Thanks for showing me the door. L.
Last edited by Orchid; 12/23/07 05:21 PM.
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Your interpretation doesn't matter. Nor does mine. Orchids post was directed at MM who thereafter chose to leave the board. It's her interpretation that matters. And you presume 2 know what that is? How about Orchid and maggie sorting out what each other meant on their own, without any of us effers interfering? I find your quip regarding Jesus less than humorous if not offensive. Aren't you an atheist? No. An atheologist. I was raised a Christian, but I'm not a practicing one. Thomas was my favorite disciple. Notice, I am not asking you to change your posting style or use of verbiage. I name it, I claim it. Continue to post as you like. I'd rather run screaming from the room! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I've seen more ridiculous things in my lifetime than what's happening here. But I sure as heck can't remember them at the moment. -ol' 2long
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The following are MY OPINIONS.
We are all adults here.
Other than the mods, it is nobody else's business how we post.
Telling or "suggesting" how others should post is an attempt to control others.
We can only control ourselves.
Trying to control how others post is taking away from the business at hand, which is saving marriages.
I am sick of all this carp.
"Your actions are so loud that I can't hear a word you're saying!"
BW M 44 yrs to still-foggy but now-faithful WH. What/how I post=my biz. Report any perceived violations to the Mods.
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Other than the mods, it is nobody else's business how we post.
Telling or "suggesting" how others should post is an attempt to control others. I agree. 2long, Atheologist? Is that even a word? I thought you were an atheist. Thank you for correcting me. This is a silly thread isn't it? I think the Board Rules are clear.
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2long,
Atheologist? Is that even a word? I thought you were an atheist. Thank you for correcting me. I made it up. But it describes me better than "atheist" does. I don't believe in religion, and I'm likely 2 spiri2al 2 be comfortable around true atheists (I've never attended any atheism thingys, if there are any). This is a silly thread isn't it? I think the Board Rules are clear. Silly is a nice way 2 put it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I hope people can bear with my sometimes-revolting sense of humor. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But I would be saner if I could discipline myself 2 post only once or 2wice a year or so... -ol' 2long
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