Are you having trouble with the imagery or the fact that they are doing it?

If it is the imagery, then you might want to talk to your doctor about a mild anti-depressant and some anti-anxiety medication to be used for a short period of time.

As for the truth of what they are doing, it is simple, they are doing what people who have sex, do. Nothing more.

What you need to understand is that what they are experiencing has everything to do with how it makes them feel individually. Affairs are generally very self-oriented. According to Harley, it has everything to do with emotional needs being met.

Your wife has already told you that she likes a man with an "edge". She is finding that in the other man. He may be a complete [censored] otherwise, and have few, if any, other redeeming qualities. That is why I want to help you get an edge since she already likes other things about you.

Once she is out of the affair, you can begin to work out the issues of your marriage. You can't get there until you can get her attention.

Let me ask you a question. How blatant is she about the affair?

Gimble

Hi Gimble,

I would say that she has been fairly blatent to this point, at least with exposure to me. I did have to tell her again that I did not want to talk about the OM with her but always seem to get sucked into converasations. At this point I am trying to keep it to small talk.

She does seem to be expressing more and more doubts about the other relationship but says she has an "attachment" to the OM that she needs to work through.

I agree that I need to develop an edge with respect to her. I will definitely look up the books that you suggest and keep trying to do the right thing. I'll post again later tonight as I can't stay on the site too long from work.

Another question or four.

- How is your weight?
- Do you have any toned muscle?
- Who controls the conversations in the marriage, is it equal or one sided?
- What hours are you available for posting so that we can do more than a couple of posts a day back and forth?

Gimble

can you move back home....
for the children's sake..
have you seen a lawyer for advisement yet...

As a follow up; how do you stop thinking about what your spouse is doing with the OP. Does anybody have any tricks on how to cope with this that have worked with them?

think of Dante's Inferno and his vision of he))

Continuing across the lake, Dante is horrified to see one sinner gnawing at another’s head from behind. He inquires into the sin that warranted such cruelty, stating that he might be able to spread the gnawing sinner’s good name on Earth.

here in this ring he finds men feasting off the brains of eachother...

never to be satisfied
never resting...

active affair partners are like this to me...

all the goodness
all the love
all the created feelings of 'good emotions' are illusions...
for there is NOTHING and I do mean nothing good about their interactions....

their union is false
their so called good times are false....time and minutes at the price of their children and spouses....

all of it is false...

yet they gorge on one another in a sickening battle...


there is nothing and I mean nothing glamorous, sexy, tender, or loving about any of their interactions..

they are all false acts and emotions....

built on lies...
created from deceipt...

there is NOTHING to be jealous of their time
nothing to be admired about their relationship....

all of it is grotesque...

people in active affairs are very very very lost souls...make no mistake about that...

they gorge on one another because it is the only place that they can live the lie without facing its vileness...
yet it their actions that are vile....

thay can glam it shine it gloss it varnish it sugar coat and wrap it in the prettiest bow...

but their affair actions are deep dark lies....
that feed off eachother....

and create falseness in every emotion...

there is no true love
no true light
no true goodness....

do not waste time pining for what they have..
for what they have is fleeting and horrifying

ARK

Gimble,

In answer to your questions:

(1) I had actually been working out for over a year prior to the last "reativation" of the affair this past November and looked pretty good. I am thin to begin with and lost about 15 - 20 pounds which doesn't work for me. I have since started working out again and am picking up the weight again.

(2) This is one of the weird things about our relationship. We have always been able to have great conversation with neither stepping on each others words. The conversations were about equal until the affair got hot again when they essentially declined. One of the reasons she siad she was drawn to him was because I talked too much. Now she is saying that he doesn't talk at all. I am trying to keep my conversations very short and to the point. She seems to be missing that at least.
(3) Probably will not be available for the rest of the night but may be able to log in early tomorrow morning. Should be available most of the day on Sunday. I can check during the weekdays from work and some evenings (don't have a computer in the apartment).

I did pick up the two books you suggested and have to say that from a cursory review they are both eye openers. I can really see myself in the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book.

To ARK,

WOW! Great post. This is just the type of imagry I was looking for to get me through the mind movies and thoughts when I know or think they are together. My appointment with the attorney got postponed but I should be able to get in next week. Although I cannot realistically move back in now, I probably am with the kids as much if not more than my wife.

One thing that the alone time has given me is the time to think about my life and what needs to change within me (regardless of what happens with my M). This was very difficult the first two weeks but seems to be getting easier and more productive.

I am glad you got the books. I am also glad that you are in reasonable physical condition.

Here is a challenge for you. Go to your local boxing gym, ask for some basic instruction, then spend a bit of time boxing with a sparring partner. I want you to get over the fear of getting your nose bloody or a busted lip. If you find that you like the workout, make it a regular part of your training. Your wife won't know what to think. Let me know if you can do it, and I will help you deal with your wife's reaction to it.

Continue to lower your spoken word count :-)

Gimble

FWIW, I have never heard of this approach, and must say that I really like it. I think I see where you're going with this ... well done.

Gimble (and whoever else reads this post),

I like the idea. Unfortunately I have no boxing gyms locally but am going to try to find one close to work.

I will be watching the kids tonight while my WW goes out with the OM. From everything I have read there is nothing I can say that will stop her from seeing the OM. This has to come from her. I have a feeling that the more they see each other (now that exposure has occurred) the quicker things will come to a head. I plan on having fun with my children and try not to think about her.

Should be able to get back on the computer for a little while this evening.

If there is no legal requirement that you be home with the children, then you might consider taking them out and doing something fun with them while your wife is on her "date". If bedtimes permit, get back after your wife is home, pack the kids off to bed and then leave with little comment.

If not, then tell her before you leave, with no embellishment and no anger, just matter of fact, "You are behaving very disrespectfully toward me and your children", then leave without discussion.

Let me know when you get started on the boxing.

Gimble

Just so I don't forget, make sure that if you use the home computer, you clear the history and cookie buffers. You don't want her reading your interactions on this forum.

Gimble

Hey Gimble,

I was planning on leaving pretty much as soon as she walks through the door. I did tell her earlier today that I thought she was being disrespectful towards me and the family but that obviosuly did not have much of an affect on her actions. As I think I noted before she does at least seem to be thinking now. 6 weeks ago she couldn't wait to get a divorce and did not see anyway that we could ever be together. Last night she told me that she can at least see a chance we could make it throygh this. She also commented that I am not nearly as needy as I once was. As much as it hurts now, the only way she is going to see this a^^^^^e for what he is is to be exposed to him.

The one thing that doesn't make sense is that she always tells me that I am the best thing that ever happened to her and she can't see me not be in her life, blah, blah, blah. Getting to te point that I don't know what is fog and what isn't.

Thanks for the reminder about the history and cookies. I normally do this after every session.

Yes, be sure to let her know that she is being disrespectful to you and her FAMILY. Sounds like OM is bad news. What can she be thinking? Throwing it all away for a loser.

Believer,
Don't get it myself but what BS does during the A? From what I have read here, not many. At this point I am commiited to this relationship until I can be sure that I have done everything possible to save the marriage and keep the family together. Can't say that is how I will feel in 6 months if things don't change but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

All of her friends have told her the same thing (that he is a loser) and she has even admitted that she now has serious doubts about him but she cn't break free. Everyone talsk about an affair being a drug and I really can see it. I am resigned to the fact that she is going to have to figure this out on her own.

Time will tell. Thanks very much for your support!

The best thing you can do is make a nice life for yourself. No use wasting time being miserable. The affair usually ends and they come back.

Be sure to be working on anything she complained about before the affair.

Other than that, just treat yourself well, keep up fun activities and enjoy your life.

Excellent. I believe that the truth never returns void. Call what you told her a "truth dart" if you like. A Wayward spouse is rarely teachable, but simple truths can often reach them through their fog.


She is in conflict. On the one hand, she doesn't want to destroy her family, on the other, she is full of attachment chemicals and that is reinforced if the other man continues to meet her important emotional needs. One need that she has been clear about with you, is your "edge" as she called it. We need to develop a good, solid, honest manly edge in you, not some macho act. She will notice, and it will make it even more difficult for her to continue the affair as the conflict in her increases.

Make sure that you do away with any needy/grabby/placating behavior in yourself forever. That is a part of you that needs to seriously decline in prevalence. She finds that behavior a turn off, and it isn't compelling to her.

You are off to a good start.

You are going to have to make some hard changes in yourself, and the learning curve is going to be steep and quick. If you can hack it, you will end up a better MAN, whether or not your marriage survives. Once you are able to move about in your new environment, then there are some things that you can do to interfere with the affair. The fun stuff. Taking these first steps have already had an impact.

All the best,
Gimble

I agree that the changes that I am making will make me a better person reagrdless of whether the marriage survives. Needed to watch the kids today as WW has to work and made a concentrated efforts to keep my words short and off of us, him, or our marriage when I saw her this morning. Made sure that I did not sound rude, angry, hurt, etc but just not as talkative as I used to be. Also made sure that I was not grabby or needy at one point getting up and moving when she sat down next to me. May not sound like much but I am pretty sure she is noticing these little things.

She did try to tell me some of the things that they discussed last night but I told her as her husband I wasn't really interested in what she and the OM discuss unless it involves the affair ending for good. She again did say that she knows this A is a destructive realtionship to which I did not respond with any advice, etc.

I was supposed to go out with a couple of friends tonight but they had other things come up. Instead, I am just going to go see a movie that I have wanted to see and not tell her that my plans had changed. Also plan on going out with some of the people from work tomorrow night and am actually looking forward to it.

You did good!

You are becoming a man of mystery to her, and responding to her in unanticipated ways. Definitely getting her attention.

You are a quick study, hurtin. This is good.

Enjoy your movie.

Gimble

Thinking a bit ahead here, hurting.

Pick up a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs" by Harley and read it. Download the online questionnaires off this site and fill them out for both you and your wife.

When it is time for your second boxing lesson, it will be time to casually mention to her that you have taken up boxing. Don't use the word "lesson". After the mention, you should hand her the HNHN book, and tell her that you have read it, and that it contains the answers to having a great marriage. Sell her on the idea that the two of you can have have a better marriage than before by learning a few simple things (don't use the word "rules"), but that can only be done if the affair has ended. Keep it short and quick, then leave her the book. Don't discuss anything else about your relationship that day, unless she brings up ending the affair. Then lay out what that means to you. Don't accept her version which will include "closure". The only closure in ending an affair is no contact with the other person forever.

Make sure you understand what ending the affair means. The "rules" are in the "Surviving An Affair" book.

I hope you will get the boxing started soon.

Gimble

Gimble,

I am moving forward with the boxing plan as suggested and have found a couple of places close to work.

HAve to admit that I am a little down today. I got to spend a majority of the weekend with the children and now will not see much of them until later this week. My WW also told me (unsolicited) that she is pretty sure that she is in love with the OM but doesn't know if he can make her as happy as I have in the past???

She keeps on saying that it would be better for us to get a divorce as she feels "guilty" seeing someone else why still married. Her reasoning is that if it does not work out with him we can always try to work through our problems and get back together. I very calmly told her that I was not ready for a divorce but if that is what she wants she doen not need me to file on her own. Is this type of talk normal???

OM is now completely out of his xW's house so my WW's access to him has increased which bothers me. I have the kids on Friday nights and it gnaws at me knowing that she is with him late into the night talking about how to make a future together. I have refused to watch the kids at our house on these evenings which at least forces her to come home and let out the dog. I am convinced that she will eventually see him for what he is but the waiting is just brutal.

Even with this I am still trying to stick with the program and not give up. Maybe the increased exposure will help in the end. She again noted that I am not nearly as clingy and needy as I once was. I am still convincing myself that any changes that I make now will help me out in the future, regardless of what happens in our M. I am doing my best to not call her during the day and not letting her see my pain, although I did let it slip that I missed the kids.

Just rambling a little here to try to get this out of my system.

Excellent!



There are a couple of hardcore truths about infidels. Rule number one, is that ALL cheaters lie, you can't be one without the other. Number two, is that you can't believe most of what comes out of their mouth. They are functioning at the level of an 8th grader with their first taste of puppy love.

Actions are what matter. Don't listen to what they say. When words and actions match, then you MIGHT have something of substance to consider.


Don't try to, or expect to reason with a wayward spouse. This is normal talk, and it is called "fog" around here, as in the infidel exists in a state of childlike fantasy with little grounding in reason or logic.



Spend all the time you can with your kids. They need at least one sane parent. Get her to drop them off at your place if you can. If not, then even if it appears that you are enabling the affair, spend the time with your kids. They need a hero.

She will likely see him for what he is sooner, with full access to him.


It is fine to miss the kids. That is healthy and normal. You need your lawyer to try and legally injunct her and him to keep the other man from having any access to your kids.

The changes you are making absolutely will make you a better man, and a better catch for the right woman later on if need be. It will also make you a better father.


Better to ramble here than with her :-)

You are doing well. Keep it up.

Gimble