Hi, hurtin.

My email address is in my profile (just click on my user name). You are welcome to drop me a note anytime. If you can't afford a session with Steve Harley, why don't you contact me so that we can discuss it.

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,

I can only stay on line for minute or so but wanted to let you know I appreciate your support and will definitely take you up on the email offer. The beginning and end of the week always seems the hardest for me to tolerate.

Thanks again

I really feel for you. I just don't understand why any wayward spouse would be attractive to a spouse that allows her to continue to have a sexual affair with another man while you stay home with the kids allowing her to meet him.

Again if the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would be accepting such humiliation and disrespect from you? You seem to be allowing her to be a cake-eater for as long as she wants. She gets the best of both worlds. I am sorry my friend but a marriage is between two and not three people. Allowing her to share herself with another man is a recipie for disaster. Maybe just maybe if you started divorce proceedings it would wake her up out of the fog. Allowing her to humiliate and disrespect you this way will not accomplish what you seek. Nevertheless I wish you the best.

^^^^Ditto what Bp said.^^^^

She is in a fog, speaking all babble. Why in the heck does she think you would EVER care about a conversation between you and the OM? And she wants you to babysit while she goes out with him, and you, her husband sit at home like a nice little hubby>! WHT-E-VER!

Seriously, put up boundaries. Be nice, but don't tolerate cake eating. She will get sick of it and the new-ness will wear off. Be the very best YOU like Believer said. Pray, journal, get on here to talk to us.

That's what an affair is - a sexual/emotional relationship with an other person outside of the marriage. Most of the people here currently are or have been in the recent past, dealing with spouses who are having an affair. Most of the ones who show up here are trying to salvage a marriage as their WS continues the affair.

That's what the betrayed spouse has to deal with as he/she labors to save the marriage. Dr. Harley's method directs the betrayed spouse to Plan A as the work toward the affair ending and marriage building begins.

I don't understand why an issue is being made about the BS keeping his children while his wife is acting as most wayward spouses do. Betrayed wives keep the children while the wayward husband does affair-goofed things just in the same way that betrayed husbands step up and keep the children while his wayward wife does affair-goofed things.

Children aren't pawns to be used to control a wayward spouse, or manipulate a wayward spouse. Children are trapped in the dysfunction just as much as the BS and with fewer abilities to deal with it. They need at least one sane parent *that takes their needs into primary consideration*.

That's the BS whether it's the husband or the wife.

Have the options available to him been considered? Someone he may not know or trust can babysit his children (chosen by the spouse whose decision making skills are less than optimal) or while he makes some sort of stand his WW hauls his children off to spend time with the affair partner.

I know what *my* choice would be. He isn't allowing his wife to cheat - that's hardly in his control. What he IS trying to do is keep things together, protect his children, work on saving his marriage, while going through one of the most devastating things he can go through.

He could use our support while he does.

Bryanp and FreeToBeMe,

There have been many times that I have been close to taking the suggestion that I initiate divorce to see if it would be wake her up. The reason that I have not to this point is that I am vehemently against divorce and do not want to use as a weapon. That does not mean that I will never come to the conclusion that divorce is the only thing left to do but for me there can be no other options left. I also do think that my WW has begun to wake up in the last four weeks or so as I have seen glimpses of what we used to have. Whether those glimpses will grow is what remains to be seen.

She does know in no uncertain terms that I do not approve or condone her behavior. With respect to the kids, we have no family in the area and while we do have babysitters available I would rather be with my children. The vast majority of the time on those nights where she is meeting the OM I watch the kids at my apartment and not the house.

Graplin, thanks for your words as they probably echo my feelings better than I can put in writing.

Hurtin,
I am glad to hear that you are a devoted Dad, and also that she brings them to your apartment when she does her philandering. I would much rather my son be with me than a babysitter too. But you having to go over to your own house while she goes out to play with OM is WRONG! Talk about a slap in the face. Might as well send her off with a pack of condoms while your at it. Do NOT enable the affair.

I was not suggesting divorce off the bat, just set up some boundaries so she can't take any more advantage of you than she already is (typical WS behavior).

When you are ready, Plan B helps that happen. If you read the statistics, while Plan A is instrumental, most WS's only return after a good Plan B was done. Whether this is just due to the time factor, or the way the BS reestablishes self esteem or both...who knows.

It does help get you out of the drama of the situation, see things a little more clearly and provide time for you to work on yourself, instead of every waking moment thinking of her. That gets tiring!

Keep the faith and be strong. I have been through it and am going through it now. Some days are better than others, but overall you will keep making that uphill climb.

This is my belief: Until your wife learns to control herself and turns her life over to God, you just can't focus on her. It is not your fault and you have to just hand her over to God 100%. You have to stay strong for your kids and the best way to get through this is to trust God so much that you are able to live as though this never happened. Continue to pray for restoration, but don't chase her. Don't play their games. The minute you are not playing "the game" is the minute she will be able to get a reality check of what she has chosen and I'm telling you that it will be a real wake up call for her.

The new will wear off and the old will shine through!

FreeToBeMe,

Actually it was Bryanp who suggested that I file and see if it wakes her up and out of the fog. I am not disputing that this actually may work but this is just not me. She has actually threatened this and I am sure she is getting pressure from the OP but to date has held off on filing.

I agree that there is only so much I can do for her and try to turn as much over to God as possible. That is one of the stranger things about this. She is actually committed to her faith and feels that religion is very important while the OP has essentially no use for God or a higher power. That is only one example of extreme differences in value systems between the two of them. I guess opposites attract.

I agree that what she was asking me to do was a slap in the face and will not stay in our house while she is out on a date with the OM. That is one of the boundaries that I have set. With Gimbles help, I have just started trying to implement a good plan A but realize that a plan B will likely be needed down the road.

Like everybody in this siutation I am just trying to muddle my way through and keep my head up. I wish you nothing but luck with your situation and will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

I do wish you luck. You should not be the second choice in your marriage. Her threatening you with a divorce is absolutely ludicrous. She has the best of both worlds. If you were to file divorce it would force her to re-evaluate what she is doing, what she is losing and hopefully awaken her to the fact that you are no longer a doormat. There is nothing attractive to being a doormat.

What seems to be happening is that you are waiting for the OM to finally get tired of having sex with your wife and engaging in some argument where he ends it with her. She will then return to you as the door prize. Do you really want it this way? By filing for divorce it will force her to choose once and for all. Being married to a wife who has no problem seeing and having sex with her lover while her husband takes care of his child while she goes out with him is pathetic. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. I wish you luck.

Seriously ... WHY are you here???

This A has been going off and on for over 12 years and you haven't done SQUAT to stop it. As a matter of fact, you have done JUST THE OPPOSITE ... you have enabled the A to continue.

As BS's, we are conditioned to pay more attention to actions rather than words, and your ACTIONS say that you're OK with this arrangement, regardless of what your WORDS say.

When you're ready to ACT, let us know ...

BryanP and MyRev,

Little more background may be necessary here. My WW was engaged in an affiar with this OP 12 years ago. I am convinced that she had no contact with him until approximately 2 years ago. I am also convinced that the affair was EA based until about 4 months ago when it became a PA. I know that you will not believe that and it really doesn't matter in the end as the result is the same.

Now, I am not disaggreeing with you that I could have done more in the past and I am not okay with my wife having an affair. If I was, I would not be on this site and living my life in blissful ignorance.

In addition to trying to get some advise from those that have been through this, I have taken additional action including meeting with a lawyer to learn my options, starting IC, and setting some initial boundries with more to follow. I apologize for not meeting your aggressiveness or timeframes for action but believe it or not this is still relatively new to me.


Believe it or not I do appreciate your bluntness and would welcome any further comments.

Hello again,

It does seem that you are being more proactive. We all hope that you succeed based on terms of mutual respect and honesty.

As a follow up, I agree that I cannot be second Choice in this marriage and do not want her as a door prize. To reiterate what I said in my earlier post, I would not file for a divorce until I was sure there was no other option. At this time I am not there but that may all change at any time (which is why I met with a lawyer).

I am not waiting for the OM to dump my spouse but instead am hoping that by doing a decent plan A that she will see what she is doing. I am doing this with the full realization that a plab B will likely be necessary.

Finally, I am trying to also work on myself for me. This is a very new concept for me which I am just beginning to enjoy.

Again, I appreciate all comments

Hi, hurtin.

Have you talked to other man's wive on the phone just to verify their marital status?

You proceed according to a battle plan. When your situation is all lined up in a way that is most likely to benefit you, your marriage, and your children, then you jump out of the corner, yell "boo" and lob grenades. As long as there are kids involved, you need to have a plan. Hang in there.

Gimble

Filing for divorce before his ducks are in a row will practically guarantee that he will be relegated by the legal system to being an every-other-weekend dad and distant paycheck.

Betrayed husbands in this day and time, are woefully treated by the judicial system when it comes to their children, their finances, and their property/possessions.

Never, ever issue an ultimatum until you are cognizant and willing to live with the worse possible result.


Do you also think it pathetic when a betrayed wife parents the children while the wayward husband is out perpetrating his affair? Or actually living with the OW?

Do you have children? Young children?

Would you be willing to refuse to parent your young children because you thought you were making some strategic point in some sort of marital maneuver? Leaving your children to the whim of the woman who just tossed the whole family on its ear? Again, do you suggest that he be willing to prove his point as his WW introduces the children to ~stepdad~ when they all go on a ~family~ date because dad was busy trying to prove the point that he was not a pushover?

A majority of the posters on this forum who have experienced infidelity have "kept" their children while the wayward spouse pursued their affair. Betrayed spouses trying to save their marriage from an affair, have almost to a man/woman worked to keep the family fires burning while their wayward spouse "has no problem

I do not understand, are you are making a distinction between betrayed husbands and betrayed wives?

It's pathetic for a father to care for his own children while the WW does what wayward wives do?

Do you also view it as pathetic when a betrayed wife cares for the children while the WH does what wayward husbands do?

The reality is, that this exact scenario occurs now and has occurred to just about everyone who has personally dealt with infidelity on this forum.

So, your advice to hurtin is to:

File for divorce.
Force her to choose.

Does that about cover it?

Dr. Harley's methods don't have those 2 things at the top of the recommended paths to take, IIRC.

In addition to the methods promoted by MB, I would suggest battening down the finances, examine and make plans for protecting the joint banking accounts as well as the joint credit cards. A WS in an affair (or heading that way) will often clean out the joint checking accounts, choose to not pay for household bills, run up massive credit card debt.

Keep a detailed record of time spent parenting the children. Any details known or discovered about the time the WS spends with the OP, out partying, failing to show up at work, etc.

Keep a detailed account of monies expended for the household, for the secondary domicile, for the children, for the spouse.

Contact an attorney and find out what all of your legal options and liabilities are in the case of divorce and/or continued separation.

Build up a support system for yourself (this is especially true for men, who are often alone when dealing with infidelity) that can help you. Friends, family, fellow religious folks, neighbors. You never know when you might need a ride, or your children babysat for, or a prayer, or a listening ear, or a couple of dollars, or a spy, etc.

Put together a list of choice responses to existing or likely scenarios you encounter with your WS that you haven't handled well at this point or would like to handle better in the future.

Make a plan. Work the plan. Learn to act rather than react. Acting upon your plan will help keep you from being blown about by the WS winds that are bound to be around.

Gimble,

Did not check with his wife but confirmed through court records that the divorce was final. I am continuing with the battle plan a we have discussed and will keep you updated.

To Graplin, thanks for the advice. I have been recording the bills but not keeping a journal of the time I spent with the kids. I have also kept some emails that she sent to me re the situation. Luckily I do have a pretty solid support system here and have a number of freinds that have been keeping tabs on me and taking me out for a beer every now and than. I also like the of having some pre planned responses for possible scenarios and things that I ahve not handled well in the past.