Hello all, it's been a very long time since I stopped by. To be honest, during that time, my marriage got better, but I would not dare to say we ever went into real recovery mode. What I did get during the time from when the first affair/d-day is time spent with my daughter every day. I developed into a stronger person and in the end a better dad.

Because my wife never quit working with the OM and because she never committed herself back to the marriage. I felt the need to continue to snoop. For almost a year now I can say that there had been no contact with the OM outside of the work setting and even then only occassionally.

Last week, my wife received an email from her "junior high" sweet heart saying he missed her and asked how she was doing. (by the way, I am my wife's HS sweetheart). She replied she was doing ok and that she also missed him. That lead to the next email from him confessing his deep feelings for her and how he remembers her saying that he was her first true love and he wondered if she had feelings for him also. He asked if she was happy, because he had heard that she wasn't.

You guessed it, she replied she was not really happy, but that I was good to her and how I stuck with her . . . She also said that she had feelings for him and that she could see herself with him and happy. That's most of it. It was basically them feeling out each other and flirting.

He again responded going the next step asking her to meet him for lunch, dinner or a weekend . . .

After reading her reply, I decided enough was enough. I had planned on sitting down with her after the holidays and discussing the future. I also am not happy. I told my wife that had that feeling in my gut again that something was going on and on top of that, I knew that she really wasn't in love with, so maybe it was time for us to move on. After telling me she loved me and didn't want a divorce, we talked some more and then went to bed. By the time we woke up, she had figured out that I looked at her work email and demand that I admit it. I never did, but . . .

So that's my update for now.

Why post? Because people can learn from my mistakes. I allowed this to happen by how I did or didn't handle the first affair. I didn't expose at work, I didn't hold to boundaries and I did not force no contact and a change of job.

Hi Grove,

I'm not sure what mistakes you think you've made to allow your wife to start this new affair. The exposure at work may or may not have made a difference. What boundaries did you fail to enforce? You can't 'force' no contact---it's got to be a joint effort.

Have you worked at all with the Harley's in regards to a recovery plan? The early phase of recovery is often the trickiest part of an affair to get through. Your wife knows that you're good to her and you've stuck with her---but the two of you haven't reestablished romantic love.

I'd suggest that you call the Harley's at 888-639-1639 and set up counseling. Talk with Steve or Jenn first---they'll help with a plan to deal with this latest setback. It's going to take some extraordinary precautions on your wife's part to deal with her tendency for inappropriate contact, but if the two of you are in love, she'll certainly be more motivated.

What are you thinking now, with regards to your next move?

grovetucky,

I remember you. Useful post for all.

I also snooped. Felt guilty about it. Looking back, I realize that spying is not bad when your spouse is sneaking and cheating; it is essential to protect your marriage and to have information about what is happening in your own life.

Who cares if your wife figured out how you learned she was talking to her old flame? She was wrong, and she didn't learn anything from the other affair. Funny how they get mad when you snoop to find out what is going on in your own LIFE, and how justified they (cheaters) feel when they undermine their marriages.

So, like K said, what are you thinking now?

grovetuck, aren't you the guy that Dr. Harley told to DIVORCE his wife?

WOW, really? Did DR h really say that?
I'm kinda shocked. That's not his style. He seems to find a way in spite of the horrid circumstances. I'm really shocked!

All Blessings,
Jerry

Jerry, I have heard Dr Harley say it numerous times. In some cases, divorce IS the definition of success. For example, if a person has been in plan B for over 2 years, he says there is little hope and the BS should just move on. Their goal is not marriage at any and all cost.

you know Mel, you and Dr H are both right about this but somehow it does not diminish my disdain for DV.

It's just me and my atttitude towards DV. I hate to think that ther isn't some way around this.

But that's just me I guess.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Unfortunately I received a lot of different advice.

I spoke to SH (plus Chalmers) and Dr H, along with my own psychologist and attorney. Everyone seemed to have a different opinion depending on the day you asked them, including Dr H. I spoke to him in Sept. At that time he thought my wife may be making some headway, but he also gave me some advice about restoring love and sent me a book to read. He did recommend that I do a PLAN D on his radio show the first time I called him.

Look, I think I'm a good example of a lot of the things you can do wrong, but maybe more importantly, and unfortunately I might be a better example of a situation and a WS that can't be changed and that will continue to cheat no matter how hard you try or pray.

Mel once said that my wife would never change because she was able to have her cake and eat it too, or something like that. Amen

I really don't have much to add after that. I had a rough two and half years by staying with my wife, but it wasn't all bad and I did get to be with my daughter every day during that time and we were able to give her (and us) a number of memories that she would not have had had I divorced my wife right away (Hawaii, Disney, Dollywood, Lake Cumberland, San Diego). So I have no regrets, I made my choice and I'm willing to live with it. So whatever you do or decide to do, don't look back. Enjoy and cherish the moment(s) and move on.

As for my own plan now. I've learned to never say never, but I don't feel the same about my wife this time as I did the last. I told my wife that I don't have it in me to fight this time, she would have to and even than I couldn't make her any promises. I told her last night to contact a new attorney and we would both speak to that person and work out a uncontested divorce/dissolution. Two years ago we had already come to an agreement on the conditions of our divorce, so this or would be just a formality.

That's about it.

God bless all . . .

Grovetuckyohio

Another no surprise moment. My wife changed her password at work so she can continue her inappropriate contact with the new OM.

You know you kind of hold out hope that you might be surprised and your WS does the right thing. Even though it's not a surprise, it is still disappointing.

Disapointing, yes. Funny, she demands you give up the goods on catching her. Wonder how she'd feel about you demanding her to do anything like, um, I don't know - honor her wedding vows, for one?

Grove, a sure sign of guilt is when they accuse you of snooping. What are they hiding?

She's guilty and caught, and she knows it. Time for a full exposure this time, before it gets worse, or to just leave.

Good luck.

This is exactly right. What reason does your wife have to change her behaviour? She still gets your full financial and emotional support, she gets great family trips to places like Hawaii and Disneyland, *and* she gets to have a boyfriend, too!

We always think the pain and suffering of the BS would be a consequence, but it NEVER is. *N0* WS is ever moved by the suffering of their betrayed spouse.

So, minus your unhappiness (which will mean nothing to her as long as she's a WS), what consequences has she had for her cheating?

Answer: None. And that's why she feels free to keep it up.

There is a very active thread going right now by a BH named "14th". I suggest you read this one all the way through. You'll find it near the top of the forum.

No consequences = no motivation to change.

Happens every time.

I'm sorry this is happening to you.
Mulan

No consequences happens in more than just marriages. How many have heard of the teenager wrecking a new car and just getting another new one? Do you think they will appreciate it THIS time?

No, they won't.

Hello again Mulan and thanks for the input S_Y_F.

Not much to add or say. As I had mentioned previously, my wife and I had discussed her contacting the attorney of "her" choice to work out the details for an uncontested dissolution/divorce. After my daughter went down last night I asked her if she had time to think about this some more and if she made any decisions. She said she hadn't made any decisions and that she had changed her password at work/school. She also stated that she had not called or emailed her junior high sweet heart. She said that she wasn't sure that she wanted a divorce. I told her that I definitely would not make the same mistakes I made previously. If I were to stay with her I would not live or be left in the dark, there would be no more contact with the new OM or the old OM and I would need proof. She said that she did plan on emailing the JH sweetheart and telling him that I had found out and that I was hurt by what I read and that she didn't think they should contact each other anymore. She said she would print the email out for me to read.

Are these the right words, maybe. Will it effect my decision, who knows. I just don't have the same feelings towards her. I did all of the lifting for the past two years and I'm tired and I'm just not sure that I could ever love or trust her again.

Mulan, how are you doing. I've been off the grid for a long time.

grovetuck..

you stand at the crossroads...

it is time to choose in my opinion...

Last week, my wife received an email from her "junior high" sweet heart saying he missed her and asked how she was doing. (by the way, I am my wife's HS sweetheart). She replied she was doing ok and that she also missed him. That lead to the next email from him confessing his deep feelings for her and how he remembers her saying that he was her first true love and he wondered if she had feelings for him also. He asked if she was happy, because he had heard that she wasn't.

You guessed it, she replied she was not really happy, but that I was good to her and how I stuck with her . . . She also said that she had feelings for him and that she could see herself with him and happy. That's most of it. It was basically them feeling out each other and flirting.


She said that she did plan on emailing the JH sweetheart and telling him that I had found out and that I was hurt by what I read and that she didn't think they should contact each other anymore.


your wife's answer is unacceptable...
her reasons for no affair lack depth,
insight
an inkling of the true sacrament of marriage..

all blame is laid at the feet of her spouse...
she is a victim to someone else..
though in her own words she could be happy again like an immature junior high girl with ponytails....

her silly husband....(who cares about the children as long as she is happy) doesn't like her talking to him....so (sigh) she will have to quit for now...but will leave him of thoughts of what could have been



a wife
a woman who believe in marriage could easily answer for herself the reasons of the inappropriateness of contact..

here are few..

it is unrealistic and psycholigically scary that a 'man' approaches someone 'speaking" of carrying the same feelings that he had for her in JUNIOR HIGH...

JUNIOR HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

to a healthy grown woman the thought of JUNIOR HIGH emotional connection would be
needy clingy shallow feel good stuff...that's what it was and is in junior and has no real application in grown up worlds where there is depth and life experiences...

normal women and men should be freaked out as in something is seriously wrong with this person and their life that they are pining for JUNIOR HIGH days and feelings...

it's insulting
it's immature
it's stalkerish
it's jibber...

and your wife doesn't get that at all..

she is flattered by it
she is willing to flirt with it...

people crawling out of junior high and high school memories acting like that was the greatest time/love of their lives....make great characters in stephen king novels when you think of the evil creepiness that's in them to disrupt a strangers life...and speak of things as if time stands still....and life, births, deaths gains and losses don't shape who we are.....

your wife failed the litmus test.....
she doesn't get it....

ARK^^

Amen to that Ark. You said exactly what I was thinking.

gto - you must understand that if you keep waiting for your WW to make ANY decisions on this, you will grow older than Rip Van Winkle and have a much longer beard before she makes one single decision.

You are married to a hard-core fence-sitter and cake-eater. She is very, very comfortable sitting up on that fence with one foot in Married Land and one foot in Single Land, stuffing her face with cake all day long.

Why on earth would she "decide" to end such a comfortable arrangment? That's what we keep trying to tell you: She won't. It's always up to the BS to knock a fence-sitter off the fence, because they will happily sit up there until Doomsday and have no response to your suffering but a blank stare.

No consequences for actions = no motivation to change.

What consequences has your WW had for having an affair? I don't see where she's had any at all.
Mulan

Grove,

Your wife has inappropriate boundaries with men. I don't think your marriage stands a chance until she realizes that and makes changes. The part that stinks is that I don't really see what you can do about it at this point. You can get mad. You can tell her that you won't be treated like that. You can tell her family and the kids and her friends and . . . take out a billboard and tell the world. But unless you are willing to divorce I don't think you are going to shift her behavior. She has been doing this way too long and now it is habit. She likes living the way she is.

Look, I understand that you may be staying with her, at least partly, so you can be there for the kids. I'm doing the same thing. It probably isn't healthy for me, but I am selfish and I want to be a full-time Dad more than anything else. I've made my choice. If I were to divorce she would get the kids. She would get the house and 1/2 the assets. I would get a sh!tty apartment, child support, Wednesdays and every other weekend with the kids. I would get to watch some dude move into my home and live with my kids. No thanks. My kids won’t be small forever. Once they are gone then I will make the decisions that I need to make.

If you are going to stay just to be a Dad, then I would stop checking up on her. I would just come to the realization that your wife is going to have inappropriate interactions with men. I think she has proven that she isn't going to change her behavior.

Not all marriages can, or should, be saved. Can you deal with a loveless marriage so that you will have full-time access with your kids? If yes, what do you think that will do to you? There are no easy answers here.

In not so many words, I gotta agree with Ark also. She's offering to throw you a bone ("let" you see the e-mail), not actually do the hard work necesasary due to her unfaithfulness.

She definitely does not get it.

gt, have you considered getting counseling to find out why you choose to live with such abuse? This is not about her and hasn't been for some time. This is about a decision to make oneself available to be abused.

All of the "questions" about "decisions" have been asked before. [your posts today are the same as your posts from 3 years ago] The truth is that she has no motivation to change and won't change. She is perfectly happy with the situation so has no reason to change. You are the one with the problem, not her. It is YOU have who has to change here.

Why should she make any decision at all, GT? She is perfectly content with the status quo. If you are unhappy with the status quo, then it is YOU who needs to make a decision. NOT HER. YOU make the decision and YOU act on it. But you don't WANT TO make a decision so you hand it off to someone whom you know will do nothing.

All I can say is that when you really want things to change *YOU* will change things. Until then, this is all talk.