We don't have any kids so I am not sure the Madonna/**** really fits my situation.
******************************

Makes no difference if you have not had children....the complex has been developed for awhile....it is in place while he is dating and when he chooses his wife.
A man CAN overcome it, but it takes work.
What have you and your H done to recover from his affairs so far?

He's also shown her that he has no regard whatsoever for her health and well-being by paying extra for no-condom sex with a wh*re.
*********************************

have you seen the pictures of her?
I am sure we will be seeing LOTS more of her....she will be a celebrity in no time.
More salt to rub int he wounds of Sritzers W and daughters.

He is a pig. BUT, he is no more of a pig than any other person that has stepped out on their spouse. Almost every WS that I have read about here was willing to risk their partners health while they had their own filthy needs met with their affair partner.

There are just as many women that put on the front of being a fine upstanding person in public..and acting like a pig behind the scenes. It doesn't matter the gender...or their position in the public eye...WS are all dirt bags. What he does from this point forward....as what every other WS does after disclosure is what is important. There is not a soul on these boards that doesn't know the devastation of infidelity...there is not a child of ours that hasn't been impacted every bit as much as his children. Sure they have more of a burden to bear in the public eye...BUT, I guarantee you, they will also have a lot more people willing to step up and help them...unlike the forgotten children of so many other affairs that suffer in horrible silence.
There are countless numbers of women out there today..as I write this...that are victimizing their families. They deserve our scorn every bit as much as Spitzer and every other WH.

Let's be careful to remember that this issue is not gender specific. I agree that prostitution is a horrible crime with a lot of victims...it literally sucks. Giving it away for free...getting it for free is no better or worse. It is all horrible.

I don't think he has ever really done anything to recover. I gave him forgiveness because he cried and did not want to leave the house after the affairs but he hasn't changed anything. I come from a family that just believes in staying married no matter what so I didn't really know how to handle it. I would believe he would change because he would act like he was sorry but then the behavior hasn't really changed. He still insists on not sending No contact letters and comes up with excuses not to stop contact with women he calls his friends. So that isn't really anywhere near being recovered. I am filing for LSA and if he wants to show me real changes we will have to go from there.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And so, that makes you like what? The missing link? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


The male monkeys "pay" to see the FEMALE monkey's butt--they were not interested in looking at the butt of another male.
That's ANOTHER experiment! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Spitzer is part of a long line of politicians with fast zippers. You can chaulk up JFK, Lyndon, Fanny Fox mess, and the comment by, (if memory serves) Everett Dirkson to the effect that a good politician has to be able to drink their (Lobbiest) whiskey, take their money and screw their women the night before they voted against them.

Not using a condom is part of the power deal, where he felt he was invulnerable from the mundane that afficts lessor humans.

Some pols screw prostitutes, some screw Lobbiests, both male and female, and some screw women looking for whatever. The later confuses me I guess because I don't understand how women can con themselves into thinking it is anything but being a convenient and temporary hole. Monica is reputed to have said she was going to Washington with her knee pads. Is it all about being close to power?

I have no pity for Spitzer, but I do feel sorry for his wife and kids.

Larry

Monica is reputed to have said she was going to Washington with her knee pads.

Is it all about being close to power?
******************************

Yes, for some it truly is. I have a friend who told her H,
"if Bill Clinton came on to me, I'd **** him, I'd have to he's the president... I may never get an opportunity like that again" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And, it's not like she really liked him or even thought he was handsome.....for some, it really IS about being close to power...that is somehow a turn on for them.
Guess it's not too much different than rock or movie star groupies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

And. . .

Here is Bill O's take on Spitzer. . . O'Reilly thinks Spitzer is self destructive. He may be right.

http://www.billoreilly.com/column;jsessionid=9791937E2833B055F383225E06A7C3ED?pid=23152

Larry

they are all wh0res in their own way Larry...every one of them that screw around...male or female..the famous ones and the ones that let themselves be used.

Maybe I'm conceited, but I've always thought of prostitutes as beneath me...even so-called "high class" escorts aren't anywhere near good enough for me...not even to use as a living receptacle. I can do better on my own.

I've always thought that men who use hookers are either very lazy, or lack the ability to pick up women on their own.

Me? I simply have no need for them. I'm no cheater, but if I was, it would be easy to find a f_ckbuddy on my own. Free of charge.

high class escort would be the epitome of an oxymoron

Exactly.

***********************

and Gentlemen's Clubs.

Mulan, I object to that quote! Pigs are nice animals, and friendly. (Also, pigs do not order pizza.)



Guys, I've been off the MB site for some months now, but it took Spitzer to drive me back on.

Actually, no, not Spitzer so much as the bloggers. I keep hearing about Spitzer's "needs." These aren't "needs" -- they are compulsions, desires, whims, but not "needs."

Need is when you don't have the gas money to car pool your kids from school. Need is when you don't have heating in your house in the wintertime. Need is when you are crawling on your hands and knees through Death Valley and haven't had water for hours.

Have we become so spoiled and self-indulgent as a people that we no longer know the difference? I'm puzzled and alarmed.

I'm also alarmed by the comments from Kristen's family. The mother says she has a "close" relationship with her daughter, yet she didn't know she was a hooker. She said she got into something "over her head." C'mon! She's 22. Didn't someone tell her it's not nice to screw for money? Isn't that rather the job of a mother? I know they are in the spotlight -- but it's everyone's total lack of horror that 22-year-olds from a middle-class homes increasingly turn to ****** for their pin money.

I'm not cracking down on Mrs. What's-her-name -- just on a kind of mindset that seems to have taken hold internationally that it's okay to rent out your genitals if there's a market for them.

Someone wrote on a website that they have had to negotiate for bad jobs with no genital contact and it's "the same." Is it really? Washing dishes in a restaurant is the same as having sex. Huh??????

I'm sooooooo glad I'm not in any relationship at all, if this is the kind of thing one has to deal with in the world nowadays. People don't seem to have any value for the sexuality, for themselves, other than what can be established in a marketplace.

I even find Harley's remarks on p.1 a little discouraging. About how men feel "trapped" by marital promises when their wives aren't available for sex. How about us? If a man has been screaming at you all day, sometimes you're just happy to go to bed and call it a day. The idea of throwing off your clothes and making yourself vulnerable to such a person is the last thing on your mind. How do people become so disconnected from their sexuality that it's something that you do without any context -- like drinking coffee? I don't think it's "normal" -- although it may be commonplace throughout the ages. Sex is one side of us that should be harmonized with our emotions and mind. It's not about finding a particular kind of [censored] or boobs that you like -- it's about finding a person you can love.

For all the people above who talk about how maybe the wife isn't satisfying his "needs" -- suppose a wife (or husband) has cancer and isn't satisfying "needs"? Is it okay to dump him/her for a tootsie or a stud? After all, these are "needs" aren't they? Increasingly, I find that the answer in American society is "yes, it's okay to dump."

Just read an article about the crashing of the American libido. The average American has sex 165 times a year. Huh??? I've been chaste since the end of my marriage. And I know so many women, especially middle-aged women, who can't find anyone nice. So the rest of y'all must be going at it like rabbits. Don't people have hobbies anymore? Has sex become ALL that people are about?

I'm finding the world so discouraging in this regard that it's driven me back to MB to find some fellow-travelers.

It's all so sad.

I found this interesting article on EA's while reading through the paper today.



Emotional infidelity – it's worse
SARAH HAMPSON

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

March 13, 2008 at 3:32 AM EDT

In her fitted pale blue jacket, a double strand of pearls at her neck, Silda Wall Spitzer looked crestfallen as she stood beside her husband, New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, while he made a public apology in Manhattan on Monday after being named as Client 9 in a high-end prostitution ring.

Bad as the news was, and it was a devastating blow to his career and to the couple's family life, it could have been worse for her.

He could have been engaged in an emotional affair.

Emotional infidelity is a relationship in which you are involved in an intercourse of words. There is no sex. You are getting naked only with your feelings. It may feel harmless, but counter to what common wisdom would suggest, it is far more painful for the wronged spouse.

"As a marriage counsellor, I have an easier time healing a couple where someone has had a one-night stand than in a situation where someone is having an emotional affair and never had sex with the person," says M. Gary Neuman, a psychotherapist in Florida and author of several books, including the Oprah-endorsed Emotional Infidelity.

The prevalence of emotional affairs is unquantifiable - who is going to admit to something they feel is harmless? But many therapists suggest that the Internet age of easy online communication encourages people to seek and find emotional outlets outside their marriages. The workplace can also promote emotionally intimate relationships.

"The trend has been that the more women are out in or connected to the world, the more likely they are to have affairs of any kind," says Mira Kirshenbaum, a couples therapist, author and clinical director of the Chestnut Hill Institute in Boston, whose new book, When Good People Have Affairs, will be published this spring. "Women are more likely to have emotional affairs than men, because for many women emotional connection precedes sexual connection," she adds.

Some therapists warn about the dangers of the emotional affair by pointing to the secrecy that can be involved. Say you encountered an old flame online and started a torrid

e-mail exchange with him, would you be likely to tell your spouse? The very act of keeping something from the other in a marriage suggests there is something shameful or wrong.

But a far more damaging effect of an emotionally intense liaison is the energy that is drained from your marriage, says Mr. Neuman, a husband and father of five. Secrecy is not the issue, he explains. One spouse could know of the existence of the "special friend" and still be devastated to discover how much emotional entanglement exists.

"What people need to understand is that we only have so much emotional energy, and the more emotional energy put outside the marriage, the less emotional energy we have within our marriage. It's a simple equation. Once the balance has shifted to where it seems that the majority of your emotional self is outside the marriage and the immediate family, as in spouse and children, then you are playing with fire."

The stress of modern life in a dual-career family, especially when there are children, minimizes the time couples spend with each other, which in turn encourages emotional attachments elsewhere. "It becomes easier to be overwhelmed and never stopping to be really connected to our spouses," Mr. Neuman says.

Mr. Spitzer - a 48-year-old father of three - had the ultimate in what is termed "meaningless sex." It was purely transactional, only worth the thousands he paid for it. When informed by the booking agent for the Emperors Club VIP that Kristen would be the woman who would come to his room at Washington's Mayflower Hotel on Feb. 13, he is reported to have responded, "Great, okay, wonderful."

And then, investigators said, he asked to be reminded what the petite, pretty, 5-foot-5 and 105-pound American looked like. If he had had an assignation with her before, or perused her picture on the club's website, clearly he could not remember. He apparently didn't care who would be his pre-Valentine treat.

"Meaningless sex is a problem. Don't get me wrong," Mr. Neuman says. "But it's far easier for the wife to get over it than if she thinks her husband is in love with another person. And it's easier for the guy, too. He can move on and stop the behaviour more easily than when he is in love with someone else."

Thankfully, when sex is involved, there's the required admission of guilt, which can be cathartic. The cheater gets to express remorse. The wife, in this case, can try to understand why he did it.

"The pain goes down because it becomes more just about the sexual content. It's the emotional content that really hurts," Mr. Neuman says. To recover, the spouse who was sexually unfaithful should tell the other "how and when he did it ... and details that would help her feel secure in the future." The rebuilding of trust may require the one who cheated to make himself or herself available constantly by cellphone.

An emotional affair is far more difficult to verify and police. What counts as evidence? More than half an hour a day of conversation? Up to three e-mail exchanges a night? An added problem is that the spouse who worries that the other is too emotionally engaged with a member of the opposite sex may not want to force a confrontation about the relationship, out of fear of appearing jealous.

Reportedly, Ms. Spitzer was encouraging her husband of 20 years not to resign his position when he was hunkered down in their Manhattan apartment earlier this week, trying to decide on a course of action. Perhaps she understands the significance of his transgression.

After all, in her husband's infidelity, it wasn't his heart he unzipped. It was just his fly.

Well, er, uh, YES. . .

TV, CABLE, Movies, Magazines (Cosmo), books, yes, sex is sold even (especially) in advertisements for all sorts of products. It is a barrage, a deluge of sex, as it were.

The relative difference between purient sales to males is that the milder versions are sold in plain wrappers in convenience stores. Even the steamier versions that appeal to females can be found at WalMart.

Heck, take a look at Desperate Housewives, where one of the "Ladies" is boofing her yardboy.

I am not at all sure what drives women, but I am acquainted with one of the driving forces that afflict males; the prostate, which fills up to the point of spontaneous emmission if not handled correctly from time to time.

Larry

i have to t/j for a moment to say this "medc, i have to tell you, it is RARELY that i disagree with any of your posts. you say it as it is and to me, are very realistic. no sugar coating. you have posted many things that i would loved to have posted, but i guess was concerned with the ensuing backlash! just wanted to say, you most usually write exactly what i myself are thinking. keep up the good HONEST work!"

ok, t/j over.

my 2 cents? some people just always want what they don't have or what someone else has. look at some of the drop dead gorgeous women in hollywood who have had spouses cheat on them. i always wonder "wtf?" she's totally hot, why would a man cheat on her? i dunno. i give up. i do what i do for me, i take care of myself for me, i try to look my best FOR ME. hopefully, one day, that will be enough for a man.

mlhb

Thank you MLHB...baclash...what backlash. Lol!

Hey, why would Hugh Grant cheat on Elizabeth Hurley with a woman that looked like a cross between a man and a crack addict??? Oh, wait...he could.

I appreciate your nice words. And I will keep doing what I do.

This is exactly the kind of thinking I'm talking about. People can't even imagine why Prince Charles would prefer to kick back with Camilla. Because they were evaluating her on a tits-and-[censored] basis. Even those that defended her defended her on the basis of her appearance ("she looks better in person") than her qualities as a human being.

Is it all about fannies and tits? I know to some extent it always has been.

But what about integrity, character? What about ... well, love?

Doesn't it exist anymore beyond passing sexual infatuations? Doesn't it exist beyond sexual attraction?

We are all going to grow old and infirm, unless we die young. Can we count on the one who drops first being dumped so that the significant other can pursue some self-serving fantasy?

I think it is fine to look at it from the T&A perspective when there are no emotions involved(prostitute sex)...Camilla was not a prostitute (well, not a paid one anyway). The EN being met is sex...nothing deep and meaningful.

I don't get your point though...it is ALL about a lack of integrity and character...all of it. Sure love and character should exist beyond attraction...for most they do...