After 9 years of marriage, my Wife just informed me that she has tried and tried to "get back that feeling" for the last two years, but it's only getting worse.
She swears that there is no other man in her life nor has she ever been unfaithful to me/us.
She plans to move into our old house ( that is still on the market ) this summer after the kids have gotten out of school.
She wants us to try to work things out ( financial, child custody, etc etc )on our own before we actually get anything drawn up.
I love my wife deeply but she is certain that it will never work out. We've had our problems over the last two years, which is when she says that she noticed her lack of emotions towards me.
No fighting or arguing at all. Disagreements for certain, but nothing beyond that.
My brother went through this same ordeal just 12 years ago and has warned me to "protect myself".
Worst of all, I just got custody of my 9 year old daughter from a previous relationship ( never married or engaged ) and my wife and I have 3 more wonderful children aged six, four and two.
I don't know what to do to "protect myself" financially as well as make certain I don't lose my children.
I make very good money for my region and nearly triple what she makes at her job, but if she was to "run me over the coals" I would most certainly lose my home I just bought 2 years ago for her and our children ... and quite possibly my oldest daughter.
What can I do ?
Where do I start ... without dragging a lawyer into this ... if at all possible.

Joseph,

Sorry that you have found yourself here. It sounds to me like you do not want a divorce but your wife does and you don't believe there is anything you can do to change her mind. Others here have been in your shoes and have recovered their marriages.

If you do not want a divorce there are some plans here that can help you.

I am going to ask another member to come over here and help you because his situtation reminds me a little bit of yours. He did a Plan A and he has happily recovered his marriage.

There are books that you can order here that can help you with your plan. One is called His Needs Her Needs. It deals with each partners emotional needs and how learning what your spouses most important emotional needs are and then working to meet those needs can greatly work toward improving your marriage.

If you have time you might want to start with the links to the right side of the page called Most Popular Links. Reading the articles on Dr. Harley's Basic Concept, The Most Important Emotional Needs, Love Busters, and The Policy of Joint Agreement will provide you with the basic training of how Marriage Builders works.

Even if you are not able to recover your marriage... learning the concepts of this site will help you in future relationships.

Again, I am sorry you find yourself here... welcome to Marriage Builders. There are many knowledgeable posters here who will be along shortly to help you. I will give a shout out to the other poster I mentioned and hopefully he will be along shortly to help you as well.

Jilly

Hi Joeseph,

Welcome to MarriageBuilders, although I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in.

Can you tell us why your wife has "lost those feelings"? Can she tell you why?

I recommend you start by reading the "Basic Concepts" at this site - there is a link to it in the masthead. Pay attention to the sections on the Love Bank, Love Busters and Emotional Needs.

Many couples get into a rut where they are not meeting each other's Emotional Needs. Husbands and wives commonly have different emotional needs, and many try to show their love for their spouses by meeting the needs they find important themselves. Not meeting ENs means your relationship is stagnating and you are not building up your love.

At the same time, they find themselves "Love Busting" - doing things that tear down the love that has already been built up. Things like making selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, dishonesty are all examples of love busters.

It is highly likely you have been love busting your wife, while failing to meet her most important emotional needs. The Basic Concepts section includes worksheets to help figure out how you are love busting, and you can use them to determine what you've been doing. Once you've determined how you love bust - stop love busting. Once you've stopped love busting, you can attempt to meet your wife's most important emotional needs, but it is important to stop love busting first.

I am suspicious that there may be another man involved, despite your wife's denials. Look into this, discreetly. Don't ask your wife if she is having an affair, because the answer will be meaningless. If she is not having an affair, she will of course answer "no", and if she is having an affair, she will of course lie and answer "no". Instead, investigate. Snoop, if you have to. You have a right to know the truth about your own marriage.

If there is no OM (Other Man) in the picture - and if you go all out to eliminate your LBs (Love Busters) - your wife will notice. Eliminate your LBs and try to meet her ENs, and you should see a positive response of some kind in short order. I'm not saying things will be completely fixed, just that you ought to see a positive response of some kind from her.

If there is another man in the picture... don't despair. These forums have been host to hundreds of betrayed spouses who have managed to win back their wayward spouse. I advise you to read the sections in the Basic Concepts about infidelity and how to deal with it, just in case you are dealing with an affair situation. MB has excellent strategies for fighting affairs.

I was in your shoes three years ago. I found out my wife - of nine and a half years at the time - had been unhappy for years and wanted to divorce me. I found out by snooping her secret email account. I also found out she had an inappropriate relationship with an ex-boyfriend that was dangerously close to an affair. As I read her emails and saw her complaints about me, I recognized that she was right - I had been a bad husband. I had been terribly neglectful and my dishonesty had hurt her badly. Rather than get angry with her, or get defensive and insist I wasn't as bad as she painted me, I realized that if I wanted to remain married than I had to make the marriage something she wanted to keep. I had to give her a reason to stay.

I stopped Love Busting. I had a "cheat sheet", because I'd read all her emails and knew all the things I'd done that had hurt her. So I stopped doing them. I also made a point of trying to do the things I hadn't been doing - of meeting her most important Emotional Needs. Again, I'd seen in her emails her complaints about all the things I didn't do - so I started doing them.

My wife responded very quickly. Within a very short period of time we had "reconnected" and reconciled. The fact that she had not gotten involved in an affair - despite temptation and despite the opportunity to do so - played a big role in how fast things happened. I think that my emphasis on eliminating LBs also made her look at me with fresh eyes. I also had the advantage that she hadn't gotten to the point where she told me she wanted a divorce yet... so her heart wasn't completely hardened to me. Nevertheless... I had been a terrible husband, and if I could turn myself around into an attractive marriage partner, I should think there is hope for anyone.

So... to sum up, start off by reading the Basic Concepts. Figure out how you Love Bust - and stop. Figure out her most important Emotional Needs - and try to meet them. Investigate the possibility of another man.

And keep posting here. This is a great place to get advice - lots of very wise people here.

One last thing... keep your spirits up. You are at the start of a long process. Your marriage won't end tomorrow, no matter what she says, so don't get discouraged and don't give up. This is your marriage too, and you also get to have a say in how things turn out.

I agree with everything said, and will reiterate: Don't give up! Many couples lose that spark, but it can easily be built back up. You start with making yourself a better person, be the person she wants to come home to. Then you learn more about her. And act on that knowledge. Start talking to her more. Ask her about herself. Ask her how she feels that your daughter has entered the picture. Ask her what she envisioned ten years ago, and how things have turned out for her. Ask her what else she could possibly do with her life and then see what you can do to help her achieve that. Many people just drift apart and take each other for granted. Get back to the excitement of learning about each other when you were dating.

With all those kids, there are a lot of ways you can re-invigorate your lives doing stuff together. Go online and see if there's a source of activities in your area. Start doing fun stuff together, get out of your rut. Be the family she always hoped for.

That said, you really need to protect yourself, in case she has met someone who just seems...better than you. She may not have acted on it (or she may), but just putting that thought in her head may make her start not liking what she's got any more. You are entitled to snoop to save your marriage. Especially when she's already said she's leaving. If she is into someone else, you can't trust anything she says, she's in a fog, and you'll have to take different steps than the above.

Keep up posted.

You are correct, I don't want this divorce at all. No matter the problem, my marriage is of the highest priority to me. I guess it's been instilled in me by my parents who just this last summer celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary. Marriage should last a lifetime ... I took vows before God and family to love honor and cherish ... and I take those vows seriously.


I havn't a clue and she doesn't know why either.
My first guesses to her mood swings/changes were chemical ... thyroid, chemical imbalance, etc etc ... but we've had those checked and everything came back normal.
My wife works in a large factory setting where the majority of the workers are 18-35 year old males. She is one of 6 other females outside of the office personnel that work there. the other 300+ employees are male. Up until after our last child was born, her dress habits were conservative and she rarely ever wore makeup. Now, and for the last 2 years in particular, she styles her hair, puts on full makeup, and dresses in skin-tight low-rider jeans with thong under garments. Three years ago she didn't even own a pair of thongs. She tells me that she's trying to feel better about herself. She is constantly trying new things to "make herself happy".
I'm at a loss. Her attitude towards our children has never changed. She is loving and attentive to the children and has absolutely no regrets about having them.
She has admitted to me that other workers have "expressed a desire to date her" but at the same time tells me that she plans to never get married again because she doesn't want to go through falling out of love again.


Prior to her request for a divorce on the 25th, she had been talking about us all going camping this summer, taking a vacation or two, going out west for a week or so, quitting her job after school was out, having more time for family functions. Seems that all went by the wayside quite quickly. I already mentioned to her that I would still like to have the family go camping this summer ... she responded that I could still take them on my weekends with the kids and she would take them during the week when she was off from work. ( she works Fri, Sat, Sun, & Mon every week ) She has no intention of spending a vacation with me along.
After the 25th her affections dropped of to nothing immediately.
No more kisses ( pecks on the lips were about it for almost two years now ) no more hugs ... and the "I love you" before and after work, phonecalls, etc ... stopped.

I have been reading alot here, starting with the Basic Concepts. I've printed off two copies of the Emotional Needs Questionaire and set it on my desk at home ... in the hopes that my wife will try to save our marriage with me.
I also ordered "His Needs, Her Needs for Parents" as well as "Love Busters". They should be here next week.
I have the weekend off from work while she is at work. Friends of ours from the next town over are coming over with their kids to visit on Saturday. They've just gotten through a rough time in their relationship, so I'm hoping they can shed some light or even just get her to think it over again.

Thanks so much for all the input and positive outlooks ... it helps to raise my spirits.

Man
My wife no longer loves me. But it seems to be a gradual thing. I thought there may be another guy, but I can't find any evidence.

This seems to be pretty sudden. That is really weird.

I would begin to snoop. I got a feeling there may be a 'PERFECT GUY' in the pic.

Have you snooped yet? Everything you describe - no matter WHAT she says - is exactly what someone having an affair says and does. Have you read threads over in Infidelity? You'll recognize your wife over and over again. Seriously, if you want to save your marriage, you will snoop. If you find something, you can do something about it. But if you deny the possibility, it's like you're bailing out your boat full of holes. Every person I've seen come here who ends up with a spouse with an affair, starts out by saying I'm sure he/she would never do it. Or he/she says so, so I believe him/her. Please protect your marriage by snooping. If you find nothing, then you can work on other issues. But at least you'll know.

Yes, I've been snooping for nearly 7 months now ... documenting everything for reference.
* Hours at work compared to actual paid hours on her paycheck.
* What time she would pick up the kids from the sitter after work to verify time at work.
* Cell phone records to check for unknown numbers for long periods of time. ( the phones are in her name ... so my access is limited to online records )
* Mileage on the vehicles to verify to-from work miles driven.
* e-mails

I cannot say I've checked everything ... a person can always miss something.
What I can verify is that everything checks out ... except her text messaging from last summer.
An unknown number she would message back and forth 4-6 times within a few minutes in a single day ... then nothing for a month.
Then, one text out to that number ... one back a day or two later. This went on from last July to November. Once a month - One text message out and then one back a day or two later.
Everything in or out was erased from her phone but records of the calls are in the online records. It's Verizon, and I've already tried to get a printoff of the messages sent/recieved ... they told me that they do not save them after a given period of time ( 30 days ? ) so I couldn't get them.
No calls to or from that number since November.
The number is an unlisted cell based in a town 60 miles north of us. Back in August she did admit to me that she was physically attracted to another guy at work that lived in the same town as the unlisted cell. Again she offered no name.

Oddly enough, she doesn't have this mystery number in her phone directory ... even her own parents phone number is in there ... so it's not like she only puts numbers in her directory that she cannot remember.

She sent one HUGE video message back in November ... about 30+ megs ... to which she recieved ( and kept ) the reply of "Thanks".
Nothing since then.
She claimed that the unknown number was one of the older guys she works with that she feels comfortable talking to about her problems. She said it was his birthday, so she sent him a happy birthday greeting. No name given and no offer to introduce me.

Just for reference, I havn't recieved a birthday, Christmas, Anniversary, or Fathers Day card from my wife in nearly 2 years.
And she has never texted me ... ever.

That's the only descrepancy I've ever found with anything she's done or said ... but it was enough to make me wonder.

It's been some time since the mystery number appeared on her phone, so I'm willing to believe that whoever it belongs to isn't the reason for her divorce request.

Joseph,


You are probably going to need to snoop to find out if your wife is having an affair. The term EA (emotional affair) describes a relationship outside of your M (marriage) where they have romantic inappropriate feelings for each other but have not yet taken it to the next level. A PA (physical affair) is an inappropriate R (relationship) outside of your M where they have a physical/sexual relationship.

How to snoop... there are some good spying threads on the General Questions II and Just Found Out forums in the infidelity part of this board. I will try to link the Spying 101 thread here for you.

A couple of places where most people find out that there spouse is cheating in some way is either through their emails or IM's on the computer or cell phone bill statements. Do you have access to your wife's computer? If she has a secret email account or other online communication it can be tracked using what is known as a keylogger. A keylogger will capture screen shots which will allow you to get her password for any accounts she may have.

Whatever you do don't confront her about any of this yet. Find out first... so if she is cheating you have proof that she cannot deny... cause that is what people in A's (affairs) do.

She might not be having an affair yet... but with the way things sound with her with one foot out the door already it is only a matter of time if she is not already involved in an A that she likely will be.

Good job on getting started with the reading materials. You also might want to get the book Surviving an Affair. Even if your W (wife) is having an A it still doesn't mean that your M is over. If you find out she is cheating on you it will be devastating but many many people here have been in your shoes, and have made the choice to fight for their M. Bar none this is the best pro marriage forum you will find in cyberspace.

It is also possible that your wife isn't having an A but might be having a MLC (mid life crisis). There are people here who have survived that too and recovered there M's.

In addition to the support you receive here on the message board, there is also phone counseling available from the Harley's. They will work with you individually to develop a plan and then later with both of you once your wife makes a choice to commit to your M.

I know it can seem like an awful lot to take in right now... it is. There is hope as long as YOU want to save your M.

There are lots of people who fought long and hard whose situations seemed absolutely hopeless and they are now happily in recovery.

Hang in there. There are many people here who will help you through this process.

I will edit this post if I can find the link for the spying thread.

Take Care,
Jilly

Joseph,

A person can be having an affair with someone at work without ever actually spending time alone with them away from the job. An Emotional Affair, or EA, can cause as much trouble, and often more, for a marriage as a Physical Affair (PA).

The trouble arises from the fact that a person becomes emotionally invested with someone more than it does from the physical aspects any way.

Never heard of a man wanting to leave his wife for the hooker he had sex with while working out of town for three months, but these boards are full of folks whose spouse was on the verge of or even filed for divorce over someone they never actually met other than on line.

I have to tell you that most affairs, especially for women, begin as something much different that sex on the side. What usually happens is that a connection is made through conversation, often beginning with normal work day stuff, then progressing to discussions of the respective marriages and a sharing of intimate details and thoughts. This too, openness and honesty, is one of the ten most basic emotional needs and usually ranks much higher for women than for men.

Long before any physical connection takes place in the relationship, the person starting down this road has begun to justify what they are doing. They say (at least to themselves) things like "We're just friends." "We just seem to understand each other." We only share our thoughts about our own marriages." These things sound benign, but as the emotional needs of one or both are being met by the other, the Love Bank is being filled until it passes the critical romantic threshold and feelings we call love begin to be felt. This is an affair at this point. Though even the now wayward thinking person might not recognize it as such, it has exactly the same affect on the marriage as if they had run off to spend the week together at a B&B in Vermont.

Now realize that I am not saying that your wife is locked in an affair that is sordid and secret, only that if there is someone she calls "friend" at work, seems to spend long hours with him while ignoring you, perhaps having phone calls and TM sessions with him and trying to blow smoke at you about what they are discussing and the like...You need to begin doing something right now to turn things around or they will be spending a week together at a B&B in Vermont...

Learn about Plan A, which is really about learning to meet her ENs while identifying love busters in your own actions and eliminating them.

At the same time, begin to let her see the changes you are making to yourself. Do not point them out to her, just let her see them happen. Begin to intrude into this fantasy world in some way. Maybe show up at her job to take her to lunch, or send flowers to her there. Make yourself known as her devoted and loving husband.

Based on what you have said, if you asked her to never have any contact with this friend, whether the one she says it is or some other guy you know nothing about, my guess is that you would find yourself in the fight of your life. Because once that road is started down, the way a person feels when with their affair partner (even when it is not yet physical) is an addiction in the very real sense of the word. And like any addict, when the source of that feeling is threatened, the addict will explode in rage and say and do anything to ensure the next fix. If she responds that you are being irrational and she should be allowed to have some guy as a friend and it is not really your business who she is friends with...and all of that kind of stuff...Rest assured that what I have described is what has taken place.

My wife asked for a divorce over a guy she never had sex with, knew within days of meeting him that he was a serial cheater, an alcoholic with a severe drinking problem and a temper that had gotten him arrested more times than she could count...But you have to know that had I not discovered it, confronted her and taken specific action I learned from this website and the books written by Dr Harley, I would not be married today and they would have had sex together before another month had passed.

Do NOT take these things lightly. If there is a pattern of spending time talking with, communicating with and "sharing" with a guy from work, just believe me when I say that if she spends less time talking to you, communicating with you and sharing with you, you have a problem.

I have a couple of links for you and I would suggest that you check them out before you just drop it as me being a lunatic or something of that sort (though some here might say that would be an accurate assessment.)

Not Just Friends

The Affair You Don't Know You're Having

Also be sure you have read the Basic Concepts Basic Concepts

Mark

I agree with Mark. She is having an EA. Any time a spouse says 'he is someone I can talk to about my problems' - she's talking about you! YOU are her problem! And he is filling her Love Bank, whether or not she's ever even had lunch with him, let alone slept with him. He may not even be aware how she feels, but given all the texting, I'm pretty sure he's enjoying it, though. There may be nothing going on, but he's getting his ego stroked by her attention.

Start showing up at her work to take her to lunch. Send flowers. Change everything about how you deal with her. Become the man she would choose if she had to choose all over again. Talk to her about herself - personal talk, like has her life turned out how she thought, what else would she do, what ticks her off, who's she voting for...just start talking! She needs to talk, and she's getting that from him.

See if there's anyone at her work you know fairly well (who will be indiscreet for now) who you can ask about this guy and her. Tell them you're trying to save your marriage, and can they tell you if they feel anything is happening, even if it's innocent.

Joeseph,

One thing comes to mind... investigate the possibility she has a TracPhone or other inexpensive, pre-paid cellphone to use exclusively for this kind of thing.

One former poster's ex-WW had a trac-phone in her purse that she used just for the affair. Her OM gave it to her.

Joeseph: I also would recommend more snooping. My H gave me the "I don't think I want to be married" speech and for the life of me, I never would've thought he'd have an A. We were best friends,never fought and nothing gave me the feeling that he was unhappy until he dropped that bombshell in Sept. We talked and began working to renew our marriage but there was still something "wrong". I began snooping in Dec. and found receipts for gifts that on Christmas Day I did NOT receive. Only then did he confess that he'd been having an affair for a year with a woman he'd met online. I truly believe that if I had not found those receipts, he would still be having his A. He was living for the excitement of having that second secret life.
I never thought my H was an expert at hiding things but he turned out to be quite good at it. He'd take $$ out of our joint acct. at $20-$40 every week and claim it was for gas, but he was saving it. He used bday money from his father towards his A too but he found an OW who liked spending the $$ on his services. He took days off work and those trips to go flyfishing turned out to be days for them to get together. I knew his funny business was thru his Yahoo acct. and I couldn't break his password but I changed his aol password and was able to find some history and discovery from there. Now I snoop regularly. It's gonna be a long time till I trust him again. I have searched his car, his wallet, everything. I hate to have to be like this, but he brought it on himself.

An update.

The wife came home yesterday and seemed to be in a genuinely good mood. Smiling and happy with the children ... and even a bit more relaxed around me.

About 20 minutes later, the wife actually came over and stood closer to me than she had in months. She was reading the paper, and looked over at me with a faint tear in her eye, and told me "Don't give up on me yet".
I responded that I've never given up on us.

She then informed me that she has been talking about her problems to the two people at work that I would likely care for the least ... because one is the guy that makes obvious passes at my wife ( comments about her tight jeans and [censored] ... she says it's just in fun because he loves his wife and she's not attracted to him anyway ) and the other is the guy she'd admitted to me during the summer that she was attracted to. His wife left him and their 2 children 2 years ago and now his wife wants him back because "she made a mistake". He doesn't want her back.
Apparently my wife also informed him that his wife was crazy to have left him because he is such a great guy ... and she admitted to him yesterday that she was attracted to him.
As to anything coming of that, I don't know.
On the bright side ... if there is one here ... she did tell me about it and is not trying to hide it from me.

She then informs me that the guy she is/was attracted to ( still no name ) has a good head on his shoulders and gives good advice. He told her that he wants our marriage to work out and that she needs to work on herself before she can work on us. He believes that she is going through a mid-life crisis ... so now she does too. I'd mentioned that to her before but my opinion wasn't taken seriously. Perhaps I'm too close to the problem to be considered valid ?

So now I have to contend with the fact that my wife is getting counseling from two guys at work ... and one of them appears to be a prime candidate for her to fall in love with from the deposits to her "love bank" he's making.

Perhaps he really is a great guy that is simply trying to help our marriage.
Perhaps not.

My doubt lies in the fact that she has never told me his name nor offered to introduce us ... he is to remain anonymous to me.
That she feels more comfortable talking to him rather than me is disturbing at the least and causes me to worry all the more.
I've tried to relay this feeling to her without actually saying it, only to upset her and hear her say "this is why I don't tell you about anything at work".

At this point it seems it would be wise not to voice any opinion or concerns about anything she has to say ... lest I invoke more ire. Assuming that she offers to tell me anything more in the first place.

Back to square one
Go directly to the dog house
Do not pass go
Do not collect 200 dollars

Joseph,

I am sorry about the new developments. You are right to be concerned about this.

This guy is NO friend to your marriage.

Is your wife still living at home?

Find out everything you can and start Plan A. You might want to copy and paste your posts to the General Questions II section. That forum is the most active, gets the most traffic, and has many experienced posters who can help guide you with how to get started on a Plan A.

Plan A is about showing your wife that you are the MOST attractive option for her. Plan A is about meeting as many EN (emotional needs) as your wife will let you and eliminating as many LB (love busters) as you can.

Do you have access to your wife's computer? You need to start digging around to find more.

What she told you about guy number two is an EA (emotional affair).

Your instinct and feelings of doubt are reasonable. Of course she doesn't want to tell you anything about work... if the tables were turned you can bet she wouldn't like you confiding with women at work about the problems in your M. She has already admitted that she is attracted to this guy which tells you that you are also correct that he is making deposits in her love bank.

Please repost your situation in GQII. There are many Plan A experts there. Look for a poster named Mimi_Here. She is a master at Plan A.

Don't give up. Your wife has even asked you NOT to give up yet. This is not over yet... time to roll up your sleeves and start the fight to save your M.

Jilly

Excuse me

That dirtbag at work is the classic "put your head on my shoulder" type dude. You know, the sensitive helping guy, who looks like he cares and only cares about bedding your wife. Beware that guy.

Your wife is playing you. SHe wants you. ANd she wants the attention these guys are giving her. And this attention WILL LEAD TO an affair or a slam bam. I'm shaking my head here on how hideous one spouse can be to another. And this coming from a sheetitly treated spouse himself!!