Hi all,

Haven't been here in a while.

I live with my fiance and was out of town with my children this past weekend. While I was away, fiance decides to invite a friend over that just blew into town. (a woman - but I know there is no romance) Also he invites a couple that we know - his bachelor days buddy who used to act like he owned my fiance's former house (reason we moved) and run the bar during parties. The out of town woman asks to bring out two of her relatives whom I've never met.

This was a little weird to me because it was starting to shape into a party. Suspiciously, he cleaned the whole house top to bottom that morning but the invitations were purely spontaneous.

But ok, whatever. He's talking to me on the phone telling me this when he hits the playback on the house phone and there is a message on the machine from a woman who is no longer invited to my (our) house because she tried to get into a physical fight with me on new year's eve this year. (long story but I didn't start anything and then walked away when she tried to turn it into a physical fight)

Fiance thinks this all a big misunderstanding, but she won't say she did anything wrong - not even to say she drank too much. Some of his friends give me no respect and are never nice to me even when they're drinking my booze and eating my food.

Fast-forward. Fiance stops the message and refuses to play it when I ask him repeatedly just to play it. I'm not mad.

It occurs to me that the out of towner and this woman are best friends and she would want to come by too if the out of towner was there. And, of course, the out of towner would tell her where they were all meeting up.

He refused to play it then he tells me he panicked and hit the delete button. When I got home the next day, the message was deleted and his cell phone log was cleared.

(yes I snooped - don't forget what we all came here for in the first place)

Anyway, is it ok to throw a party when the partner is out of town?

How many folks does it take to make it a party and not just a friend or two hanging out?

Should I forgive the woman for being drunk and going postal on me?

Am I alone in thinking it suspicious that he would not play the message and then erased his phone log?

I am thinking that he was going to say she showed up unexpectedly and it was too late to do anything.

This really stinks to me - anyone else?

Sunny

Sunny, it is weird. The whole thing is weird. Why not just meet up for drinks? There are a couple of kinds of parties I can see happening when the fiance or spouse is out of town. The first is a child's birthday party. Another is a ladies' tea. Another is poker night for the guys. None of these is a bunch of men and women, some of whom aren't welcome in your home.

Your instinct is right on. Now the question is what are you going to do about it?

uuuhhh yeah. You have reasons to be concerned.

Red Flag: not playing the message.

Red Flag: that there even WAS a message to be played!

Red Flag: cleaning prior to an impromtu party....right.

Red Flag: erased call log.

Red Flag: all happens when you are out of town.

Red Flag: you do not like his friends, and his friends do not seem to like you.

How are you going to resolve this? Is he open to discussing it? Is POJA a part of your relationship? I think you need to introduce that at the very least...

Thanks for the responses. I'm just upset because he seems dishonest about this whole thing. And it seems so childish to wait until I am out of town and invite a bunch of people over - even if it were spontaneous it gives the impression that he can't normally do it when I'm home.

He is now saying that he will tell the NYE woman that he can't be her friend anymore. (I told him that I never wanted to come between him and his long time frienships - so there was no reason he couldn't meet up with them somewhere else)

I get along with and even love to be around a larger set of his friends. This small subgroup of his friends have been the biggest reason we ever fight for all of our relationship.

His ex-wife that used to use the ex-house like a hotel for extended stays a couple of times a year.

The guy friend who would bring his sleepover clothes whenever we had a party so that his wife could go to bed while he stayed up all night. (I want the music off and I want to go to bed at a reasonable hour - 2am is more than reasonable for a party)

The woman from NewYear'sEve who used to stay at his house for weekends because her parents wouldn't want her boyfriend sleeping at their house where she lived.

These people were all leeches and part of the super-special decoder ring club and none of his other friends like them or are accepted into the club by them. What they have in common is their leechiness, selfishness, and lack of anything worthy to do with their time so that they were available when fiance was lonely before he got a life with me.

sigh

sunny

It all seems so very juvenille!

Throw a party when Mom is out of town. Hide the evidence. Then if you get busted, only fess up to what you absolutely have to.

Its just frustrating and disappointing to be put in the role of Mommy. I think your fiance is a little bit dishonest with you.
I think he says what you want to hear, but then goes behind your back to do whatever he wants.

I agree he is giving them the impression that you are the police.

Sunny, I agree with Lexxxy in spades. Plus, I think this "teenager rebelling against parent" runs through a lot of your other posts about his friends as well. It's disturbing.

Have you all set a date?

GG,

Probably should give him his ring back because I won't set a date.

Sunny

GG,

I should say by way of explanation that fiance doesn't really like going out. He builds entertainment areas into his house(s) and invites people over. His was the "party house" for years and I would bet that there was a lot of nostalgia involved in his invitation to these folks to come over. It would feel like old times.

His complaint: that I'm forcing him to be someone he's not.

My reply - that he chose to change his lifestyle and he knew that the changes would be dramatic.

This is more like the desparation of mid-life crisis. Trying to relive his past.

GG I don't know what to do about it. I put my foot down and told him how I felt about him entertaining when I am out of town. That what he tried to do was really different than a few guys playing poker or watching TV. And that I didn't believe him because he put a lot of effort into cleaning things up and then later into trying to cover things up. Sleazy.

He told the NYE woman that she is not invited to the house anymore. (This is the first time that he told her this - before he just tried to tell her that we were upset with her)

She continues to say that she was angry at someone else and I just mis-read who she was angry with.

(I asked fiance why she shouldered me into the wall if she was angry at someone else - twice)

Anyway - this just feels too familiar. I get ticked at him for doing something he KNOWS is a bad idea and then he scrambles for a little while to make things better. I'm tired.

sunny

Methinks the teenager rebelling wanted to get caught by you.
He left enough hints, didn't he.
You've had reservations about him for a very long time.
He did what you wanted by selling the old house and moving into a new house with you.
Have you guys been to counseling or through the MB principles?
Is this really what you want in life?
I had concerns before but now?
Trust your instincts.

Isn't he right?

He has been the single party guy for as long as I can remember, so I don't know why the surprise that he is still the same guy.

AGG

Your comment isn't quite right. He didn't choose to change his lifestyle. He is telling you that he feels forced by you to change his lifestyle.

Think about it...did you?

You want him to be someone he isn't.

JMHO
committed

one of the biggest red flags to me is that he is completely disrespecting your boundaries. he knows what nye woman did and yet he still wants to be friends with her? you forbid her in your home because of it and yet, when your back is turned he was going to let her in?

i've dated people with the "2 sets of friends" thing and it is NOT cool.

doesn't sound like much has changed since last you were here. i am sorry for that. why are you choosing this man? why do you let it continue? why do you allow yourself to be disrespected? he is obviously not going to change nor does he want to. i think you are very smart not to set a date!

i think the whole thing is juvenile and a complete disrespect of YOU.

mlhb

I appreciate your comment. He confessed to me after we had been dating for a while that his friends and his lifestyle choices needed to change. I think that as with any huge change it takes baby steps and time.

Sunny

Thanks mlhb. I told him this very thing about being disrespectful myself. I even told him that when he allows his friends to disrespect me that it gives them the message that it is ok with him. That he should directly tell this person how much pain she causes the two of us.

I think she may have been his confidant when he was unhappy. If you know how that goes, the confidant gets a very negative impression because a lot of times you discuss things that are a problem and not all the great things.

Which is probably the same imrpession I give this board. There are a lot of lovely times that I don't come here to share, which I probably should to balance the times when I'm upset and need reassurance that I am sort of normal in my expectations.

In order for me not to have responsibility for him "losing" a friend, I asked that he just continue his friendship elsewhere with my full knowledge rather than resent me for telling him not to have this friend.

In the last year since we moved, his friends that I don't tolerate well have not been over to "hang out". The one time we did host a small hang out by the pool, we neglected to invite one of the inner circle of secret decoder ring peoples and that "snub" led to the whole NYE thing. The NYE woman is best friends with the snubbed woman and probably let it out that we were having a few people over for a pool day.

Frankly, he says he is breaking off both friendships and I couldn't be happier. The whole inner circle thing is made up of the folks that have made both of us miserable.

It's funny because we had started to reach a place where we were both feeling peaceful and happy and then the friends intrude again.

Sunny

If I've learned anything this past year, it's that people can only intrude on your life if someone in the couple allows them to...they don't do it on their own.

I know there are a lot of good times, Sunny. And everyone has some rough patches.

I've only been engaged for about six months. So, M and I have been together for... 2.5 years. And, we do have some rough times, but they are short lived, and don't involve disrespect and boundary violation.

Also, it sounds like your fiance may be trying to force himself out of a behavior that he's not really ready to give up.

Why did it need to change?

Because he had outgrown them?

Because he wanted to do it "for" you?

Because he thought he only stood a chance with you if he made a mature move like that?

Something precipitated his comments...what was it?

When he said that you are forcing him to be someone he is not, he is telling you that he is changing for you and he doesn't like it.

committed

AND...in the process of that, he is blaming you. That's why he made the comment of you trying to force him to be something he is not.

JMHO
committed

I used to think it was "wrong" for someone to change for their partner. Or to ask someone to change for you.


I do not think so anymore. Because of MB.
Isn't that what Plan A is all about? Recognizing that changes may need to be made to meet the needs of your partner.

If Sunny's fiance recognizes this is a change that he needs to make, and has been willing to make -- then perhaps this was just a backslide of sorts. Maybe it will reinforce his commitment to changing.

I also think it is perfectly OK to ask your partner to remove people from their lives that do not support your relationship.
And NYE woman clearly fits that description.

The key is that he needs to be WILLING and ENTHUSIASTIC about the changes -- and not just doing it because he "had" to.

Sunny, only you would know what his level of sincerity and commitment is to changing this part of his lifestyle. But some of his comments would bother me. And him putting you in this authority-figure role would bother me too. Hopefully this is something you can discuss and overcome!

I agree...any outside force that is toxic to the well being of your relationship must be removed. I told my H that keeping the OW around was like going in to have a cancerous mole removed and only requesting 99% be removed. Why leave the 1% there to festor and make troubles for the future? Get the toxic out completely.