Hello everyone;
Long story short. I have been married for 18 years now. We have 3 children, 17,13 and 4 years old.
I am ashamed to say that I was the one who cheated. We had a loooots of problems in our marriage that contributed to the A(not an excuse though). I do not want to go over our problems before the A because I really do not want to talk bad about him, it does do me or him any good, unless it's needed by you guys in order to receive feedback, thoughts or advice.
Before I continue I just want to clarify that I know the A was 100% my responsibility and that I am in no way, shape or form blaming my husband for that.
The thing is that I do not know if we are in recovery or what? I feel like if we are "on hold", let me explain.
First of all I want to say that he caught the e-mails that me and the OM used to send eachother. He uploaded them to his e-mail and he still reads them!!!
I have asked him and begged him to erase them, I have told him that he is hurting and torturing himself. That there is no way he is going to heal if he continues to do this.
He says that he continues to read them because it gives him courage to do what he's gotta do.
He refuses to go to a professional counselor and he also refuses to be counseled or even talk to anybody.
He found out about my last contact with OM in DEC of 2006.
I immediately started engaging in our marriage. I had no problem with the symptoms of withdrawal...never. I started plan A, without knowing it existed, I was being counseled by women at church.
He went to sleep to our kid's room since then. During 2007 his actions were typical of a person that has been betrayed, hurt, ashamed, belittled...etc. He started withdrawing from me immediately after he found out.
The problem is that he never vented!! to anybody!! He did not talked to anybody during the first 10 months of 2007, and because of this his resentment towards me build up inside of him and somedays he couldn't even stand being beside me.
I want to say that he has NEVER abused me, nor disrespected me (except 2 times when he was drunk, he has been very kind to me having in mind what I did.

My issues are; He does has very extreme changes of behavior, for days we are having SF and then all of a sudden he changes to a not very kind person....is this because of the triggers?
Another issue is that he is still not sleeping with me, I really do not understand why. At first I understood that he did not wanted to stay with me, and that is why I had been patient. This really hurts me a lot because he closes the door, our two little ones most of the time want to be inside with him.
There has been times when that has really hurt me a lot. Whenever he closes the door I start to cry because I feel like he is leaving me out of his world, out of his life. Another thing about this is I used to feel like if he was taking my two little ones away from me, because whenever I come home from work he already has the door closed and our kids are already inside with him. Me and my older kid have the whole house to ourselves!!
I know this is not good for our kids....I know we are not sending the right message!! But if I tell him this, he will say "whenever you were doing what you where doing you didn't think about them either" I do not know what to answer because I know he is right!!
It has been very hard during the past 15 months.
I get out of work at 7:00 pm but sometimes I do not even want to come home, I am afraid....afraid because I do not know how is he, afraid the he has the door closed, afraid to look at his face, afraid to talk to him, afraid of being rejected, afraid because I do not know if this is a good day or a bad day.. I always pray on the way home, but sometimes that doesn't help.

I know my husband and I know immediately when I see him if this is a good or bad day. The thing is that he has had the "angry expression" for the past 15 months. I miss my other hubby!! the one that was not perfect but was compassionate and merciful.
I know I brought this unto my self and believe me I am not whining.....I do not take for granted that he is still with me and that this is literally a miracle from God.
For those of you who believe in God, I just want to say that I know God has a plan for us because he keeps on telling me through his word to wait on him...to walk in faith.
I love my husband so much and I hurt when I see him hurting. I have seen him cry, I have seen him frustrated, angry, dissapointed, furious.
Now, don't get me wrong, everything is not bad. Because on the good days (thank God we have more good days that bad days)
I have felt his love, his affection. We have a pretty "normal" relationship, we go out with our kids, we talk a little, we go to school together, we visit my family together, we visit my MIL and FIL together whenever they are in city, because whenever they are in Dallas, he doesn't want to take me...he says he wants to go by himself.....why???
I love my hubby so much, I just want to understand and get advice to help him heal...I am desperate, I feel that I am at the end of the rope!!!
Any thought would be very appreciated.

A.

A couple of things that jumped out at me...

First, I want to compliment you on recognizing where the responsibility is for the affair. It's too easy to get in the mindset of "Well, it wouldn't have happened if he had done..." which softens the blame and makes it sort of both your faults. While he surely had some part in the situation, the fact that you are willing to take responsibility shows that it won't happen again.

What does he feel he needs to do? How are they giving him courage? To me the only thing they would do would be to give him courage to end the marriage, not to help fix it. You have to find out if that is the direction he is committed to rather than fixing things.

I'm always concerned when I see anyone who says they "refuse to talk to anyone". Why does he refuse? Does he think it's insulting or wrong to see a counselor? I'm sure that is part of the mindset for some people who are afraid to go.

Not sure here. From my own experiences, Anger is exhausting. I could guess that maybe he is weakening in his anger and enjoying being with you. Then suddenly he realizes that he was unconsciously forgiving you. When he realized that, he is angry because he feels he shouldn't and stirred the anger up again inside. Be careful of the moods, but let him feel them. Don't let him treat you badly, but understand where it comes from. It's like a child throwing a temper tantrum. Firmly say what you will and won't allow, but be gentle since it is his anger slowly escaping. Just don't let him treat you badly since you don't deserve that. This should be about forgiving you and regaining trust in you, NOT about "punishing" you.


Don't allow that to continue. It's not fair to the children and will create a divided house. If the door is closed, open it, come in and do something gentle without saying a word. Give him a kiss on the cheek, say you missed hearing/seeing him and if he wants to come join you for TV, Reading, whatever, you are downstairs.

It allows him to be alone without actually being alone. Just recognize that he will get up and shut the door dozens of times so it's going to be exhausting for you, but keep at it. When I'm angry at my wife, I've told her, don't try to argue or fix anything or whatever. Just come over, kiss me on the cheek and my anger starts to melt. I just need time to let it vent away and this is him holding onto his pain and anger. The more you gently probe the boundaries the more you will break through. The trick is to do it gently enough that he doesn't build up harder defenses and pull away.

Yep. He is right. You didn't think of them when the affair happened. However, that holds not basis for what is happening now. The fact is that he is clutching at the children to replace the emotional connection that you should be providing. They are very likely his "security blanket and teddy bear" making him feel better during this nightmare. The problem is that as long as his emotional needs are fulfilled by them, he won't move beyond that. You being close by and there will slowly let him remember the emotional needs he got from you and start to explore them again letting go of his current "safety net" they provide.

All you can do at a point when he says that is to validate his feelings. Simply tell him, "Yes. You are right. I didn't think of you and them, and I'll live with that realization for the rest of my life. However, I am thinking of them and you now and we have to make sure that together we don't hurt them like this. Will you help me take care of them?" or something similar.

I hope my thoughts help a little...

SG,
Your thoughts helped me alot. Thank you for your reply. Here are some answer to your questions.

The first months, he would say that he wanted to leave me. That he wanted a divorce but now I have asked him and he says he doesn't know. So I have no idea.....he doesn't like to talk about all this situation.
You know how they say that we (WS) need to be open and honest about everything....I would looove to be able to answer his questions...the thing is, he doesn't question anything.....he has asked me 2 or 3 question but I did not answer them because he was drunk...I will not reason with him under this those conditions.

First of all he has had a hard time with this. He does not open up to anybody, never,not even with me before the A. This is the way he was brought up. Second I am assuming that if he goes to counseling he is giving me the message that he is forgiving me and that he is willing to work on the marriage. This is just his pride there.

Exactly!!! you hit the nail on the head. But you know, this is getting to me real bad becuase even though I understand his motives, I feel that when he is on his "good days" we are ok and we even have SF, but the next day when he starts thinking and analizing this, he changes and now he is on one of those "bad days" and then he doesn't want to look at me much less be with me.
I see it like this: One day he wants to be with me, share with me and even have SF with me, the other, he doesnt want to talk to me. Like, one day he uses me and the other he throws me away.
I know is not like that....believe me...most of the time I am able to deal with this but I have my "bad days" too, like today, I could not sleep, I went to his room (my kid's) and stayed there in the couch.
I went there because I started to feel afraid....afraid of my emotions, afraid of what I was thinking....I was thinking that it will be better if I was not here (you know what I mean?) I have had this thoughts before but tonight were stronger.... I started crying very hard...because I am alone in my bedroom he could not hear me...I went over to where he is sleeping at.
After hours of sitting on the couch, I finally lay down beside him on the bed, I told him that I was afraid, but I guess he was too sleepy to realize what I am going through.


He still feels entitled to punish me and we have talked about that a little, but he is very stubbord and very narrow minded.

I have been doing this believe me, I have tried my best. And I have been seeing changes in him, even my girlfriend (shes acting as my spiritual guidance) is saying that she is really happy about his changes. But it has been very, very slow.
I am still willing to wait on him, to do everything to help him heal, recover our M but it seems to me that the "bad days" are very very bad...and I am getting tired emotionally.
How do I control that?

A.

Have you asked him what he would require for restitution? Some tangible, visible, even symbolic act by you that might help him reach a crossroads, maybe toward forgiveness, or at least acceptance?

Wow-- Angie, your post makes tingles run down my spine...

I am in the exact same situation with my H. I, too, am the FWW-- he the BH-- and he "doesn't know what he wants" (a year later) and still acts the same way your H does. Nice one day, not so nice and withdraws the next. With no rhyme or reason, as far as I can see.

I, too, pray on my way home from work. I couldn't believe you wrote that-- I thought I was the only nut case who did that! I also don't know what I'm going to be coming home to-- whether it will be "good" or "bad" and I have no control over it.

He feels he has a right to "punish" me also. He's "not ready" to work on anything yet. Doesn't want to see a MC or an IC.

The similarities are kind scary, actually....

I'm really curious what advice people have for you.

I've asked my H what I can do... I've offered anything and everything-- from quitting my job (I have a very good position here, and am up for a big bonus in 1.5 years, so that is a big offer) and moving somewhere else-- everything. But he just says "I don't know" when I ask him. I ask him to think about it-- he says he will-- but then never answers me. If I ask again, I get the "I don't know" or the "there's nothing you can do" answers again. I suspect that is what answers you would get too, Angie.

TT

angie,

After my H's affair, I told him:

"If what you did doesn't destroy this marriage, my reation to it will".

What I recognized was that it's possible for the betrayed spouse to become a bigger threat to the recoveryof the marriage following an affair. The affair creates the crisis, and the BS is not responsible for that, but the failure to recover from that crisis can come from either side. I recognized my own potential to sabotage recovery and keep the pain in the forefront. I realized how easy it was to keep punishing my husband for his failings.

If you read through some of Harley's letters on the mainsite....he does address this issue and he says that the failure to forgive can become abusive after a while.

So what do you do? You probably don't feel justified or worthy of real forgiveness because you recognize and feel shame for the choice you made. There is a part of you that believes you deserve poor treatment. But if you have done all you can, then your husband needs to understand that his unwillingness to let you back into his life will destroy the marriage anyway. You can't undo what you did....so if he wants to have a happy marriage he will either have to accept your repentance and help rebuild compatibility....or he will have to accept that his rejection and punishment of you will continue to undermine intimacy and leave the marriage at the same risk it was when you chose to have an affair.

You're going to have to confront his rejection and put the ball in his court. I was looking for a specific letter I've read in the past from Dr.Harley....and I can't find it....but I did find this one:




You can't demand forgiveness, but you can let your husband know what the predictable result will be if he doesn't forgive you. Forgive yourself enough to stop tolerating the rejection. It's okay to be angry about it and confront the issue that is destroying your marriage now.

Best of luck to you.

Starfish--

Your comments to Angie help greatly. I'm reading along here with great interest... I feel that I am in a VERY similar situation.

I am curious HOW you broach this subject with the BS though? In my situation, this has been going on since September-- yes, we are going on 9 months of this. I don't think reasoning with him will work-- he seriously honestly believes that he is "entitled" to this, and I don't think that anything I tell him would change that POV. I've seriously considered leaving until he gets his act together and stops being so destructive in retaliation on a daily basis. I don't expect it to be puppy dogs and rainbows and sunshine every day... but this constant "punishment" wears you down... and is a big, huge LB.

Sorry if this is a mild TJ... I just hadn't seen anyone on here that was really in such a similar situation. Angie-- I think you should move this thread to either the "recovery" forum, or the "GQ II" forum-- they get far more traffic (and I will certainly follow it there!)

I really feel for you Angie! Hope you are still around!

TT

Starfish, Catperson;

Thank for your thoughts and advice. I will be replying to your comments a little bit later, I have to go to school right now.
I don't want you to think that I am ignoring you...thank's

TeaTea,
I do not know how to move it to other forums....If you tell me how, I will be glad to do it.
I'll be back later today.

Thanks,

A...

Just copy and paste it....

angie,

I'd be happy to help you move your whole thread if you'd like. Just drop me an email and tell me what forum.