I think you're right about differences in perspective. I firmly believe that in order to communicate with someone, you have to be willing to reach out to them in a way that doesn't drive them away - because if the message isn't received, than it doesn't do any good.

When I was in the Marine Corps, I had to memorize the 10 leadership traits. "Tact" was one of those traits, and it was there for a reason, even though it was almost universally considered the least important one. But ask General Eisenhower how important tact was in managing the Normandy landings...


I'm not saying anything against Tyk - except that it appears his use of that word hit a nerve with Brooke - and from what I could tell it was the use of that word, and nothing else, that she objected to. Communicating on a message board is always going to be a hit or miss, adjust as you go kind of thing.


Infidelity just really stinks.

My word choice was poor, even if only because the topic is now about my choice of words, which is very non productive to Brooke.

Yes, mean spirited people are what I would be concerned about for this child. Does recognizing the potential for these mean spirited people to have an impact on a child make me mean spirited? Is it reasonable to dismiss the idea that a situation like Brooke's actually brings out the meanness in people? That really the situation is a PRODUCT of base mean spiritedness?

How exactly does one tactfully talk about the future of a child that is the consequence of adultery and betrayal? The reality of the situation is ugly, and I find it difficult to "tactfully" talk about it without minimizing reality. How can one NOT have concerns about the quality of parenting that a child born of such circumstance might recieve? I'm not saying Brooke is going to be a bad mother, how could I know that? But it would be absurd to discount her very recent incredibly poor judgement, wouldn't it? Would anyone here let her raise THIER child? Would you even let her babysit them for a weekend? No, you wouldn't, and that's reasonable. What is unreasonable is pretending that isn't the case when talking about the situation. It'd be great if getting pregnant made everyone smarter, wiser, and more competent, but we all know it doesn't.

Anyhow, I'm probably just digging bigger holes, there is a private "child" forum, I hope you seek help there from those that have gone before you Brooke. I suspect even there that your situation may push the boundaries. You need help and good advice Brooke, I do hope you find it and I recognize that it is unlikely that it will be from me.

Also MyRev, thank you for the kinds words, I think you give me more credit than deserved, as this mess clearly illustrates, but I thank you all the same!

Here is another perspective to consider.

I believe that by far a large majority of posts have some merit to them. The ideas and different perspectives can be very powerful.

I also believe the large majority of posters are here for support and/or to help others. These are the main motivations.

So, the challenge is to see others point of view and see the value in what they post.

I believe there is value in MyRev's post. Especially this:


The message I hear is that Brooke this period of your life will take tremendous strength to take a negative and make it positive. Being a BH, I'm not sure you are there yet based on your response to Tyk.

It is going to take strength and maybe defensiveness doesn't show the strength and humbleness that she may need.

I also heard value in Tyk's message:


This is what he said. I is a valuable statement. He then expressed some reasons related to this. They could very well be valid reasons that should be considered. At a minimum, the primary concern of the future well being of the child is very valuable.

Choose your path wisely Brooke. Never be too proud to be wrong or to be sorry. It is time to choose a path with strength and determination.

I only have one comment about Tyk's post and that is that in today's society, I really don't think the stigma of a person's "beginnings" makes much of a difference anymore. What counts are the choices you make from this day forward.

Brooke, hopefully when your baby reaches an age of understanding you will be truthful with him and admit that you and his father were wrong. Hopefully the love, care and training he will have received up to that point will help him understand.

You can break the cycle that you and his father may have started with your adultery by teaching your child good morals, how to make good choices. You can set the example by choosing to live a moral righteous life from this day forward.

Although I disagree with your MIL's point of view, I think Starfish had a great suggestion about the letter.

As for your baby's father, unfortunately he will be a part of your life now for a very long time because he does have rights. I don't know what to say about that. That can't be easy for anyone. You need a miracle in your life right about now, and I'm praying for you, your husband and your unborn child.

((Brooke))

Me, too...

Brooke,

Tyk had some very important messages in his post to you, and so did My Rev. I hope they weren't lost or diverted by a title or term that was used to describe your unborn OC.

I am a BS who experienced the OC scenario, from the receiving end. Looking in my rear view mirror, I see now my then-H never offered or attempted to provide me with just compensation. There were alot of the "right words" used, alot of crying and promises. "Appearences" of him doing the right thing, but nothing that made a difference in my healing ... or actually our recovery, because it was still all about him.

I became step-mom and primary care giver to his illegitimate children (my step-sons) for 5+ years. I loved them as my own because they were innocent and amazing and his. If anyone would have called them "B__", I'd be in their face like white on rice. But technically, that is what they were. They were created out of betrayal, a betrayal that caused me so much unbelievable hurt. A betrayal that nearly destroyed me.

If you want a path to becoming a better person for the mistakes you've made and the hurt you've caused, you could start by raising your child to know that adultery is wrong and how it hurts so many people.

Good luck to you,
Jo

BTW, lots of folks (relatives and friends) in RL were coddling and walked on egg shells with my then-H about the situation and the hurt he caused. They didn't want to alienate him, so they sugar coated their talks and interaction with him. As a result, they made matters worse where he took their less than honest words as a positive sign his actions were justified.

It was the few courageous folks that confronted him with hard truths and the facts that were the ones that made some difference in his views. If only we all could find more courage.

Prayers,
Jo

They did have some useful information. So why cloud that information with hurtful additions?


It seems like you understand why she was offended.


So why are you defending it’s use? There are words that are used to describe people of different races. But those words are offensive and if used here would be edited too. The “Administrator” thought this word was offensive and deleted it.


Even Tyk realizes how unproductive using the word was.


More useful info. Hopefully it isn’t over looked by the defense of using an offensive word.

BTW - Tact should never be confused with lack of courage.

Brook,

I don't post to your threads; but I do look at them and pray for you and your sitch. You keep using the useful information given to you and keep moving forward.

Blessings

S&C

Thank you for your response to my post, S&C. I respect your POV even though it differs from mine.

God Bless.

Mahalo
Jo

Unbelievable!

Brooke defended her unborn, innocent child and that causes you to sense she's still wayward?

Who are you to determine she has 'no standing' to call out Tyk and defend her child from name calling?

What exactly do you mean by 'no standing' anyway? Or did you answer that already, by also determining that her betrayal is the worst and most egregious, and as such she has no right to speak her mind on these boards and defend her child? As far as I know she didn't break the TOS. So, tell me... why doesn't she have any standing?

***********

Thank you Justuss. You rock... as always!

Brooke

I also havent been on mb for awhile and I will tell you a little about my background. I meet my h an unknowingly was the OW for a short time, they physically seperated, and I became seriously involved with him then. We later married. FF 19 years later and I discover 2 alleged OC---ages 15 & 9--- at d-day. H confessed to an alleged ons at the time of conception of the 1st child but NEVER ever mentioned a child. The unrepentent adulteress encouraged 'secret' contact as long as I was not told. My d-day was almost 3 years ago, my h and I are still together and have never seperated.

While there is no excuse for anyone accepting abuse, verbal or physical from another, I can honestly tell you the pain you feel when betrayal cuts to the core and sometimes your anger and pain get the best of you and you lash out and say things like your h. I understand you also were a bs. Do you remember the pain you felt then? While adultery hurts everyone, bs, ws, op, com, oc, it doesnt matter the selfish choice to commit adultery will have a negative impact on everyone. All you can do is try your best to minimine the negative impact on your child.

With that, I do believe adoption would be the best case. It is the most selfless thing a person can do and I honestly do not know if I could even do it. My point is the best you may be able to do for your child, is to remove yourself and the stigma, and the fallout from her life and let her be raised in a loving 2 parent family with no cloud over her. I cant remember if you said yo know the sex of your unborn child or not, but will just refer to the child as her for the sake of this post.

I have seen first hand the pain caused to OC and COM because the so called 'adults' make decision based on their past actions, thereby keeping the adultery, the focus.

I dont know if you can help your stbxh or not, and I agree if the two of you are not working toward reconcilation, then you need to go no contact with him.

I too pick up on a little bit of the fog you may still be in. I dont know if it is called fog for the OP too or just the ws.

Anyway, when I was an OW, a harlot, a whore, a slut, and adulteress, yes those are words we dont like, but they are words that describe a behavior, I like all OW--whether they ever face it or not---came up with my own justification and rationalizations that my situation was different,etc...

And until you can accept the consequence and responsibility for your own actions and choices, you still have a long way to go. Specifically, the b---word that simply defines a child born out of wedlock. It doesnt refer to a child conceived in adultery specifically and there are many illegitimate children born when there is no adultery. It is a word and it has a definition that has been the same definition years, centuries before you and I were even born. No one wants their child to be called his because there is a negative connection to it, because children are supposed to be born inside a marriage. All these words reflect on the past behavior of the mother and have nothing to do with the child or the child's behavior. And no one want to be called a whore, slut, harlot, etc... for the same reasons. I say all this to encourage you that you really need to think about why it offends you so much and you need to work toward putting your past behavior BEHIND you. And when you do, it will not have the sting that it once had because you will have dealt with and faced your past choices,as I have. Sure you will never like the words but you wont be so quick to jump onto someone who uses them. You have to let go of the pride or whatever it is that makes you want to defend yourself and take offense when these words are used, and accept that yes at one time in your life, you were a whore, slut, etc...because that is how you behaved, but you are no longer a whore, slut, etc... because in addition to your behavior being different YOUR mindset and way of thinking are no longer the same.

To me, OC, is very offensive. There is no such thing as 'an other child'. My perspective is that I have 2 alleged step-children that have been denied the right by their own biological mother to be part of our family.
They are either my step-children or they dont belong to my husband. That also is a fact by definition that is very hard for many women who get pregnant by a mm find it hard to accept. We, the bs, didnt chose the ow to be the mother of our step-c, the ow chose us----by chosing our h---to be the step-m of their children. The child conceived in adultery, just like the com and bs, had no knowledge and never gave any consent to the adultery, and therefore the negative use of the word 'other' as in other woman isnt right either.

If you are not able to allow your child to be adopted, the child can still live a very good life and it is possible for the child to not carry the circumstances of conception within throughout their life. It is possible, but a lot will depend on you and how you chose to raise the child, and how much you focus on the adultery, circumstances, etc....

God Bless You
Ann

Brooke,

Have your child. Be good to him/her. Love them in a mannor that only IT"S creator would have you love him/her/

The circumstaces are irellevant to God. HE is the creator of life.

Love your child and hold your head up high. WE are all sinners.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Bumping Brooke's thread so Tyk won't worry.

Jo

Slight T/J - Jerry, you have such a wonderful way of cutting to the chase. Thank you.

Brooke, what Jerry says is right on.

Really? That is like saying some sins are more forgiveable than others. God doesn't see it that way. Sin is sin. Yes, brooke's BH got a large slice of the hurt pie. So did I. So did many others. One of my dearest MB friends has custody of the two, count them TWO OC her husband created. How you can sit there and say what she did was worse than any others is beyond me. I don't see her as foggy any more. I see as remorseful and wanting to make ammends.

Brooke, I do hope you stick around and continuing your growth. As a FWW and a BS, I can tell you I learned so much from MB and the people here who were willing to walk me through the painful times with truth and with gently placed 2x4's when I needed them.

I don't think so. I think it's saying that some sins hurt those around us more than others.

The notion of forgiveness isn't really addressed. Of course, we are not God, so it may be far more difficult for a human to forgive another human than it is for God to offer forgiveness. For one thing, God can forgive immediately, while with humans, it's a process that takes time.

Some hurts take more time to heal from than others. So while to God, sin is sin, to humans, there are different levels of hurt and differing abilities to forgive.

Maybe. The wanting to keep the child and wanting to save the marriage lead me to believe there is a wayward mindset going on. That's about what she wants to the exclusion of what he wants.

If she was using the POJA, then she would not argue that keeping the child was non-negotiable. So, in this respect, there is still evidence of a wayward mindset.

Me too. I think much learning can occur. However, it takes considering what is being said. Even those things that are not comfortable to hear.

I would NEVER encourage a woman to kill her baby. There are men here, BH's, that are raising their FWW's OC. Autumn Day is an awesome example of a FWW in that very situation. Her H is the OC's father, period. He forgave her. The child is a blessing in both of their lives. I am certain they could not imagine their lives without the OC now. To tell brooke she has to POJA the continuation fo the life within her is not realistic. That child is a human being. An innocent who did not ask to be born under these circumstances but will be a blessing to many anyway.

this is simply not true. God has defined that some sins are worse than others.

I am not saying that applies to Brooke's situation...but, Scripture is very clear that all sin is not equal.

Absolutely right.

Some things are a lot more important than marriage.

I understand what you are saying, MEDC. What I was trying to point out is that brooke's sin is just as forgivable as ANY other person who has committed adultery.