It has been about since my FWH & I have posted on MB. H was still lying to me and himself at the time and I felt I needed a break.

Since there are so many new people

here, I will try to give condense our story as much as possible. It is 2 yrs & 2 mos. past D-Day. I was so devistated I attempted suicide. H had A with his friends girlfriend. He lied saying they were just friends. I had gotten an STD, was cured but kept getting it back. He thought I was the one having an A because he & OW did not have symptoms. At the time I was taking medication to completely suppress my immune system. I have a cronic illness & stress triggers flares. I was also going through several other very stressful events in my life and had no support or comfort from my H.

I asked him to write a NC letter. He said he didn't want to hurt the OW feelings.

We started MC which made things worse because she took H's side and he knew it. Discovered OW wanted me dead and basically told me so to my face. She thrives on revenge. I went to OW's BF house to tell him about the A but he didn't believe me. (OW convinced him I was having an A and she was just talking to my H because he was so upset). OW started choking me. OWBF slammed me against the front door and told me to get out. (I have a permanent neck injury from this.) When I got to my car to leave, OWBF blocked me from closing my car door so I couldn't leave. I warned him several times to move because I was leaving but he wouldn't move. I put the car in reverse and started to back up very very slowly so the door touched OM. When it did, he yelled at me saying "let me get out of the way you crazy [censored]". When I got home, I had bruises around my neck from OW choking me and was in pain. I asked H to defend me by calling OM and telling him not to touch me like that ever again and just hang up. He refused.

More details started coming out about A 5 mos. later but he still lied about when the A started. All the stress was affecting my health and my job. I asked him to write a letter to the OW's BF to tell him the truth. You see, OW & her BF are spreading rumors that I'm crazy and probably that I'm having an A. She only stays with her BF because of money. She hates him. She has many other men she is scr**ing including all his friends to get money out of them.

6 mos. after D-day we started MC with Jennifer. H also lied to her. I was frustrated we weren't getting anywhere and I knew H was still lying about everything to me so I quit MC. We have read everything on this site and every book we could get our hands on.

More details came out about the A and he finally confessed to me that I did get the STD from him and OW but still wasn't telling me the truth about when the A started. Asked H again if he would write letter to OW's BF. I needed him to do this for me to show me he was commited to me now and not her. He still didn't want to. Said he was afraid her BF would come to our house & hurt him.

A few months later, we started MC again with Steve Harley. More details came out very slowly. We couldn't afford it any longer so had to stop. I couldn't deal with the pain and lying anymore. My health was going down hill fast. I was going to lose my job. I had enough and told H if he didn't write a letter to OM by the 2nd Anniversary of D-Day, I was done.

We started IC. I told my IC H wouldn't write the letter until the day before the deadline. He started the letter in Dec. I think. He read it to me but it was a joke. Very vague. OW's BF wouldn't have gotten it. Never mentioned an affair. He revised it a couple of times. It was ready to mail the day before the deadline just like I told my IC. He didn't let me ready the final draft and I didn't see him put it in an envelope so I wasn't sure he did it.

I then told him I didn't want him to send it. He was very upset about it. I didn't know where the letter was. He said he put in the deposit box at the bank and would get it so I could see it. A couple of weeks later, I asked about it and he showed me the envelope. There was no stamp on it so I don't know for sure when he wrote it. I haven't opened it.

Fast forward to now.......

H quit IC and I am going one last time this week. My health has deteriorated so much that I can no longer work. It has taken me several days to write this because I am in so much physical pain now. I have panic attacks and have problems being around family or other people for very long. That is what brought me back to this site.

My FWH has made many changes in himself. He appears to be very remorseful. I am still getting mixed signals from him. My C says it's just my perseption of things.

I still am unable to move on completely because I still see H doing or saying things to protect OW and because of other issues we can't seem to resolve. Since this is getting long I'll just ask some questions and get your opinions.

1. Is it possible for a FWS to still have some "fog" 2 yrs. after D-Day with NC?

2. Would a man in the beginning of an EA say the OW's name during SF with his wife? Or, would it be more likely that they were already in a PA? H's answer to this last week was..."I call people the wrong name all the time". Ouch!!!!

3. Why did/does he want to protect the OW or her feelings after knowing what kind of person she was and what she did and tried to do?

4. I have one more question but not sure how to word it without embarrassing my H. It has to do with SF. Here goes...Is it possible for a FWH to lose "size" after an A? I'm talking about a big difference....(no pun intended)

5. Why does H only show excitement during SF when we are using the "position" he & OW used 98% of the time?

6. Why does H lose erection any time I'm on top? (Sorry so blunt)

7. I have had very bad nightmares since D-Day. IC and doctor says they will go away. They haven't. Has anyone else had to deal with this?

Any ideas?

I think you need to get another counselor who understand PTSD a bit more, and IMO, make some firmer boundaries around YOU. Your H doesn't sound very remorseful to me, from what you've posted. He's not taking extraordinary precautions. He may be spoon feeding you whatever will keep you quiet for a time, but it doesn't sound like he's bending beyond his comfort zone.

What has your F?WH changed about himself that puts you at ease?

What sort of reparations has he made for the damage that he has done?

Do you two have a solid PLAN in place for marital recovery?

IMO, you are not IN recovery, as prescribed by the Harleys. You are in a sort of limbo, where no consequences have been felt or dealt with. I think it's time for you to decide what your boundaries are and how to enforce them. If your F?WH seems to be protecting OW, the wayward mentality is STILL pervasive.

Please consider finding a counsellor who can help you in the ways you need. Your perceptions seem dead on to me.

(((troubled water)))

I agree with SL. From what you have written, I am not sure that I believe your H is not still somehow involved with OW...especially if she is on his mind enough to utter her name in SF.

I don't think he is in recovery yet at all. I know that all FWH are different, but he needs to EMBRACE all of the MB concepts. It doesn't sound like he is addressing your ENs for closure on this topic. If he is truly afraid of the ramifications of OWBF, maybe you should consider moving away from the city you are in.

And IMO, he doesn't need to tell OWBF about the A. He needs to send a NC letter to her. You have already tried to expose the A to OWBF and he didn't believe you. That's his problem. He will watch more closely and that is all you can hope to gain from exposure...that the OW won't be able to sneak around anymore without raising suspicions.

What has he done to PROVE to you that this is over? Is he an open book? Does he account for all of his time? Are you spending 15 hours + a week together? Are you in MC again? Is he willing to do that? He has to SHOW you that he's committed or I'm not going to buy that he's done with the A.

As for size, I don't think that is physically possible (although an STD could have something to do with it?)

Position...that's him holding on to the A. Was he like that before the A? I would see this as another red flag that he is still emotionally invested in the OW...maybe only fantasizing about what it was like with her, but maybe acting out what he does with her.

Be careful. Not to scare you (cos I really have no way of knowing), but my gut says that he's still involved with her.

I'm here if you need support.

2. No, he would not. For a man to call out another woman's name in bed, he's either on drugs, insane, has absolutely zero respect for you, or he's very, VERY involved with his OW. He's fantasizing about her before and during the time he says her name, obviously.

3. Because, in my opinion, he never stopped seeing her...he sided with her. He'd rather see YOU hurt. See #2 for further evidence of him preferring her over you.

4. Not possible as far as I know...the only likely explanation is that his "little soldier" is not at full attention, so to speak...just enough to go through the motions. You aren't the OW, after all...the one that gets him REALLY excited. You can drive on a tire that's nearly flat, after all. It's probably closely related to #5 and #6.

5 and 6. It sounds like he's thinking of OW the entire time he's having sex with you. When the sex ceases to be like it is with OW, he loses interest to the point of becoming a wet noodle.


If my W ever called out OM's name, I think I'd lose it completely. I mean "somebody better call 911 right now" lose it.

I agree with Krazy's assessment of your A-hem husband's endowment during sex. My WH had the same reaction during sex, and i KNEW why. For the few times it occurred (sex, that is) he was never at FULL ATTENTION, KWIM.

WH never called out OW's name, but I can bet he was so turned off by me that it just wasn't happenin.

I would have to say that your H is still very wayward, even if he's not currently IN an affair. Fog is one thing, disrespect sends up the red flags.

Thank you silentlucidity and hicktownmommy...

He said the OW's name during SF back in 2004. I'm trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together yet. He says he believes the EA possibly started late in 2003 or early 2004. He said her name during SF with me probably late summer of 2004. He said maybe he was so deep in an EA that it was wishful thinking when he said her name. It happened one more time after D-Day....the first time we made love he said her name. It has not happened since.

Was it wrong for me to ask FWH to write a letter to the OW's BF? I told him not to send it because he was so upset about it. He has changed for the better in so many ways but this is a major roadblock that has kept us from moving into recovery. He will send the letter if I insist but it was important to me for him to make the move on his own to prove to me that I am more important than "hurting her feelings". Just once, I want him to stand up for me and defend me. He has never done that before.

Then, when he answered my question on why he said her name during SF with me before he said the A started....well, my heart felt like it was D-Day all over again. I told him I felt he was still lying to himself and protecting her. He can't see it. He says he hates the OW and couldn't care less about her feelings.

This is what I mean about mixed messages. I need to find some way to work through this or it will cost me my life. Because it has been over 2 yrs. I keep getting told to just move on. Everyone needs to heal in their own way and I know I can't heal without resolving this.

My FWH has changed and is changing more every week. He compliments me all the time. He would wait on me hand and foot if I would let him. He goes to every doctor appt. with me, is very involved in my illness, does 99% of the cooking, 50% of the laundry, does the dishes and has taken over our home based business since I'm no longer able to at it. He also has a full time job. I had a full time job also but have only been able to work a few hrs. this month so my job will be done in the next week.

He is home all the time. If he goes to the store, he checks the parking lot for her car to make sure he doesn't run into her. He accounts for his time. He calls me from work so I know he is there.

He knows my boundries and that I will not bend ever again on them. He takes precautions at work when dealing with women and does get close to my friends, etc.

As for SF, I still feel very inadequate because of the lack of things happening. The first few months after D-Day he was very much at FULL ATTENTION. It was wonderful. Then things started to change. I was told it just happens to men over 50. I don't buy that. The only thing that changed was the woman. I was also told that it is probably because he has so much guilt. Possibly but I can't buy that either because he says he doesn't even think of her anymore because I excite him so much more. He said he doesn't know what he even saw in her.

I asked my H to start posting again. It would help to have both sides of the story and people could see if there is progress from then to now. He said he will think about it but is afraid of getting bashed again. He hasn't posted since last fall. I know his name here is Gilligan. I haven't read anything on his old thread....can't handle it yet.

Oh my, sweetie...I am so sorry for your pain! Both emotionally and physically. Did you press charges for physical assault after this confrontation? What a horrible situation for you.

The first answer is YES, your husband isn't just "still a little foggy" he is still a full-fledged WAYWARD ALIEN. This man is still abusing you, galsighting you, keeping secrets, placating you to divert your attention while he plays around. My bet is that he is either still going on with the first HO or on to another.

PLEASE STOP HAVING SF WITH HIM IMMEDIATELY! Get tested for all STDs. I would also say- enough with the books and counseling for him, he doesn't take it seriously and is only using it to placate you.

Have you read up on Plan A and Plan B? Go read the response Believer gave to fixerupper from the book "Love Must Be Tough." It will apply to your sitch as well.

If you feel you have made the necessary changes and have shown a good Plan A, I would say Plan B is in order. Do you have any children? If so, what ages?

H is using this as an excuse. Because I am now considered disabled, moving is not a possibility for us. We were born and raised here and our families are here. The OW will move on as soon as she gets rid of her BF. He has major heart problems and she is helping him along by cooking very high fat meals, etc. OW wants his money a.s.a.p. so she can move on to her next victim.



After 2 yrs. I felt it is too late to send a NC letter to OW. She would actually get pleasure out of it because it would show her that she is still causing conflict in our M.

OWBF believes whatever she told him. He does not think she had an A at all!!! She is a professional at manipulation!!! One of the best I've ever seen!!!

That is why I wanted my H to write a letter to her BF. Even after I told him things that I couldn't possibly know he didn't believe me. This woman is able to get men to believe anything. I don't know how but she does. My H and her BF are proof. Believe me, OWBF will not believe it unless it is spelled out in simple words to him and that is questionable. I just want my H to tell her BF that an A did happen and that I was telling him the truth. He didn't have to believe us but needed to check things out himself, that she is not the person she appears to be.

I don't care what her BF does with the information. I just want my H to defend me just once. Am I asking for too much? Is it too late?

Thank you Krazy71 and Resonance


No I didn't press charges. I was told I couldn't because I went to their house. I do have pictures of the bruises around my throat. Second, I was afraid she would turn things around on me in some way. She is very good at this and has done it several times. Remember, I attempted suicide so she had that to use against me. You see OWBF is a businessman and his profession involves dealing with police over several counties. They all think OW is a wonderful woman and such a hard worker. (She is scr**ing one of the cops). I didn't have a chance against that.

Both my H and I have been tested for every STD possible. I am on 3 different immune suppressents so I have no immunity so I know he is not having an A now. If I caught something now, it could kill me.

I think I am being misunderstood. I don't feel my H is still involved with the OW or anyone else. I know where he is at all times. He goes to work then comes home. If he does need to run an errand after work we talk to each other on our cell phones. Otherwise we are together all the time.

I just have a few issues from before D-Day that I need help resolving in order for me to heal and move on.

I gotcha, and sorry if I misunderstood...I guess I read your first post in the HERE and NOW rather than in the PAST.

But I still think he is hanging onto the wayward mindset of "sweep it under the rug and forget about it." This is why you still have the unresolved feelings. I am going to bump a thread I wrote about 2 months ago that may help you distinguish if he is still wayward...it's called "Inside the Wayward Mind." I would link it for you here, but hubby is the computer geek and hasn't shown me how to do it on the new format yet...hehehe!

Thank you Resonance.

That is why I am so confused. H is doing all the right things then out of nowhere he answers my question with something directly from the Wayward Babble list. Then when I bring it to his attention, he just can't see it. I see it as protecting the OW. He, of course doesn't see it but neither did the counsellors. I'm beginning to feel like I am crazy.

I forgot to add....He wanted to shove things under the rug and forget it but now he knows I can't move on until we resolve a few things. He now says he doesn't like talking about it because he feels so bad about what he has done to me and our M.

I'm sorry trouble...I didn't understand the time frame either.

What I'm wondering (and I am only two months into recovery so take it or leave it) is whether or not you went through the steps YOU needed to yet. It may have been two years and he may be doing all the "right things," but if YOU missed some step in the process of recovery, you may not be able to move on until you go through it.

Did your WH tell you everything? Do you still have questions about the A? Those things might make it hard to move on.

I agree with you about the idea that OW might find it amusing that this still bugs you enough to have WH write a NC letter, but at the same time, the letter is not really just for her. It is also for you and for your WH. There is something about WRITING DOWN your convictions and commitments to your M. I don't think it's too late. You just have to let go of how she reacts...it doesn't matter what she thinks. She is not important.

I don't think a letter to OWBF is important at all. What makes you think that he will believe your WH any more than he believed you? Again, what do you have to gain from it? It probably won't hurt her (which was my initial reason for wanting to tell OWH) and he may not believe it. It doesn't matter. Don't waste any more energy on them.

If your WH is working hard on recovery, spend your energy trying to figure out what YOU need to recover. Explain to your WH how you are feeling. Ask him to help you to figure out what you need. If he wants recovery as much as it seems, he will probably embrace the opportunity to help you move past it.

I struggle with not being recovered after two months, but realistically...two years is not even enough time. This is one of the most painful experiences you can ever have (check out Dr. Harley's video about infidelity...it talks about the pain). I feel silly giving you the exact advice I am getting on my thread at the moment, but give yourself a break. You have a right to take all the time you need to recover.

Thank you hicktownmommy. I need as many opinions as I can get right now as I am feeling very low today.

To answer your questions, no, I know we haven't gone through all the steps. H lied to me over and over again after D-Day. I found out one more detail last night that he has denied all along. Did he just remember? Maybe, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt for that one. I still haven't gotten the same story twice. I've given up the need to know many things. What I need to heal is to know when the A really started. Second I need him to defend me, to let me know I mean more to him than she does.

As far as a NC letter to the OW, it would mean nothing to her or me. The OW has no remorse, no guilt of any kind. She lives to hurt others and gets great pleasure from it. If you remember the story of Lacey and Scott Petersen, Scott is a saint compared to the OW. She killed my dog and was poisening me then had the guts to scream at me "why don't you die, die, die!!!!" I don't care about her reactions or feelings in any way.

The only thing I need is for my H to admit to OWBF that I was telling the truth. They are spreading rumors around our small town that I was having an A and that I was lazy and my H did all the work. I have a very large family in this area and I don't want these fake rumors to reach them.

I need my H to tell OWBF the A did happen, what lead up to it, and that he needs to check out her past for his own safety, and not to ever touch me again. By doing this, I know the rumors would stop and it would prove to me that he is willing to give up the secret of his former second secret life. OWBF would believe the A happened if my H told him.

I would agree with you completely, but in this situation a different approach is needed. I believe my H doesn't want to send the letter to the OWBF because he may throw the OW out. That would mean "hurting her feelings". Yeh, as if she was capable of having any. This is why I can't move forward in our M. To me it tells me that he is still protecting her.

Am I wrong in feeling this way?

Does he know this other woman did these things to you? Do you have a restraining order on her for what she did?

Any proof she did these things?

Yes my H knows about all of it. No, I don't have a restraining order on OW. Both my H and I are afraid to. My H took pictures of the bruises on my neck from OW.

The only other thing I have is that OW called my pharmacy and trying to get my prescriptions but that still couldn't be used against her.

Sorry I got going on the OW. I am just having a very rough couple of days.

My H has been saying for a long time how much he hates the OW. When we see the OW's car he said it doesn't bother him at all. If she walked in front of her naked he would spit on her.

Last night my H said he would like to switch to the night shift at work to get away from the crap during the day and wanted to discuss it with me. We talked about the pros and cons. Then he said he is concerned about the possibility of seeing the OW's car on the way to work at night. If she saw him, she would start making sure she would be going to her job at the same time so he would "accidentally" see her.

He is concerned that according to MB, he could start having feelings for her again. Huh? Feelings? After what the OW did to us?

Why do I feel like I've just been stabbed in the heart again?