Stir some crap up with her OM. Do you know who he is? Call him up and tell him to stop contacting your wife. Call up his family and friends and let them know he's fooling around with a married woman. Make your wife no longer worth his effort. Whatever you've done is still no excuse for his behavior.

Also, what state do you live in? You can sue him for alienation of affection in certain states if he refuses to stop contacting your wife.

I know very much who he is, He plays in a band that's trying to go big. I have spoken with him on the phone and asked him to stop talking to her. He told me that it's not an affair because she had given up on me, and that if she wanted to stop contact he would respect that and not contact her. However I didn't feel any sort of seriousness in his voice when he told me that.

We live in Minnesota. And I don't think many states have that as a bases for suing anymore.

Seriously, you had absolutely NO REASON to embarrass your wife with listing "a threesome" part-.
It seems clear to me you don't understand that your "confessions" may have been TMI -- for her. And yet, you wonder why and ponder your wife does not feel like posting.
By your own admissions-
You say one thing, do another- admit repeat lies- repeat betrayals. You post intimate details of what your spouse may or may not want posted-

and you want our advice on how to influence HER to come back to YOU? I think you need to work on yourself first

Do you understand the "love buster" of selfish behavior?

You are the same as most WS' when they get here. You are here not here to change, not to learn how to build a relationship, heal the pain you caused, or address your own issues. You are here to manipulate your W, who is apparently moving on, into giving you another chance.

Guess what? Hope sees right through it too.

Perhaps I haven't been exposed enough to other WSs on this forum to be cynical.

I'll admit that it is tough to want to help you when you've done all you've done.

Nevertheless, I do believe that past wrongs can and should be forgiven in a marriage if there is any remote chance to save it for the children.

Saving it doesn't mean just keeping it together but fully reforming it to where it is different and better than it was before.

It's tough to want to help you when you've caused so much damage.

There's only so much abuse a person can take before finally throwing in the towel.

I gave my exww the following analogy when she discussed how nice she was trying to be with me:

It's as if she stabbed me in the gut, pulled out my intestines and is now saying to me, "Why are you upset? I helped you bandage your wounds. I stitched you up. I gave you a bed to lay on. Why can't you see how nice I'm being by doing these things?"

It's as if the act of gutting me was forgotten and that's how it is with you now.

For reference, BW/WW 's thread:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2021511#Post2021511

Wrongdoer, you've got a lot of work to do. What you've put your wife through is completely inexcusable. IF your wife takes you back, you are lucky. You need to submit to the "rules of her house."

hope4happiness, two wrongs don't make a right. You don't have to go back to wrongdoer, but ditch your OM. You've got exactly what you wanted with your husband, it just took two months longer than you wanted. You don't have to just take him back. You are in control. Make him work for it.

I'm sorry I thought that the purpose of these forums was to be completly honest and tell the whole story. I guess I didn't think too much about it before putting it down. I'll edit the original post.

I did send out my contact letter after she read it. And have my resume out there now. I've got my first counseling session in the morning and am working on myself. Hope says she is going to stop seeing her OM to protect him after I started txting him a lot. I'm really not sure if I'm doing anything right. Even here I get told many dif. things.

Maybe I should just try not to save the marrige but to just work on myself. I told Hope that if she stopped seeing the OM that I would stop bothering her and move out.

You can do both at once. Don't focus on fixing your marriage right away. Focus on making yourself a better person who learns how to avoid the despicable behavior you displayed the past year, and learn how to meet the emotional needs of your wife without expecting anything in return. If you focus on that, your marriage will improve.

I don't know where to begin. I am tired, overly tired. There are things that I have found out that I don't think I can easily get over. So many lies and hurtful words, so many terrible things burned into my brain. I gave our marriage everything I had. I tried so hard to save us only to be hit with more pain and agony. I gave, expecting nothing in return, hoping for the best and suffering alone.

In January I tried to get wrongdoer to move out to proceed with plan B but he refused. I tried implementing rules of the house and it was a joke. After wrongdoer asked for a divorce I hit bottom. I cried, I yelled, I asked questions... I finally got some answers. Then I left to clear my head. I drove down a lonely country road in the middle of the night, pain radiating every fibre of my being. I listened to angry music and then in moment of anger I screamed as loud as I could in anguish, frustration and defeat. Silent the rest of the way home, I had given up, I felt empty, numb. I remained so for the following months.

I begged wrongdoer to leave me, leave our house, couldn't he see my suffering, couldn't he see my love for him and the pain in my eyes? No, his eyes were closed tight, lost in his affair, blind to the wake of chaos behind him, me bobbing along behind. The only difference now was that he felt freer to be with her. He even openly went on a trip to Duluth with her when we were struggling to pay the bills.

I felt trapped by my circumstances. No money to leave, no where to go. I did something I regret wholeheartedly at the end of my sanity, halfheartedly hoping for something, anything. What a fool I was. But it was what I needed to shock me back to life. Say "this is wrong!" It also dug me in deep past the bottom. I saw absolutely no hope for saving our marriage.


A few weeks ago I asked Wrongdoer questions, all the questions I'd asked him before. He got mad and told me he was tired of me asking. I just wanted to verify for the both of us that none of the answers had changed, that he didn't want me, he chose himself. If I asked him to choose he would give OW her "chance" Blah. The final bit of dirt on the grave.

I gave up. I met someone else. Yes, he meets all of the EN's that I've been lacking and more. I won't go into how I feel about him out of respect for Wrongdoers feelings. Even if I wasn't with this guy, I would still not want to be with Wrongdoer right now because of all of the pain he has caused me.

Wrongdoers words tell me everything I want to hear now, but his actions show something different. He jumps between me and OW and even now they are back together. Wromgdoer has a lot of work to do on himself and I don't have the strength to help him through it. He needs to help himself.

I love you. I have told you this. You are the father of my children. I can not do this anymore. You have told me yesterday and today that you are going to let me go, I hope you stick to this. If you change your mind and come back here to find out more ways to bend me to your will I hope you stop for a second. You can't change me, you can only change yourself. Be strong and fight for yourself, fight for your children, be a better person.

You are both so deep in the fog. Both of you are justifying and rationalizing and minimizing. I don't have any idea if your marriage can be saved, but I hope and pray both of you learn to own your own stuff, and become stronger people.

Hey, Hope4. I can understand where you're coming from. However, I fear you're going from the frying pan to the fire, or vice versa.

You are in a terribly unsafe situation. Please seek safety, and get some time away from men. Your new guy can't heal the hurts from your WH. You have to heal first.

Think about this, if you can:

1. Get safe. I'll bet you can find support. If you can't, find someone who can help you with it, a church, Al-Anon. Anything.
2. Heal.
3. Make an informed and clear-headed decision regarding your future and that of your children. Being tangled up with men who aren't clear-headed doesn't help you to keep your mind clear.

YIM

So hopeforhappiness now you are on equal footing with wrongdoer? You are both in active affairs? Why don't you both cut this crap and end your affairs? What about your children? With both of you in the fog, who is putting their needs ahead of yours? Waywards are very selfish creatures. Children need care. How about you both call the Harleys and pull your heads out of your rears?

All I see on this thread is each of you justifying your own selfish actions.

I am planning on working to make myself a better person and heal. I'm getting a place on my own, just the kids and me. I'm going to counseling for as long as I have it b4 wrongdoer quits his job. I'm still reading books, articles online and seeking wisdom from others to grow, change, adapt... become a better person.

The "OM" I'm with might be an emtional affair under MB classifications for the fact that I'm still living with my H. Talking to someone else, another man might be seen as wrong.

In my eyes our marriage was over, we were discussing divorce and moving out, working out the details. Wrongdoer was seeing the OW pretty openly and I felt we were pretty much roommates. I let go of my anger and hurt and accepted that it was over. I decided to move on. And I did. When I told Wrongdoer about my relationship, he became upset and so continues our tale.

Maybe I should have waited till we moved out to make male friends. I didn't so this is where I'm at now. My children have not been introduced to my "OM" and we are planning on waiting quite awhile before they are. We are friends who would like to be someday more and we are willing to wait for each other. You might laugh at this, that's fine. I'm here to learn.

I'm not with someone else for vengeance or spite. I truly believed Wrongdoer and I were over and that he did not want me. I didn't care anymore that he didn't. Kudos to him and OW, maybe they will be happy together, maybe not. I don't know.

I DO know that I don't trust Wrongdoer with my heart. I am not willing to give him this 4th, 5th, 6th chance. I love him like family and I care and worry for him. I don't want to fall back in love with him again to trust and then be let down and be right back at where I was a few months ago.

I know and I have apologized for my faults in our marriage. I changed and fixed myself, lost weight, shut down my photography business, cut back on work so I could be a "homemaker", cleaned like mad, spent extra time with the kids. This did not make me happy. I don't want to be the homemaker.

I realized that I have also been extremely unahppy for a long time. I stopped living when I became a wife and mother. I'm getting back out into the world, making friends again, writing and drawing. MY "OM" got me a book so I can work on getting my GED and someday go to college.

He really is a good person. He wants me to be happy even if I'm not with him. He would probably be heartbroken if I cut off contact. I would be too. He inspires me to be a better person. He told me that even if we could only be friends he'd rather have that than nothing at all. Though I know if I chose to be completely alone "only friends" wouldn't last very long.

I am young, I do not know everything. I am open to suggestions and learning. I don't want to save my marriage. I do want to be a better person. I do want to be a great mother. I want to fight like mad to live on my own in this big world. I want to get along with wrongdoer and be friends and great parents.

I don't know what the future holds, but right now, this moment... I am not hurting anymore. I don't hate anyone. I don't feel like giving up on life, I feel like pushing forward.

A truly good man would not interfere in another man's marriage or involve himself with a married woman. You are as foggy as your stbx. You are not divorced until the final document is final. End the R with your OM and show your children what an honorable person is. If this OM is a "good man" he will leave you alone to go through your D and help your children heal before starting an R with you.

Since you said you are open to learning, I just want to tell you something..
the lines above, taken from your post, are almost verbatim what I've seen many other adulterers say over and over and over again. There is a lot of re-writing of history going on, looking back and deciding you have been unhappy, the marriage was over, you've met someone wonderful who understands you,etc. etc. It sounds good to you now, and seems special, but it is right by the script, and beginning a relationship while married is never ever a good or special thing. You have pain and heartache ahead, trust me on this. If you end up with this guy, you will know he is capable of cheating with married women, and he will know you are capable of cheating also. NOT a strong foundation for a relationship!

Amen!

Do you understand that what we all want is for you to do the right thing? To be honorable and to not look back in regret for your actions of today? I was very straight forward with a friend who was a BS. She did EXACTLY what you are doing and said the EXACT same things to me as justification. I was the only one that told her the truth, that what she wa doing was as bad as her WH. She was angry. A year later she came back to tell me that I was right. OM was not a "good man" and that she was wrong to start an R before her D was final. Wrong to put her children aside while she pursued her own version of "happiness" while their daddy was checked out too in his A.

Hey, H4.

I just want to reiterate what you may already know and that is that when a woman comes from a background like what you have, it's very easy to get back with the same kind of man. It may be wiser to cut the contact for now. Keep your head clear. Focus on just the children and yourself, not feelings for another man.

If he's still available when you're ready for a new relationship, perhaps you can start again, with a healthier state of mind and more wariness.

It sounds like you are well on your way to healing. You're not going to get a lot of judgment from me, given your situation. I say that at this point, you need to keep your kids and yourself safe. Since you're better able to judge that than we on this board, I defer to your judgment on whether you should stay where you are, or what.

But, until you are farther away from the hurt you've sustained, I know that for many of us, we wouldn't have the presence of mind to make good judgments of people. "Better than what was" is often not good enough, but seems so when we're so hurt. You're out of the proverbial frying pan, so please stay out of the fire.

YIM

Wrongdoer, get your crap together, and have NC w/ this OW.

h4h, you don't need another man to leave wrongdoer. In fact, you shouldn't have another man to leave wrongdoer. Might I suggest that the only reason you've now given up after months of trying is because you found someone else? Right now you are just sinking to wrongdoer's level. I know you are hurting, but that is no excuse. You need to drop your OM. He is nothing more than an opportunist, praying on a vulnerable woman, so he can bed her as soon as he gets a chance. Don't fool yourself that your OM is "special." He's likely as morally depraved as wrongdoer. You need to have NC with your OM. If you still want to leave wrongdoer, that's your decision, but you should never have contact with OM regardless of how your situation turns out.

Actually, the books DO cover this.

If you'd quit snowblowing long enough to actually SEE that you both are as TYPICAL as any wayward gets, then you both might actually evolve into something far more respectable than you are right now.

Not one thing that either of you have said has not been heard by most of the betrayed here. I doubt very many of us even batted an eye at the 3-some. We've heard it all.

You are (neither one of you) any more special than my FWDH was...and neither one of you are behaving any differently than he did...well, maybe a little differently, I DID get TWO OC outta the deal.

Faith is right. Both of you need to mommy and daddy up. For the sake of your kids, cut it out and BE grown ups.

And Hope - if that man were ANY kind of man, he'd have NEVER looked your way twice.

You are his STOLE MEAT...not soul mate. If he EVER thought more about you than himself, he'd have NEVER acted on ANY relationship with you until you were unfettered by the one you are in.

That he hasn't speaks volumes towards his character.

Sure. You could try to justify it that we don't KNOW him...but all it is an empty justification because his ACTIONS have already spoken more loudly than your words ever will.

And WD - that OW, you better be careful or as soon as she truly gets a whiff of your potential leaving her in the lurch (even if you don't)...well...you'd better wear a raincoat or you'll be in whole lotta mess that the books are even afraid to touch upon.