I have been looking over the materials here and would love to try and introduce them to my husband, however, I am afraid of setting myself up to be steam rolled. My husband has very different expectations and life experiences than I do which has resulted in a lot of incompatability. Our big areas of conflict are kids, housekeeping, admiration and financial support. I'm pretty laid back and he's a type-a executive type. Because I love him and sincerely want him to be happy, I've worked very hard to move closer and closer to his vision of how these things should be handled. I think I've done it in a way which is pretty respectful of myself and I don't resent these changes - some of which I wouldn't do if he weren't around and some of which have definitely been for the better like not being a terrible slob. However, I have not completely adopted his way of doing things and do not always execute consistently (he views consistent as day after day, year after year - I view consistent as 5 to 6 times a week for daily stuff, 29 out of 30 days for weekly things, and 10-11 months out of 12 for monthly tasks).
Because I have not completely adopted his way of thinking and doing things and am not as consistent as he would like, he believes that I am forcing him to live according to what I want without regard for his desires.
I think he has unrealistic expectations, but he feels that he performs at a top-notch level so he has the right to expect the same from me. He absolutely is top-notch in providing for us (I stay home with the kids - the one point I haven't been willing to give on which I made quite clear before we got married). He has gone above and beyond the call of duty to do so - down to working through a life threatening illness and other extremely challenging situations. I greatly admire and appreciate this, but he is a human being like any other and in other areas he absolutely is not top-notch. Which is fine. I know who he is and what he can give and try to be very respectful of that. Again, I think I have done this in a respectful way and do not generally resent this. I love him for who he is, not just for giving me what I want.
At any rate, it seems to me that he simply does not see or value the ways that I am working to meet his needs. He would probably say that his needs aren't even a consideration, which is of course, very hurtful to me because it discounts ways that I am trying to give to him. If I try to point out that his perception of things is not accurate, he simply says that his perceptions are his feelings about the situation. It's like his trump card - I can't tell him how to feel about something, and if he feels that there is a problem, then I need to deal with that reality. I feel like all the regular rules of healthy relationships are being used as weapons against me in our conflicts rather than as a means to seek solutions we can both live with.
I think that a lot of this stems from the fact that he was raised in an extremely abusive home by a mother who demanded perfection from him. He has always taken things very seriously and took her demands for perfection to heart. It is my opinion that the only reason she was able to demand as much as she did from him was because she was willing to enforce it by nearly killing him for the slightest infraction. Of course, he knows that the abuse wasn't normal or desirable, but he can't seem to accept that the perfection isn't normal or necessarily even desirable either. The fact that he is successful career-wise and he credits this perfectionist behavior with his success means he has almost no desire to change his perspective since by his standards it works. The fact that by my standards it doesn't isn't even an allowable consideration since, by his thinking, I enjoy the life I have because of the success he has achieved by working from his perspective.
He's a good man, I know he loves me and our kids. But he's miserable, which isn't what I want. And because he's miserable, we are frequently in conflict as he tries to get his needs met by demanding, disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts.
I'm not sure how we could implement the "both partners must enthusiastically agree" approach if the only thing which he will enthusiastically agree to is his way 100%, 100% of the time.
I love my husband, but I am rapidly losing my motivation to engage in these conflicts with him. I find myself saying hurtful things during conflicts much more readily than I ever would have in the past because I just don't have the motivation to exercise the self-control needed not to engage in angry outbursts. I don't even want to spend as much time with him because even when he's trying to be nice, just under the surface he has all this anger and resentment towards me brewing. I'm not afraid of conflict, but I have no motivation to try and hash things out with him further - he doesn't seem to care at all about what works for me and just keeps attacking me for not being who/what he needs me to be. I think that we've made it this far precisely because I am very laid back. I've been willing to over look a lot, forgive a lot and accept what he's able to give me as major deposits into my "love bank". But it's been 10 years and his constant misery and discontent with me has finally about worn me out.
I guess I'm probably looking for a bit of a refuel so I can work myself up to weathering the ordeal of bringing the materials here to his attention. He has changed a lot and is willing to consider new ideas. But every conversation and change takes a pound of flesh and a quart of blood before he'll actually think about it rather than just fight me. The problem seems to be that we can't get past the core issues that are making him miserable so nothing seems to stick. Any ideas, encouragement would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

OK, I'm already too long, but I'm venting now. I listed our areas of conflict:

Kids - We have 4 - ages 13, 9, 3 and 2. He wants our kids to be as well behaved as he remembers being under his mother's rule. I think this is unrealistic given that we are not going to abuse our kids. Our kids are better behaved than most, but they're typical kids - often impulsive, lacking in judgement and needing to be told repeatedly what we expect of them. All of these things are just unacceptable in my husband's eyes. We have 13 year old who is doing very well and is actually rarely impulsive, has decent judgement and doesn't need to have things repeated all the time, so what we've been doing does get results over time, my husband just thinks it's unfair to him to deal with all of their dumb stuff in the mean time.

Housekeeping - I am a terrible slob. For years there were paths in my room through piles of clothes, books and CDs leading to doors, dressers and closets. When we first got married, I thought I was doing well if two rooms in the apartment got cleaned on the same day. Today, I am pretty consistent (by my 5 or 6 day a week standard) in keeping the living areas and our bedrooms and baths neat and clean. Our 13 and 9 year old boy's rooms are a mess and their play area in the basement gets sloppy. But the truth of the matter is that if I didn't live with my husband, I would probably clean the kitchen every other day and the rest of the house twice a week, so I think I'm doing pretty well. Because of my inconsistency my husband disagrees.

Admiration - my husband thinks that because he is the one working and providing for us, he should be the center of the family and his needs should come first. To a large extent they do. The house is cleaned for him almost everyday; he does what he wants and does not do what he doesn't want when he is home; the kids know that they have to do what he wants them to do, even if I'm not 100% on board; we are quite willing to make sacrifices with how money is allocated to make sure that he has some of the creature comforts he would like. However, because we do not immediately adopt his perspective or way of doing things, I will argue with him or ask for explanations about why he wants things done certain ways, the kids have to be told things multiple times and he has to deal with everyday inconveniences he feels that he is not getting the respect he deserves. When things go wrong, he inevitably connects this to some rule, demand or idea he has expressed which if it had been followed properly (according to him) would have prevented the problem. He once scolded our boys for not washing their forks by hand (using the proper amount of water) after every meal when we ran out of forks (only time that has ever happened). He views all these things as a matter of respect or lack thereof because he sees problems as being the direct result of not listening to him which is a direct result of not having respect for him. Obviously, I disagree.

Financial - I made it clear that being home with the kids was a non-negotiable for me before we got married. He thought I would see things differently once I realized that I needed to think of his needs, as well as the kid's needs. It was never a dream of mine to stay home with kids, so I do see this as a real sacrifice on my part. He confessed to me a couple of years ago that he thought I wanted to stay home because I was too lazy to work. Working is much easier than being home with 4 kids all day, but anyhow. Over the last 6 years or so he has swung rather wildly on this issue. He says that he is glad I stuck to my guns about this issue and it is absolutely the right thing to do. However, he can't seem to let go of his resentment at being the sole breadwinner. He frequently points to my failings in the above areas as justification for his anger over this issue. I wish I would have realized that he wasn't on board with this before we got married because this is one of the very few deal breakers for me and I'm afraid that by the time the kids are old enough for me to rejoin the workforce, his resentment over this issue will be such that our marriage will be trashed beyond repair.

Anyhow, that's where we are. Again, advice and encouragement would be welcomed!

Any survivor of abuse will carry a ton of baggage into their marriage. The anger at what was done to him is surfacing now, when it's safe, and you are the safest person in his life. He can take it out on you because you will accept that. That's what marriage is.

But you will have to make it clear you can't continue to be his punching bag (sorry) for his issues with his mom. Request marriage counseling or private therapy for him. If nothing else, call the Harleys for a one-time consultation.

Continue to show him how much you appreciate what he does for the family, but also find a way to show him that your views are just as valid - for you. Just as his feelings are right because they're his feelings, your feelings are right, too. You might have to make this your 'issue' - the one thing you won't mold yourself to his views for, and explain it that way to him.

But he really needs to get a handle on his anger and obsessive tendencies, or it could start to make things worse for you. He needs to realize that what she expected of him and what he did to keep her happy wasn't normal - and that he is allowed to relax now that she isn't around to judge him.

I think abused or not, most men are practical creatures and see a family like a machine in some respects. They think if it's well oiled, it will run well.

That being said, he has to understand that you weren't the one who was abused, so it's difficult for you to view life in the same perspective as he does and to force you to see things from his perspective is domineering and (in its own way) abusive as well.

Life is supposed to be lived, enjoyed - not carried out. So, though his system works - he needs to ask himself if he's happy.

I'd like to suggest flylady.net. She's got a great system for helping with housework. Opt out of the daily e-mails, but print out her routines. Make a notebook for yourself with the routines in it (I even covered mine with plastic sleeves), and I think you'll find that the less 'stuff' you have to clean around, the easier life will be.

My other suggestion is to sit down and calculate all the expenses that would be required of you if you were working...

***Gas
***wardrobe
***child care
***lunches out and office pass-the-hat syndrome.
***possibly putting yourselves in a higher tax bracket.
***More convenience/fast food purchases

This possibly lost if you were working...

***Kids grades
***Less quality time for the kids
***No time to clip coupons, really think about economizing and coordination of errands.
***Messier house

Men often think from a practical black/white standpoint, so write it all down and figure out how much you might get paid if you were working, minus the expenses and ask him if he really thinks it would be worth it.

Second, remind him that if he were a single father, he would have to do what he's doing now plus all the housework, childcare, cooking, shopping, etc. That no matter how you look at it, these things HAVE to be done in order to run a household. If you weren't around, he would likely have to hire someone for (figure out how much he'd have to pay that person, and get some figures from reliable local resources to back you up.) Get the names of the businesses and the quoted prices and everything on paper.

SO...as a SAHM of 4 with a hubby who provides for us solely...I can relate to your post. However I got these points acrossed many many years ago....

Kids, you are COMPLETLY correct...they will be kids..We have raised our children (13, 11, 8, 3) to be responsible children and my 13 yr old is very very (sometimes too) mature for his age, yet he still has the child impulses...Your hubby needs to remember that unless he wants HIS children to resent him like he resents his abusive mother he should probably lighten up..I mean that is withsatnding they aren't running around being obnoxious brats...


I grew up with a perfectionist as a mom, I hated cleaning ...However, with me, I keep a clean house for various reasons. I like it clean, he likes it clean..Now..I truley beieve thatif you are staying at home you should find it in your day to cleanup your house. No one likes to live in a sty...

Meet in the middle, keep it cleaned up and have him help you whe he is home...


Er, NO..While I agree that keeping a neat house and well behaved kids are i,portant. These things do not revolve around him, nor does it mean just because he holds the job that he is excluded in the area of sayig thank you and helping out when he is home. I once told my hubby that f he thought he could do it better he was more than welcone to try. I had surgery last yr and then ended up back in the hospital from compications. While I was in the rcovery room, he called me an asked me "hunny I know you are hurting but I need your help, walk me through what you do at night"...He could do it, but he learned first hand what it was I really do DO..

Hmm, financials...Make it very clear to him, no matter your employment situation you are MARRIED and his money is yours and yours his. And that you do in fact work. and probably work harder than him, I can say this honestly. He has NO right what so ever to say anythign about you spending money, unless you are over spending.

I hope I made sense...

sounds like you need to go out and get a job to support you and the kids and let him find out what life witout you would be like. there are so many things that i believe Dr. H would tell you i can't even to begin with them all.

Your H is a control freak jsut like my ex. And when he didn't get things "just his way" he went out looking for another. Well he found one --- and now he's running back to me. I told him no more contact - he chose what he wanted -- live with it. He's more miserabe now than ever. He's put on extreme amounts of weight and ha started letting other things go downhill that never were an issue when we were together. I always tried to make him happy. He kept himself up, his Harley up, anything that HE wanted was what came first. Now he's having to deal with the reality of the fact that it wasn't me it was him. He even admitted it once and said that his new marriage was a mistake. I just let him know that it was HIS MISTAKE -- NOT MINE and to leave me alone unless he was single again and getting the help HE needed.

Your husband is almost an exact copy of mine and there are many similarities in our situation in life (he being an executive, me being stay at home mother with 3 children). Like your husband, mine also comes from an abusive family where he was raised by rigid, cold and authoritarian parents. Almost during our entire marriage (24 years) he constantly critized me and the children and was verbally abusive. Just like your husband, he viewed any imperfection on my or the children's part as a lack of respect for him and saw problems as being the direct result of not listening to him.

I think that these type of men have a compulsive desire to be critical and will always find something. I am also by nature a terrible slob at housekeeping. I am very fortunate that I can employ a full time housekeeper to deal with this issue. However, even when my house is being cleaned everyday, he would find other things to criticize: for example, he would ask me "to tell the housekeeper "to shine his shoes better"". He would never tell her himself, he feels that I should watch and control the housekeeper to such an extend that all his desires and wishes are fulfilled.

I can give you many more examples but that is not going to help you. However, I can tell you what happened to my husband and where he is now.

Two years ago he hit rock bottom. All at about the same time, he unexpectedly lost his job, I found out that he had been unfaithful to me for many years and he fell into a deep midlife crisis. I begged him to seek help. Fortunately he agreed and we found a terrific IC. He has been in counseling for almost two years now and the IC made him see that he has been continuing the abuse by his parents towards me and our children. It has been a long and painful process and he is probably only halfway but he is at least able to see that he himself is to a large extend to blame for the misery and dysfunction in our family.

I don't know yet whether there will be a happy end, but at least there is a great deal of hope now. He is repentant for the pain he caused and he works very hard to improve. This is very difficult for him as being critical is almost his second nature. There are frequent setbacks but overall, he is has become a better father and husband than he has ever been.

Please force you husband to seek help, find a very good therapist who understands abuse. I wish you all the best. My heart goes out to you.

Find some reports on his type of person and print them out. Hand them to him. Tell him you can no longer try to live up to impossible standards, this is why (hand him the papers), and from now on you'll be taking care of your family the way YOU feel it needs to be taken care of, since you are just as capable of determining the right way to do something as he is. Then tell him if he disagrees with the decisions you are making, you'll be glad to sit down at the table and work out a compromise. You'll never get the better treatment if you don't change your own dance.

My husband is exactly like this...very successful, great provider, highly critical, perfectionist, etc. He was NOT abused or mistreated in any way. As far as I can tell or any therapist can ascertain, he had a pretty good childhood, still has a good relationship with his parents, etc.

While this can result from an abusive/domineering parent - it is also a personality type that some people are just born with. It is, in part, a way of dealing with anxiety and the fear of not being perfect. My husband and I are in weekly counseling and this is one of the biggest issues we are dealing with and probably the #1 reason I left in the first place. It is tremendously stressful to live with someone like this for many years. The marriage counselor says my husband has an 'unrelenting standards' schema. I googled it and found a good definition for you.

UNRELENTING STANDARDS / HYPERCRITICALNESS (US)

The underlying belief that one must strive to meet very high internalized standards of behavior and performance, usually to avoid criticism. Typically results in feelings of pressure or difficulty slowing down; and in hypercriticalness toward oneself and others. Must involve significant impairment in: pleasure, relaxation, health, self-esteem, sense of accomplishment, or satisfying relationships.
Unrelenting standards typically present as: (a) perfectionism, inordinate attention to detail, or an underestimate of how good one's own performance is relative to the norm; (b) rigid rules and “shoulds” in many areas of life, including unrealistically high moral, ethical, cultural, or religious precepts; or (c) preoccupation with time and efficiency, so that more can be accomplished.

Your husband is probably very successful precisely because he does have this type of personality. He expects a lot from others because he expects a lot from himself. The problem is it doesn't work well within a marriage because a marriage is a partnership, not a boss-subordinate relationship, nor a parent-child relationship.

Our MC told my husband last week that this type of behavior (critical, perfectionism) is a destroyer of relationships (both with spouses and children) if it goes unchecked. No one want to live with a critic (that's right out of the Love Busters book). It also makes a person miserable because they are highly critical with themselves. They are constantly 'pushing' themselves to be better, do more. They can never just relax and be happy with the status quo. They look around at others and think, 'How can anyone be so lazy?"

I bet your husband looks at things from a purely 'logical' point of view. Mine does and it is very hard to argue with him - he always 'wins'. Our problem is I'm addressing issues from a 'feelings' perspective and he is responding from a 'logical' perspective. We are on two different freeways, so to speak, and our communications tend to leave us both frustrated and upset. The MC is trying to get us both driving on the same freeway, in the same direction. Not an easy thing to do at times.

I'm afraid the only thing that has worked for us is weekly marriage counseling. It took me leaving for him to get serious about making the necessary changes and, frankly, we couldn't do it without a counselor. We are 3 months into weekly counseling and the changes are very slow and comes in fits and starts. We both have to work on it day in and day out. There is a ton of great information here on MBers and the books are wonderful. I utilize both the counselor and this website for help and ideas. Good luck.

Don't attempt to tell him how to feel. His feelings ARE his feelings, just as yours are. Most people don't appreciate being told how to feel, or how to do something - and attempting to teach a spouse is usually a Lovebuster.

Rather, remember your feelings are as important as his. Be respectful when he voices his opinions. Respectfully add yours. Seek first to understand....then negotiate. If you're actively in negotiation attempts during a conversation, and he brings out another "curve ball," add that consideration into the mix. Your curve balls are just as important!

For example: He complains the house is a mess. You hand him the broom, with a smile, saying if he'll sweep you'll tackle the dishes. Or, you suggest hiring a maid who will come in a couple days a week. He argues you're a stay-at-home-mom, good heavens, no! You ask if working part-time from home would prompt him to consider a maid....or, the children can take on a few more daily tasks with positive reinforcement incentives.....

I've used this little "trick" before with my perfectionist H - get "caught" housecleaning when he's leaving/arriving. It's not really doing MORE on your part, but the timing of it is kinda soothing to our partners - they SEE us doing what they want, lol.