I am a WS, and his is my first post on MB. I suppose I can post more of the details later, but here are the basics. H and I have been married just over 19 years. Four sons, ages 18, 17, and twin 14 yr olds.

I have had two PA over the course of our marriage. One about 9 years ago and one more recently last year. The first PA was more casual, if that term can be applied to an affair. We weren't in love, it was just about the emotional and physical connection and ended about a year after it started, and we remained friends afterwards. My husband never found out (until a few days ago actually)about it and the issues in our marriage were never addressed. The marriage was definitely on the downward spiral. This last PA was definitely more serious. I ended up falling in love with him and leaving my husband and kids to be with this man. I am back now, and have been home for 10 months. I have had NC with the OM for these 10 months.

So, here's where I am. Stalled in this spot. My husband has been visiting this site often and trying to implement the recommendations here, but I have been resistant. He has finally convinced me to post. I have basically just been here for these 10 months. Drifting through the days, not really doing any work on the marriage. Just trying to avoid conflict. I do not feel any love my husband, and I feel that I still harbor a lot of resentment for the things that went wrong in our marriage. But I am here, and I am willing to try.

I need advice. Especially from other WS. What do I do? How do I get over this A and build a new relationship with my H?

Welcome to MB.

Have you read about affairs and also read DR Harleys Basic concepts? If you follow those concepts you can fall in love with your husband again.

What is your husbands posting name?

(Click on the Q&A columns above for the infidelity FAQ's and click on Basic Concepts above for the other)

Yes, I've explored this site and read the basic concepts. Some are easier to grasp and act on than others. The Love Bank, Love Busters, Giver/Taker, States of Mind...I get these. Some of the others are harder.

Example: Emotional Needs. I have a strong need for affection, something that has seriously been lacking in our relationship for many years. He knows this. But when he tries to touch me now...or kiss me...or any other display of affection, I freeze up. It feels wrong...fake. Like he's only doing it because he knows he's suppose to. The same goes in reverse. I find it hard to do things for him that I know he needs, but I really don't want to do, but know that I should want to do... Wow, does that sentence make sense?

Undivided attention? 15 hours a week? Right now, to me that sounds like torture. Being alone for a few hours usually descend into a lecture session about how I'm not doing enough to repair the damage I've done.

I think that what compounds the situation is that we were doing so poorly before the affair. it was like having a roomate...one you couldn't stand. I wanted to separate for months before I got involved with the OM. We had quite enough issues to deal with already and I went and threw fuel on the fire. I got stupid. Really stupid. I acknowledge that.

I don't know. Is the idea suppose to be fake it 'til you feel it? I guess that's why I want to hear from other FWW. How do I get past what my emotions are telling me to do and start doing what my brain is telling me is the right thing to do? And when does it start to feel real instead of like an act?



BTW my husband's posting name is soon18. He hasn't posted a lot, but I know he's on here reading daily.

Honestly, it will take about 6 months of working on your marriage before you'll even feel anything for your BH, but it will take at least two years to get where you need to be. You have got to let go of the, "I don't want to try if I don't believe it will help" attitude, and just do it. It's like starting to work out when you are about 100 lbs overweight. At first it will be torture as you try and get used to running 5 miles a day when you haven't exercised in 10 years. However, after a month goes by and you see that you've lost 20 lbs, you will start to like the changes that are happening, and it will be easier to stick with. Once you've lost the 100 lbs, you will be extremely thankful that you took the steps to change your health and will probably continue to exercise to keep the weight off because you feel so much better now than before. You just need to get up the initiative to start doing the hard work. Right now, your WH has endured your affairs and may not be emotionally able to give 100%, so you need to lead the effort. As angry as you are for the way your marriage declined, he has every right to be more angry and not want to work on your marriage, but yet he has taken you back and continues to try.

Did you ever write a No Contact Letter approved by your BH and sent to the OM?

Have you been transparent in all your communication channels to help ensure your BH that there is no contact?

You sound foggy to me. Contact foggy. Sorry but you really do.


Every single betrayed spouse at this site has heard the exact same thing repeatedly. “Oh, the state of the marriage and the adultery have nothing to do with each other.”

You are still citing justifications for your affair and appear totally unwilling to do any hard work to rebuild your relationship. You are sitting on the couch waiting for feelings to return. It does not work that way. There is no magic pill here. It takes work.

Have you shown any regret to your BH for your actions? Have you made any repentance or restitution? Are you doing any rehabilitation to protect the marriage from future adultery?

Guess what? We are going to recommend 15 hours a week of companionship and recreation. We are going to recommend that you work on meeting his emotional needs and he yours. We are going to push for boundaries and for the Policy of Joint Agreement.


Well, he should not be doing that however, by your own admission, you have done nothing to repair the damage you have done.

We have a few awesome FWW’s on this board and I hope they come around soon to offer their thoughts. Just be warned, they will be far more direct than me.

I am glad you came here but you have a lot of serious work to do now. I hope that for your husband and children you are up for it.

As long as you are both on board here together you really need to contact the Harley’s for an appointment. They can help you put together a real and focused recovery plan. Do that for your family today.

The idea is to go thru the motions, every day--BOTH OF YOU. Over time, the love will build.

My WH was exactly like this. HE just sat and waited for the feelings to come, even told me that was what he was doing. They never did. He wasn't PURSUING me, he wasn't doing the work necessary for HIM to heal and to move toward forgiving ME for the state of the M prior to his A. He carried his anger and entitlement around as a shield that kept me away. In the end, he did a really good job of alienating me, and showing me that I was not loved, or worthy of his effort. So, he sat in his entitled slump until I asked him to leave (because I'm FAR TOO WORTHY for that crap).

We all have our limits.

What will it really hurt you to go thru the motions? You have done a lot of damage, being a serial cheater. YOU CHOSE TO RETURN TO YOUR MARRIAGE. Since you did, start doing the work to repair the damage that you did and build a better you, a better marriage. Otherwise, you are wasting your BH's precious time.

No..no NC letter...didn't seem neccessary. OM ended it all quite thoroughly when I told him that I was leaving him to go home to my family. Yelled and screamed, told me to never contact him again and demanded repayment for money loaned and things purchased.

I've been as transparent as possible. I do have work email that he cannot have access to, but other than that...

"Contact foggy?" I assume you mean that I sound like I'm still in contact with him? Not.

I don't feel I'm justifying the affair, and at no point did I say that the state of the marriage and the adultery had nothing to do with each other. Obviously they do!

Nothing can justify me bringing another person into out marriage. I had an affair and it was wrong! I was in a bad situation and I made a choice. The wrong one. Instead of telling him how I felt and working on our issues, I ran. I found someone new to help me dull the pain and just made it all worse.

But, come on, is the affair to blame for the years of non communication? The once a month bad sex? The not even kissing each other for months at a time. The 400 pt credit ratings we both have? The multitude of specific issues that I will NOT go into here? No. It's not.(and no... I'm not rewritng history...you can ask him yourself) We dug that hole, my husband and I. All I'm saying is that our issues run deep and there's a lot to be fixed.

I too hope that some of the other FWW come around soon cause I would love to hear how some of them started off emotionally and where they are now. Right now I feel hopeless. I know what has to be done. The rules are clearly laid out. It all just feels like such a lie right now and I want to hear that that will change.

It's not easy, but there is hope.

The affection and SF wasn't there for a LONG time. I didn't want to touch him and certainly didn't want him to touch me. Same went for his side. We agreed to this, and therefore knew our movements were not going to be 'fake'. And... had he tried to force himself on me, it would have been a major love buster. In fact all my EN were love busters. I didn't want HIM to do it. I wanted the OM to do it.

The 15 hours a week did seem like torture for both of us. So we started small. Being in the same room was an improvement so we started there. We watched movies together... on opposite sides of the room. (I know it's not recommended, but we had to start somewhere.) Eventually he started asking if I wanted popcorn. Then he moved over to my side of the room, and now we talk.

Yes, there are still bad days. When things get bad I still want to go back to OM, but those days are getting fewer and fewer. You have to slap yourself when you find yourself drifting and do something constructive for your marriage. Keep yourself busy and occupied till it gets better. Then you're okay again. The temptation is gone.

Thank you. Maybe starting off small is a good idea. Right now, 15 hrs just seems impossible. Ignoring each other has become such a habit for us over the years that I don't even think about it.

Humm...as I am typing this I just looked up and realized what we're doing. I am in the sitting room outside our bedroom watching TV and typing away on my laptop. He is 20 feet away on the Mac with his headphones on...probably on the same website, but we haven't spoken a word to each other in probably an hour. Time to log off I think.

hbfour,

I've sort of been in your shoes, except that I never had any intention of leaving my husband. But what you said about running away from existing problems in the marriage by doing something that made everything much, much worse - that's all too familiar.

But about things feeling "fake" - my husband said something similar when I suggested that we start doing something fun together on a regular basis (fulfilling his need for recreational companionship). Since I've been the one more interested in working things out, I picked an activity he liked that I previously hadn't been very interested in. So he thought that was "fake" but I reminded him that when we first got together I read some of his favorite history books just to learn more about him, and that's the sort of thing people naturally do early in a relationship that draws them together in the first place.

When you're in the "falling in love" or infatuation phase, you automatically do certain things to increase that feeling. But people aren't really capable of effortlessly staying in that phase forever. (There was actually a study showing that it never lasts more than 3 years.) The Harley's argue that a deliberate effort to reintroduce those initial courtship behaviors leads to falling in love all over again. And those courtship behaviors tend to be those that fulfill the other person's top 5 emotional needs.

It feels fake now because you're not feeling it yet, but you will. It's just that because the relationship is no longer new, it takes a deliberate effort to start doing and keep doing what seems to come naturally when a relationship first starts. Affairs are attractive because you get the feelings of infatuation without any work - but what you're not getting (and putting at risk) is a relationship grounded in reality with a shared history with someone who knows you better than anyone else ever could.

Undoubtedly, much of your upcoming marriage building will have to be work - you'll have to have a lot of uncomfortable conversations, fights even - and, unless you have a really odd husband like mine who doesn't want to know anything - you'll have to answer all sorts of questions you don't want to answer. But you definitely will also want some time set aside for fun - because that's what brings people together. And the more fun you have together, the more time you'll want to spend together (and the less "fake" everything will seem.) Also, recreational companionship tends to be on the male list of top emotional needs anyway. So think of something you can do together.

I'm a FWS. I'm an expert on breaking up with the OP...I did it 4 times.

First, you need to talk to someone about the A. It can be your H or it can be a counselor. Most likely, you will need a good, pro-marriage counselor. (I would suggest contacting Catholic Charities).

Why? Because you have to see OP for what he was, and the A for what it was--not the "fairy tale" you imagine it to be. (And it was a fairy tale, trust me...)

People are going to tell you to "try to remember the way you felt about your H was when you got married". I disagree. You aren't the same person you were 17 years ago and he isn't either. So, you have to build on the many, many things you have in common--family, children, friends, property, etc.

As for your resentment, I think many FWSs will understand what you are saying. I certainly do. The problem, though, wasn't with your H, it was with you. You have to learn to scream, shout, and demand when you want something in clear terms.

Here are some simple rules:

(1) Your H is not a mind reader. If you want something, you have to tell him in clear, precise language. If you don't, then it is *YOUR* fault if you don't get it. (That goes for birthday, anniversary, mother's day, etc. gifts and being taken out for dinner.)
(2) Don't "mind rape". "Mind rape" is where you get p*ssed about something, and instead of saying "you really p*ssed me off" you start thinking in your head stuff like "he doesn't care about me. he is inconsiderate. he is an a**hole.")
(3) Tell the truth. Answer every question he asks about the A in as much detail as you can. If need be, set a time limit of 1 hour per day to talk about it.

As to "love"--you don't know what love is. You are stuck with the idea that the intense passion you feel during the first two years of a relationship is love. "Love" is true, deep intimacy and trust with another human being.

Believe it or not, I felt similar to the way you did some 12 years ago. Right now, I can tell you that I wouldn't trade what I have with my W now for anything on this earth. It is wonderful. As corny as it may sound, I thank God a couple of times a day for being married to her.

JM

HB4,

The idea of spending 15 hours per week being lectured and ridiculed doesn't sound like much fun...

But that isn't the intent of the 15 hours per week! It is what Dr Harley calls The Policy of Undivided Attention and is meant to be spent together doing recreational activities. And I know you don't have time for 15 hours per week of hiking in the mountains and biking along the beach and stuff like that.

But you can spend time doing other things you both enjoy and doing them together. These don't have to be special trips planned for weeks in advance. That isn't what you did when you first met, is it? I would say that you probably just found stuff to enjoy in each other's presence. You watched television, took a walk around the block, sat together on a bus bench and just held hands...

I know when my wife and I first met we played a lot of cards together and also spent a lot of time taking walks in the park or even just around the yard in the darkness. In fact it was as we walked through her step father's garden one night that I first realized that I was "in love" with her.

The hard work of "working on the relationship" needs to be done during a scheduled time as well. But it is not and should not be a part of the 15 hours.

You see, if you spend time together meeting each other's most basic and important emotional needs while having fun doing it, you will begin to look forward to that time together. You will eventually come to have feelings for each other once more and the pressure will lessen somewhat. At that point you will be able to deal with the stress of recovery and deep communication. But when you feel yourself slipping back into those old patterns of resentment and justification, you need to break from "recovery" and just build each other's love back up for a while.

The secret to all of this MB stuff is really those 15 hours per week, because it is in those 15 hours that you fall in love with each other again and again. Communicating really well will not save your marriage but might make your marriage better than it was. But you need to fill your love banks first and fix the "issues" as a second priority.

I don't know if you have read this yet, but check out this link...
Recreational Enjoyment Index

You and your husband can fill it out together. In fact just reading it can be fun as you each rank certain activities for enjoyment...

Rank from 1 to 5, 5 being the highest enjoyment...

1)Competitive Knitting (spectator)
2)Competitive Knitting (participant)
3)belching in public places...


OK. So those aren't real question and they aren't really funny, but some of the ideas might strike you that way.

Once you have completed it, I would bet that you will find things that you both enjoy doing that you never thought of. You will also have another list that will be things that one of you enjoys a lot and the the other only tolerates. These things are gold! This is the list that makes deposits into each other's Love Bank faster than a Tax Refund Check.

You will also have a list that will contain stuff you both or just one of you absolutely hate....These are this to avoid doing, at least for now. Some of the things one of you hate and the other loves might be possible in the future, but don't try them in the first round.

And you don't have to do different stuff every time you are together. If you both enjoy watching TV, watch TV together. If you both enjoy working in the garden, start the weekend by weeding the flower beds together.

Talk about recovery issues at some other time and only for short duration.

Mark

Just for clarification (for those of you viewing at home)... I know that isn't the intent. I was so hurt that I couldn't bring myself to speak to him. I just wanted to vomit. I literally felt sick when I was with him. I would just stare and think "I want you to BURST into FLAMES". I wouldn't even ride in the car with him. So you can see... recreational activities were out of the question for me. Just being in the same room was taxing enough.

Now, we probably spend about 30+ hours a week together of undivided attention. It's not a problem. I rarely want him to burst into flames.

I think it's WONDERFUL if you can spend 15 hours a week with your spouse. I just needed to ride the MB short bus for awhile. I'm on honor roll now though.