Hi jlr1120,

It’s not over until it’s over. Your H “announce that he wants a divorce and can't ever be happy with (you) again...that he doesn't love (you) nor could he ever again,” but did he leave? This could turn out to be just another drop in the rollercoaster ride, of which there will undoubtedly be many on the road to recovery.

You are sorry for your A, and you both have been working on the M. He told you how he is feeling now, and you are seeing your MC again, which is a good next step to take. Are you also in IC (independent counseling)? Keep working on yourself and making any necessary changes (physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually). What’s EMDR?

Do you have a religious affiliation? You wrote that you “pray that he sees the reasons that he loved (you) in the first place.” Keep praying and making positive changes!

God bless,

Rose

The A was over the course of 10 months. It started as an EA and turned PA. I do recall the first time the OM made a passed at me. I laughed it off, he had been drinking, and said I was flattered but I still loved my husband and my marriage would be over if I did that...fast forward a few months and we get to the PA. The multiple D-Days was because my husband found out and then I continued. I finally woke up and stopped and then came clean.

Jennifer helped me see that the job took is toll on any love deposits I had made. I get that now. Before I hadn't thought of the time as something my H needed. He has always been indepedent and liked time alone. The reason this was to be my last busy season was because of my need for time with him. I had no idea that I would drain so much out of him when he really does like to be alone. Right now I am working on love deposits, nothing over the top because he won't see that as real, but just little things, until he can enjoy things again.

I have no concern whatever that my husband turned to a WS. He wouldn't...though had you asked me, I would have said I wouldn't either...but I have no concerns there.

I do realize that I alone am responsible for my choice/mistake. It does not anger/hurt/pain me to think about when he left so much. Once I realized that I had forgiven my H for how he hurt me I was able to take full responsibility. Yes, he hurt me but did not give a right to hurt him back. He came home and started marriage counseling with me, he was making an effort to bring joy and happiness back into our lives. Even after this, I didn't have the courtesy to respect him enough not to violate our marriage this way. I do get that, I'm not trying to pull one over anyone here or my H. I'm much healthier since I stopped blaming the situation and put the blame back on me. I just gave the back story on where my head was at, albeit the sewer, when I started the A. It seemed to be what people did here. It was not an excuse...just the way I felt at that time, not now. I do see that my decision kicked him in the gut over and over...his decision was just a slap on the wrist.

I am working on obtaining a new job. I am not worried about finding anything, I'm in an area that is short changed right now. My marriage is more important to me than my job, that is why we had decided it was the last busy season...I was foolish to think that one last busy season was ok. I'm want to do anything and everything I can to save our marriage. I just need some help.

jlr1120-

Did you see my post, or were we writing at the same time?

Rose

Rose,

I was writing at the same time.

I have thought about this being a down valley since he is there. We went to Cabo for a long weekend and had fun together. The first day back was fine and then the slow withdrawal started coming again. He plays basketball with the guys tonight and I have a book club tonight with the girls...so I'm nervous that any deposits I made over the long weekend will be emptied out in no time.

We are seeing our marriage counselor by our selves. He goes one week and I go the next. Right now she thinks that it would be better if it wasn't together. That seems odd to me but she helped to put us back on track before, I'll trust what she says and continue to read the MB books. EMDR (eye movement desensitizationg and Repocessing) will be with another therapist. It is designed to alleviate the distress associated with traumatic memories. The MC believes that this stress is bringing back the past trauma of sexual abuse and abondament. I'm not so sure that past is brought up but it is suppose to help with the stress now too...I cannnot make it through the day without my eyes whelling up with tears so I figure I'll give it a shot. It cannot hurt me.

As for religious afiliation, my faith was tested and I found my way back many years ago. I do not regularly attend church but I do pray to God and hope that he is watching out over the ones I love.

Thanks.

Have an affair with your husband. Wear him out. Do new things with him, excite him about you and being with you. Get him imagining about you again, and things (sexually) to do with you.

As a BH, in some sick twisted sense, there is a sense of 'loss' for lack of a better word...that you 'went out' and had this 'crazy fun sex' (no matter how it really was)...and that you gave that away to someone else. You stole it from him.

That may seem crazy to you...I don't know. But, I suspect that a small portion of that may be there.

I have been trying this approach but as my husband has told both the MC and myself, it does nothing, it feels just like sex, nothing special and intimate like it did before and in fact at times it makes him think that this must have been how it always was for me during the A (it wasn't). I'm caught because I know that the sexual part of our relationship was very important to him but to keep it active and fun it reminds him...and yet I think that without it I won't be depositing as many units into his love bank.

My marriage ended when my now ex-wife slept with another man. I had told my then wife that if she ever slept with another man I would divorce her. She put me thru so much that I am not sure she believed me.

Now when I read the above quote you even told the OM that your marriage would be over if you slept with him...but you did it anyway. You had to know that if you did it with him it might be it for your marriage but it still didn't stop you?


Then after that you continued to do it and rub his face in it. Now I am not pointing this out to hurt you but to understand why your husband might want out.

You have neglected him for too long. Having sex with another man is the worse thing that a man can go through. If he is anything like me he may know he may never be able to forgive you and also realizes that there is more to life than being married to someone that sleeps with other men and when she is done with that neglects him.

I guess what I would ask you is why should he stay married to you? Men are neglected in marriages and will still stay but when your wife has sex with another man and neglects you well it is just too much to take.

For me I divorced because I think if someone has a physical affair then they should be single so they can do that all they want. There is nothing my ex-wife could have done to bring me back so what you have to ask yourself is what kind of guy is he?

I am sure you are not a bad person at all. But even you knew that sleeping with that other guy would end your marriage and yet you did it.

I would not want any promises from you, I would want action. I guess how would you feel if your husband had an affair and you found out that he not only had sex with her but he also told her that he loved her. After rubbing your nose in it for a while he then stopped but he worked those hours and neglected you. My guess is that at that point you would probably decide that he is not worth the pain. That is what you are up against right now.

The only advice I can give is to try and make it up to him. It is going to take actions not words. Your word means nothing right now. And pray he can get over his wife sleeping with another man because some men cannot. I am one of those guys and no matter how my wife pleaded I just could not stay married.

You still have a chance but you have to show with actions. I also do not want to beat you up but sometimes we do things to ruin our lives and we cannot go back and undo it. I hope you can get him to see a reason to stay married to you. Remember it will take actions. Best of luck to you.

No, it didn't stop me because I was so selfish and needy. I knew that this was something that could destroy our marriage but at the time I really didn't care, I felt that it was already over and he had left me. I know NOW that that wasn't the case and I am the one and only person that has done this...but this is not what I want.

I'm trying my best not to beg or plead with my husband to stay. I am trying to show things thru actions. Every week I have one or two job interviews and I am sure to tell them to him. I have been picking up my more than my share of the domestic load, something that I did more of when we were first married. I'm waiting for the rain to stop so we can start spending time on the golf course together again and have been actively trying to engage him in games at nights.

Why should my husband stay married to me? It's an excellent question. I guess first and foremost is because I love him and I think behind the pain he does too (otherwise why see the MC, even if it is alone - I go alone too, or agree to six months). Also, I see now all the ways that I contributed to the marriage pain outside of the A and have been changing my habits to improve our lives together (this was something he had been doing too). I guess I was truely naive to think that we would be ok with four months of those hours, knowing that it was short term and not a long term plan. I was naive to think that I had deposited enough love units to sustain us for those four months, not considering that I probably just had given enough back to him to allow him to start to romatically love me again. I hadn't found MB at this point and didn't know about the 15 hours/week. It makes complete sense to me and I recall at our happiest times together we did have that much time together...the light bulb has clicked for the time aspect.

I'm a bit concerned that he is being seen individually. I would expect by this point, you two to be in the meetings together. That throws a big warning flag up for me that perhaps there is another party involved.

I do sense your remorse. Don't let the BH's beat you up too much. I do think there is some good advice mixed in here, amongst the anger and hurt.

I think your husband is probably feeling the death of the 'love' feelings right now, and deciding that he'd rather start over. What can you really do... just be a good wife. Be there, do your life...love him. He will have to choose his path, and all you can do is tell him that you want your life to go on with him, but you realize that is his choice if he wants it to. No ultimatums, no time frames, his healing is his business... Let's face it, there are no guarantess on this marriage stuff. A person can wake up mental any day of the year and walk out the door.

You just have to accept some things and keep on going. I don't think that you could maybe discuss some boundaries yourself, to make sure he understands that your screw up doesn't enable him to do so also. And it sucks, but his forgiveness doesn't entitle him to your forgiveness in the reverse direction. Of course, God has those type of expectations for us... but, we are man. There is no 'get out of jail free card' for him here. Maybe he can forget a birthday (or twenty) and about 4 anniversaries as well...but then, the game is up.

I have no concerns that there is OW for my husband. He really just states that he wants to be alone. I know where he is at all times, as he does with me, so I just don't think that it is a possibility at all. Nothing that I am concerned with...if there was someone else he would be gone.

The MC suggested seperate counseling right now, that my husband is not in a place to do anything to help the marriage and it might make it a quicker end. The MC is hoping that doing some things on their own (and then my things on my own) will help my husband get back to spot that he wants to work with me. The MC is helping him work thru his issues. It is still MC so anything that he says or that I say the MC can bring up in the others sessions. I'm not a big fan of the seperate sessions either but right now I have to put my trust in the MC.

I know that the ultimate decision is his, I just want to make sure that I have done everything humanly possible to make sure that I've done what I can to restore his love in me. It is also very lonely right now. I've also been talking to Jennifer in addition to the MC and she hit it on the head. I cannot really talk with my friends because they are there to protect me and the pain I'm in leads to say leave him. I'm doing my best to do the right thing, give my husband some space, apply the MB principles, work on my own grief/trauma and still maintain some semblence of normallcy so that any given point in time I don't fall apart. I try to calm myself with reminders of why I love my husband and why I want to be with him, and only him. The positive attitude though is a tough thing to maintain when it feels so hopeless.

I'm home from my meeting with the MC. It feels better now. I was so confused on why she recommended that we maintain our MC individually and see what happens. She told me that my husband is more open and can see the positives in me and our relationship when they meet alone but the MC thinks that my husband is not ready to share that openess with me.

We talked about what I was doing and would be doing in the future and she is very excited that the EMDR therapy will be starting next week. She thinks that this will help with "hate" talk that I have about what I've done and the person that it makes me. I guess I'm unsure how am suppose to be then. I'm trying to understand why it is important for me to forgive myself and not hate myself for the mistakes I made. While I thought my husband and I were in recovery I was thankful and grateful that he was able to give me another chance and could fill love for me. Am I just a babbling idiot or is this normal?

Also, with the reading I've been doing in the MB books they seem to be written from the prospect of the BS wanting to bring back the WS into the relationship. While I believe the principles are true and doing my best to apply them, I'm curious if there is anything written from the prospective of the WS wanting to restore the relationship with the BS...when the BS is the one that is unsure if the relationship is salvagable? Or am I a babbling idiot here too.

Last question, at least in this post. Jennifer talked to me about leaving short notes to my husband about what I'm learning/applying. This has been hard for me, not because I'm not learning anything, but because I don't know how to write this without it sounding like a teaching lesson - something I need to avoid because my husband feels that I have too much influence in our relationship and he needs more (he can't be the student all the time). Any suggestions?

You make a really good point. I also wondered about why they don’t do anything for a WS who has a BS that wants to leave or is thinking about it. Maybe it is because there are not a lot of WS who want to restore or put the effort into doing it.

If you read most the stories we have a lot of people that will take a lot of abuse from a WS. In my case as soon as I found out about the affair I told her we were done and have a nice life. She was stunned and tried to make me want to stay with her but I had told her I would leave if she cheated so she knew what was going to happen. If I would have went to a Plan A I am sure she would have treated me like crap and kept extending my pain. When I told her she could have him she knew she had messed up and wanted me back, go figure.

I read earlier that you were going to start golfing with your husband. Good for you I think that is a great idea. I love to golf and it would have meant something to me. I like your style and want to wish you the best. I am sorry if my questions earlier seemed harsh but I do wish you and your husband the best. Good luck!

Oh, I've been golfing with him for years but it has just the past few years where I've been confident enough to go to the big course. I was just sticking to the executive 9 courses. Golf has taught me patience and gives us plenty of time to enjoy each other, remain competitive (we were both college athletes) and be outside.

You were not harsh earlier. I welcome all insight/help that I can get at this time. This came as a real blow to me, I thought we had survived and it is draining to be the one putting in all the effort right now. I know this is what I need to do and pray that it works in the end.

I think the quick and short of it is that if you are using the MB prinicples, even one-sided, the side you are on is irrelevant. The Christian perspective is Christ loves us, even while we are unlovable. It's really similair.

Make him chose to leave at this point. Proceed forward as if you are married and plan on dying that way. Don't make it easy or accomodating for him to exit.

I'm glad you MC could give you satisfying answers. They make sense, but she should also help him feel safe sharing those things with you. And you have a responsiblity for allowing him to say hard things without recourse. (unless they merit it...and that just doesn't mean because your feelings got hurt).

Belive me, it's also different thinking of yourself as a worthless pos who cheated on your spouse and then actually having your spouse say it to you (at least I feel so) the few things my fww has shared with me about her experience have burned in my head, and means things she said to me never left. I can only imagine that if I ever said those things to her, they would follow her to the grave, inside her head. So, I don't say em.

I think I know that if it is going to work, it is going to work, but I think the length of time it takes to apply the principles is gruely when one-sided. I'm here to do it, keep it up and make sure that I cannot say that while I failed the marriage I also did everything in my power to restore it too. Assuming I get a great result, it will be worth the pain now.

I don't think I'm giving him any reason to leave at this point. I've been really watching my attitude around him...not being down about it when he is around. I mean, who would want to love someone that was always down. Staying calm, deep breaths, when he says or does something that is not supportive of the relationship is something I have to make a real effort to keep in my mind. I've been known to have a short fuse with my husband.

I can't even begin to imagine how my husband feels. I know how dark it felt for me while I was that person...to be on the receiving end...it brings me to tears to think about.

Were you always open to working on your marriage with your FWW?

Pre-A or Post?

As most guys, I was quite unaware of the situation of things for her. That was both of our faults.

Counciling...probably not so much pre-A. I might have considered it, but not understood why really.

Before or even during the A, I would have always wanted to work on our M as it was the most important thing in my life. Unfortunately, FWW's communication with me was apparently not always there, so I didn't know we even needed work done. (This aspect of the A bothers me more and more each day.)

Since D-Day, I can't say I've always wanted to work on our M, but I have not left, either. My whole startegy since the beginning was basically a "circle the wagons" kind of strategy. I made sure she was home and safe and not still running around and THEN I could work on what I wanted to do. I spent the first 6 weeks just gathering as much info as I could from her, from here, and from my confidants.

So, no, I did not always want to work on our M post-D-Day, but I also never ran away. Even in my worst times, I stayed in the house. I know myself enough to know that, had I left, I was done for good.

I'll take the staying as a good sign then, not just "I'm counting the days". I also know that seeing the MC is a good thing for us. I get very anxious and it spills out here (somewhat). I can't be anxious around my husband - he doesn't have the strength for both of us. I have to right now.

He seems a bit warmer yesterday and this morning. I suppose the key is to stay calm and not overwhelm him right now. My husband has always needed time to process and with the recent wound re-opened the process will probably take longer. He sees the MC tomorrow. She will normally email me just letting me know how it went generically (we'll talk more when I see her next) but she knows how the waiting would be for me...fear of the unknown and all.