Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 15 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 14 15
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 389
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Why do the supporters of the OM here never address the rights of the BH and the COM?

Would it add too many shades of gray to this argument for the OM's supporters? No longer making it only an issue of the OM's rights to be a father would then make defending OM's position vastly harder.


First of all, I am a BH, so supporting the OMs position here is not easy for me. However, I am also a father, a father who fought for and got custody of my children.

Second, let me say the person who first and foremost should have thought about the rights of the BH and the COM was the WW. Should the OM have thought about that....absolutely. But to ask more of him than we would ask of the WW is not fair, IMHO.

Third, I am not saying the OM should be allowed to interfere with the marriage, the BH, or the COM. However, I do think he has rights as the father of this child. He should be allowed visitation, even if supervised, and even if a method has to be set up so the BH and WW never have to interact with the OM. However, he is the father of this child.

No, DNA alone does not make someone a father. But this man has been involved with this child from the start, has wanted to be involved in the future, and should not be denied now because the WW cut him off.

I honestly believe this child would be better off knowing the truth, from the start, about his parents and his situation. Do you really think the child will never find out? How much damage will be done later in life when he finds out the truth?

Last edited by MichaelinDallas; 05/22/08 05:56 PM.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,884
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,884
Quote
But this man has been involved with this child from the start, has wanted to be involved in the future, and should not be denied now because the WW cut him off.

So, just because this guy had a few moments(in comparison to what the BH had from the moment the baby was born till D-day so we are comparing apples to apples here) to bond with this baby we should allow him to force his way into this recovering M?? The BH has been there from the birth of this child. Day in and day out. He has chosen NOT to contest paternity, which means he thinks of this child as HIS. SO, we are to just throw away the BH's wishes and bow to the demands(because that's what this OM is doing, because someone has taken his favorite play toy away) of this OM to allow visitation. If I'm not mistaken, the OM lives in FL, and the BH and WW live in KY? How often does visitation truly work in a situation where the OM lives in the same city, let alone the same state. This guy has state borders to cross, and a hotel room to pay for. Where is this child going to play?

From everything I've heard, this guy sounds much like the xom in my sitch, who was VERY violent and even stalked us till he left our area! THAT was frightening! So, would you say a man, who shows MANY of the same tendencies I saw in my own sitch BEFORE xom showed his true colors, should be allowed just because the DNA matches? I am telling you that this guy is just a time bomb waiting to go off, and it's going to hurt SO many more people than are already involved. I say the courts did the right thing, and if you think the WW is getting off scott free, well you are completely WRONG there! I deal with what I've done EVERY DAY! It's called consequences. They may not be visible to the outside world, but they are there never the less.

This M is MUCH better off with how the KY court ruled. I also agree with Mr. W, that if this OM is truly remorseful and truly begs forgiveness, then maybe, just maybe he may have a shot at getting to know this little guy before he turns 18. But, with everything he's done so far, that's going to be a very difficult thing to do. Making this SO public is the biggest issue that this family in KY is going to have to get over if the OM ever expects a chance, and that's not going to be easy.

JMHO


Tigger
me~BS & WS~38~~h~BS & WS~37 my d-days~7/92, 1/96, 7/00, 9/07
h's d-days~7/11/00 & 2 weeks later 3 COM, 1 OC(mine)
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
MichaelinDallas,

Your response to my post was to blame the WW and still remain silent on the rights of the BH and the COM.

"first and foremost should have thought about the rights of the BH and the COM was the WW"

That is a biased statement.

The WW and the OM were wrong to have an affair.

The OM was wrong to ignore the presumption law. Why does he place himself above the law?

"I am not saying the OM should be allowed to interfere with the marriage, the BH, or the COM"

But you then chose to ignore the negative impacts on them.

It has been proven that marriages can not heal when there is contact with the OM.

How is preventing this marriage from healing not going to hurt the BH?

How is preventing this marriage from healing not going to hurt the COM?

How is the OC having to live in two homes with two different sets of rules to follow good for the OC?

How is the OC to learn the values? Respect the sanctity of marriage?

What happens when the OC say's I OM does not make me do it, and refuses to follow the BH's and WW rules for the COM when in their home?

What happens when the OM works to undermine the family values of the WW and BH are teaching all of the childen?

The OM and the WW are being punished.

The BH is being punished with his wife having an affair, his wife having an OC, his marriage being harmed by the OM, having his private life dragged through the courts, newspapers, TV, the internet. Having his children's life turned up side down.

The OM's torture of this BH should stop.





Unfortunately children are adopted. Even though they were loved by their adoptive parents some have chosen to find their DNA parents.

General wisdom now holds that when an adopted child is old enough to learn that they were adopted that they should be told so.

Courts have now been letting records be opened to help reunite these parties.



This KY case is apples to oranges.



There will most likely a desire by the OC to eventually want to connect with the DNA dad. When the OC is old enough to learn about the OM he should be told. If the OC desires to be reunited with the DNA dad. But it most likely will have to be when the OC is a self supporting adult that can come and go as he pleases. This way the WW and BH can maintain NC forever.

At this point the OC should learn that his mothers marriage and family would of not been able to heal from his mothers affair with the OM present. That his mother had to make this decision to balance and meet the most amount of needs for all involved. She could not meet everyone's needs. The family had to come first before any particular individual. She did not make any decision to punish anyone but she recognizes that there was hurt felt as a result of her decisions'. But her decisions were based to cause the lowest overall level of pain. There were no decisions that could be made that would of been able to spare every one from pain.

Now as an adult he is capable to see who he wants on his own.

Last edited by TheRoad; 05/23/08 07:06 AM.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 389
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 389
I notice you selectively read my post without regard to the whole thing. I am done arguing on this issue other than to say I disagree with you and think the biological father has rights.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
I wish you would of addressed my questions and points that I have made but respect your right to not do so. I am content to let this matter rest between us.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 690
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 690
Quote
How much damage will be done later in life when he finds out the truth?

This one is easy, far less damage will be done to the OC for not knowing his biological father, growing up in a unified recovered family. The COM not being thrown to the dogs for the sake of the OC. The recovery of the M and healing of the BH.

Many people are adopted and grow up well adjusted for not having to know their biological parents, biology is the smallest part of parenting. The benefit, if any the OC would gain from knowing the biological parent is far less than the damage done to all for forcing the knowledge and the never ending contact with the OM.


Thank God the OW took her child and leaves us alone. She can raise her child and God willing develop a real relationship with a man who wants to parent with her. And leave my M to heal and keep the nightmare away from my COM.

If you haven't had this in your life and M then you really don't understand. It will truly twist all the moralistic views you have ever felt.


Me BS
D Day 4-2-2005
OC born 12-2004
DS 21, DS 12
Married 1993

May the love hidden deep inside your heart find the love waiting in your dreams. May the laughter that you find in your tomorrow wipe away the pain you find in your yesterdays.

Recovering....it's a long road, even with a dedicated FWH
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
The kicker here SHE the WW had two men knowing this child from birth and playing daddy until she got the BH had to be told. Her actions as a WW brought more into this than should have been or could have been. IF she would have just stopped the affair with om and went to her husband with this and NOT involved him from pregnancy and even worse after the baby was born she would have every right to choose NOT to let the om be a father.

Road or Fled, not sure which one of you to answer your question I can do that.....My children are from a divorced set of parents. They are well ajusted kids. Most of our rules are the same as they are common sense, but NOT all. They know that they have some different rules at there dads house and they know what the rules are here. They are not confussed over them nor have they EVER come to one of us and said "well dad lets me do this, or mom lets me do this". They know better.

Have they ever tried to play us against each other, you bet they have but we go to each other and say hey this is going on. But they did that before we ever split up.

Both my kids get straight A's & B's. They know they have to respect there alder's or there will be a price to pay. My x's gf can't stand me and the kids know this. I never understood it as I was happy that he had found someone and all........then when I put two and two together I figured out she was the Ow my husband was with before we split up. So it all made sense. I did not share that with my kids. I still make them respect her as there father shares a house with her. They don't have to like her but the do have to respect her in her house while they are there.

Yes my kids have had some problems with there dad and I splitting up, but It was handled and done in a correct inviroment that was best for my kids. So it does not have to be all gloom. I would have much rather stayed with my husband till death do us part, but that was not an option as both partners need to be in the marriage for it to work.

If xh is not willing to partipate in things like education or otherwise that then is his problem and I just take the lead and do it myself....so far it's worked out great. Otherwise I'd not have the great kids I have so far.

There are ways to work around contact when you have a stitch of an oc. All parties get to compromise. You say the bs should no have too correct? Well in reality you're right. But that is not always an option. The bs is an adult and can make decissions as an adult, the oc and the com can't. Or the OP's children can't either.

Yes, the marriage does need to heal from this and I know with enough people I've met through the years that it is much easier when an OC is not involved innocent as the oc is......it's just a fact. But when you bring another person (oc) into the mix it's not always black and white.

I have a feeling that because this has gone public the KY law may change as so many other states are doing for "parents" rights. You maynot see it as right, because you are looking at it through your pain as well. I understand that. I really do.

As a fow/oc if xmm were ever going to come around for his daughter he put me in a position of dening him or allowing it. That is not always the case though and how is it fair that a MM can go in and out of a child's life as he chooses but and when h's ready with with his wife then if it does not work out leave again, then when he feels they are ready again come back in. I've seen that too. Is that fair? But as a parent which is sad to a point, we have more rights than our children do. We can choose what we want to do. Then change our minds.

Now let me ask you how fair would it be of ME as a fow w/oc that if her father came into her life and intruded on MY life to NOT let him have his parental rights? I would be blasted all over this board and told that was the chance I took for sleeping with a MM. This is no different. The bh had a choice to make and that law JUST might not stay the same. The legisltors meet all the time to change laws. What happens NOW when that law gets changed and he wins in court?

Should there NOT have been a compromise (good for all 3 parties) versus what has happened?

Last edited by marysway; 05/23/08 10:28 PM.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
Quote
The legisltors meet all the time to change laws. What happens NOW when that law gets changed and he wins in court?

This ones an easy one:

Jon and Julia will move to a another presumption state the second it appears any bill to change the Kentucky law is set to pass and be signed by the Governor.

Laws take time. Perhaps you remember the Schoolhouse Rock short about "I'm just a bill, yes, I'm only a bill and I'm sitting here on Capital Hill". Bills get introduced...debated....public comment...then IF it passes in one chamber then it has to do the same in the other chamber. Then the 2 chambers have to do a Joint Committee and sort it all out before a final vote on the bill. THEN the Governor has to sign it.

The Ricketts will be safely in Pennsyvania, Michigan, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida or one of the other "safe" states thus escaping application of the new law to them.

That's also presuming the new law forces them to move. Most new laws have no retroactive application. The day Anthony was born he was, by the then current law, as interpreted by the Ky Supreme Court, PRESUMED to be Jon's son. The Kentucky legislature very likely can't or won't open that can of worms retroactively so the new law will specifically state it's effective date as only for newborns born after such and such date.


Quote
Should there NOT have been a compromise (good for all 3 parties) versus what has happened?

Yes there should but it's difficult negotiating with a terrorist. The Ricketts did offer a fairly reasonable settlement that Mr. Rhoades, though he likely won't admit it, would/should GLADLY accept today, if offered. The only reason he wasn't able to compel them to make a more substantial offer of settlement with him (which you can bet all the publicity and public outcry motivated them to pursue) was because Jon and his father were attorney's capable of affording to fight OM. Imagine if this weren't the case?. How much money Jon would have had to spend to defend his family from this mercinary marital gigolo??? You can bet MOST of these type cases settle because the poorer litigant HAS TO. There are still numerous states that this issue remains unsettled because the argument has NEVER been presented to the higher courts. Wonder why?? Probably becuase IF the OM wants to be in the kids life...and he's got money...he can make a claim and EXTORT his way into the family. They'll settle, more likely than not.

I doubt the Ricketts have any desire to "settle" anymore. Mr. Rhoades did WAY more than attempt to assert his rights. He's got this family posted all over the internet and he's stolen two years of their lives fighting for something he ultimately had no legal right to fight for in Kentucky. Just the other day he "claimed" he's going to be posting MORE incendiary pictures on his website. I can't imagine he actually held back some pictures he believes are worse than what's there. What's he got...more pictures of Julia breastfeeding or him breastfeeding???

Anyway...I'm hopeful a settlement could be reached someday. I WOULD be sympathetic to James were he to truly demonstate and BE repentent.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - I didn't change my mind about the case. As an attorney I can argue either side of the case. My earlier posts were merely an indication of where I believed James' attorney blew it. His attorney doesn't really care, though I can bet his attorney's rates went up and he's quite proud of having had HIS case go all the way to the Supreme Court of Kentucky. His lawyer lost his case for him but, I've seen it before, the opposing attorney's all go out for drinks after the long case is over with. All Mr. Rhoades gets is a legal bill, a beef and, maybe, a tshirt.




FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
I noticed the a-la-Demi Moore pic he has posted of Julia. Reprehensible. I rather doubt Julia gave her permission for that pic to be posted. To me, this is an example of James' vengeful nature. Destroys any compassion I felt for him in this situation.


Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Lucks
I noticed the a-la-Demi Moore pic he has posted of Julia. Reprehensible. I rather doubt Julia gave her permission for that pic to be posted. To me, this is an example of James' vengeful nature. Destroys any compassion I felt for him in this situation.

I just saw this. My question is why on earth would she poss for such a picture with her affair partner knowing that she had no intentions of (by her own words (not actions)after the fact) him being her child's father. In this picture she does NOt seem as if she was forced into it, but rather possed for it.

IMHO it goes to show we need to think before we do as it may come back to haunt us in the end. But it is even more proof IMHO that she was leading this man on regarding this child.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
Mr. W: the compromise they offered him by what I read included a therapist that was very involved in the Ricketts life. I am sure that James felt ambushed by this. I would have. A theripst not involved in the Ricketss Marriatal sessions, but someone that was third party unbias to all three adults would have been a much better choice for there "offer" to maybe go over better.

Although NOT with om, but with xh when things were getting really bad I went to him about putting my the kids in counseling for a bit and so we did.........then my xh and his girlfriend decided to start seeing the same counsler for ther own personal problems. When this was found out by me, I went to the counseler and told her I felt it was a conflict of interest and I was taking the kids out of her care and into someone else's care. My kids no longer felt safe to talk to her about things because they were seeing her too. There problems were with there father and the girlfriend and There problem (or the gf's problem) was with me. I felt it was a conflict of interest. Surprising enough I took them somewhere else and they were no conflicts and after about a month they were able to understand that the gf's attitude was not towards them but me and get over the whole hurt of it.

My point is they needed to trust without myself or my xh and his gf using them for our personal use. Maybe that is how james felt and you can't really blame him for that if that occurred to him.

Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
Quote
IMHO it goes to show we need to think before we do as it may come back to haunt us in the end.

Right. Like James' choice to post that pic.

Quote
In this picture she does NOt seem as if she was forced into it, but rather possed for it.

So you believe evidence of force is required to nix exposure? I was commenting on another (rash) decision in the chain of events. Of course she shouldn't have posed for that pic, for James. She shouldn't have been having an affair with him in the first place. He shouldn't have been in an affair with her. On and on.

Quote
But it is even more proof IMHO that she was leading this man on regarding this child.

Oh I completely disagree that it is "even more proof" that she was leading him on. As in, slanting the error scale heavier on her.

I'm pretty sure this convo did NOT happen:

"James, get the camera, I'm ready and posing. I definitely want this pic on a blog, for my H and the world to share!"

"Oh no, honey, it would be highly inappropriate for me to snap that pic. You're a married woman! And, after I DO, please don't make me post it! I mean it, I'm drawing the line there...."

This is one "shouldn't" that can be easily rectified. James, remove that pic from your blog. I believe you're attempting to intentionally hurt Jon with that pic, and rub salt in the open wounds of a recovering marriage. You can do that one little thing. Matter of fact, destroying all pics of Julia might help you get on with your own life. I don't see how you could ever have a healthy relationship with a woman until you put "the obsession of Julia" to rest. And I don't see how that pic in particular gets you any closer to visitation with your son. Isn't that your goal? Maybe not....


Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
Laura: that is not what I was implying. Not at all! I don't agree with posting that picture either. Not that I would have, but if I found a pic of me somewhere on the net I'd go blastic!

When you posted that the pic was up there I went and looked to see what you were talking about. I also read a HER emails to him and "I" can't get past the part that she was playing both of these men! Plain and simple.

I agree with you James needs to move on from JULIA. I am 100% in agreement with that.

I could be way off here and I'm not saying it's right, but his whole point of posting that picture as well as the emails is to show he had a realtionship with Julia and was "daddy" up until Julia chooses for him not to be. That is all I'm saying. I am in NO way defending his actions for posting that picture.

As well as trying to get into James head I try and understand Julia as well. Espcially as a mother. I can understand that she wants her husband to be the baby's father as she has choosen to stay with her husband. But I also see that she handled this all wrong! She was playing house with two men. In a sense if a child was NOT involved I see where most affairs happen that way, but a child was INVOLVED.

As screwed up as I WAS over it all, I had enough sense to choose my child over xmm. There was NO thought process in that. There was NO going back and forth on that decission. I did not have to sit there and think about it. SO as a mother wanting to keep her family intact her actions were less than horable for any of her kids. Until she got caught. I am assuming that she was put in the positon that she HAD no other choice but to come clean with her husband.

Just like I did and every other person who has gone through this "we have to reap what we sow".

As for her husband, I'd be blastic as well seeing that picture and with him being an attorney I'm sure he will have it down soon enough.

James is smack in the middle of this. the Rickets are smack in the middle of this. I read Mr. Ricketts depo. I can hear his confussion in his depo on his feelings. James is NOT going to see this yet. I don't think James is a dumb man and will see more clearly sooner I hope than later. Most of everyone's actions right now on based on anger. All three of them. Mr. ricketts did say in his depo that he feels there is room for James in Julian's life........but where I see the mistake is, is using there therpists for the go between. I honestly feel that non bias third party professional is best in this case. Not one of James's friends, or the ricketts either. It will only put all three on edge going either way of the above that I mentioned.

I just have a hard time with the fact that Julia played both of these men with a innocent child that will surely pay the price for all this. That makes me sad.

Julia can be truely sorry that she handled it the way she did but the fact remains we can not turn back time. It happened and now consquenes have to be paid for these actions. (I know I've been there).

Can we agree that I am not condoning James's actions only maybe seeing where his head is at?

James still blames the BH. That is a normal stage. Anyone going through this knows this. He sees Julia I'm sure as a confussed woman scared to death. I'm sure she is scared to death but not confussed. I KNOW that feeling. I had to realize trough counseling and learning about affairs that all actions are not towards the bs, but the op. No matter what reasons the bs might give the op or what the reason is the op has. The bottom line is the decissions the op makes. He/she sure the heck made the decission to cheat and is surely capable of making other decissions for him/herself.

James just wants to have a relationship with his son...and is angry. He is blaming the person HE feels in stopping that. In time he will see the whole picture.

As much as the bs does not want to hear this, I can only talk from experience (and again I am not saying this is right) you believe every word the op says. Just like the bs does. Sometimes a light bulb goes sooner than later and it all starts coming together of "what have I done and why was I apart of this" "What the heck was I thinking".

I hope that a settlement can be reached soon on this as that way all parties can move on and heal.

Ps.......luara I love your signiture line.

Last edited by marysway; 05/25/08 11:38 AM.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
Marysway,

One thing that being still does is it stops the damage. James is not being still. He is thrashing about.

I'm certain of one thing in all this - the wayward woman in this had a moment of clarity a lot sooner than the other man. She stopped thrashing back and forth between her "romantic" notion that James could be involved in this child's life and her children of marriage and betrayed husband could not be harmed by that. It's not a reality. James has made the pain much worse.

The reality is this child is going to know the nature of his origins. The family will not be able to hide from it. But James is not healthy and should not be involved in his child's life - because he has not learned to be still and recognize the bigger picture. He wants his way and harm will come when he doesn't get his way. Does that sound like a man who is in any way fit to make decisions regarding the life of SOMEONE ELSE? That's what mothers and fathers have to do - set aside their selfish wants for the needs of their children. James is not doing that.

The fact that you have compassion for him speaks to your generous spirit - not his worthiness.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
Kay, thank you for the complment. I just find it hard to UNDERSTAND that a man who is bio father and in that child's life is totally discredited because he made a mistake with the WW. I see all the blame put on the OM and the WW is a saint. I don't see it that way.

When you are married and have childrena and a life it's hard to thow it all away. It would have been easier the first 5 years of divorced life to stay with my husband for various reasons. But it was soooooooooo toxic and only I knew we were married. I am not just talking about his affair (cause I did not have real proof only gut until a few years after we split up). So I KNOW how that feels.

I'm sure her clairity did come to light. But I also feel that her actions before that clarity needed to be taken into consideration.

I think this man could calm down if he was just shown no other respect except for the respect of being this boy's father. If I am wrong.........I'll be the first one to come here and eat crow and accepting my lashings from everyone.

Just as I can see some of Mr. W's ideas, I also see it as the rights only of the bh. He is an adult. He did not deserve this by anymeans. Even if he is the devil himself and beat this woman to a pulp. She too would have choices. But no means does he deserve this.

James is hurt and mad. Right or wrong. I have kids from a brokn marriage and has some believe that it is all gloom and devasting for the kids of this, I don't believe this unless the toxic is carried to them. You deal with it that is in the best interest for them under the circumstances and put there needs first to deal with the circumstances.

Do I agree that some of the pictures he has posted should be removed. Yes I do. Very much so. Do I believe that he is unworthy of being a father because of it. NO. I've also read HER emails to him. Things she said in the depo and just going through an affair myself with a MM the feelings you can get and the bs that is told to you.

My first husband was a seriel cheater. He still is. I was engaged to man who cheated on me and thank goodness I found out sooner than later and called of the engagment. My 2nd husband cheated on me and was also emotionally unavilable to anyone but himself. It pretty safe to say there will not be a 3rd husband. But in all of it I blame my husband the man I was to marry. I'm sure I played parts in myself as it happened over and over and over. then I go and have this LTA w/a Mm. Yes I've done alot of counseling since then and know much more about myself thank goodness, but we all handle things differently. Just because he posted these pics does not mean he is unworthy of being a father.

Kay again thank you for the compliment. maybe it's the Libra in me????

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Mary

Your case was not the same as Julia's. You were not married when you had an OC and would of let the OM be a father if he had wanted to. Every mother normally wants their child to interact with their dad.


"Now let me ask you how fair would it be of ME as a fow w/oc that if her father came into her life and intruded on MY life to NOT let him have his parental rights? I would be blasted all over this board and told that was the chance I took for sleeping with a MM. This is no different."


Where is your BH's position on the OM wanting his rights as a DNA dad?

Oh! That's right you were not married when you had a affair with OM and he got you pregnant.

There was no marriage to recover.

Your children saw you pregnant then they had a new sibling. Your family was not broken apart but added to.




"I just saw this. My question is why on earth would she pose for such a picture with her affair partner knowing that she had no intentions of (by her own words (not actions)after the fact) him being her child's father. In this picture she does Not seem as if she was forced into it, but rather posed for it."

I saw that photo and Julia did not appear to be as at ease as in the other photos.

What man if he loved a woman would post her naked photo on the internet? Why embarrass the mother of his child? Why post it without Julia's permission? Why embarrass his son? Why make a decision that forces his son to face ridicule from his classmate and other peers by having his mother's naked photo on public display?

As to why did Julia posed for this photo. I have read many a time when a WS is having an affair they will do what ever they need to get their fix. WW's give up SF to get their missing needs met. WH's meet OW's needs to get SF. People involved in affairs are addicts willing to do almost anything to get their fix.

Adults having SF without safe sex. Worse than having nude photos taken. OM played with fire got burnt, now wants the public's sympathy and support as he sues the match company.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
Road if you would have read my post to Laura you will see my answer to that without repeating myself.

As to your question about If I were married. I would have two choices. I could have taken the "safer road" as a few other posters did and wake the heck up when I saw that pregnancy test to perserve my marriage or hope too........but if I would have taken he road that Juila took I would have brought it on myself th fight that the om is putting up to her.

I don't condone either parties actons but rather see "why". I also truely believe in "parents" rights. I've watched to many men get screwed. I've seen more get more rights as I've gotten older, and a few of those men have had to fight nail and tooth when the writing was on the wall.

I have no doubt that Mr. ricketts loves this little boy. If I read HIS depo correctly I even believe that althouh he is fighting this, he is also preparing himelf that he may have to share this child with James. If I read this correctly.

It's hard enough dealing with x's new bf/gf/new wife/husbands at times and I know how much harder it is to deal when an affair is involved. But as adults even when not fair we are legally able to make choises in our life.

Just because I did not have to deal with a husband does not mean it was a "walk in the park" for me. OH NO. I was Legally married still although seperated. My stbxh took this personally in more ways than one. I HAD TO TELL HIM I was pregnant before I told my kids. His very first words out of his mouth was "and I tried all those years to get pregnant" mad My first thought was "who was getting all those shots twice a day for 4 1/2 years? Who had all those miscarriages and your reply was "oh well, maybe next time". who had all the infertiltly problems? Not him ME. He was dating someone but still took it personally and I pid dearly for it. DEARLY. Not to mention having to explain No, it's not stxh's to all my co-workers and friends that dd not know about the affair. It was not as easy as you might think. Even if I wanted to try and push this child off as my twins full sibling it would have never flied as her father is 1/2 Asain and I am not. So I've got a child who is only 1/4 Asian but looks every bit Asain. Them are some strong genes I'll tell you and my twins are blond and light brown hair. Light skin.

I don't hang out with a lot of just swinging type of people. Most of my friends are Christain woman and high moral people. So no it was not a walk in the park, but I sucked it up and did what I felt was best that I could handle.

In short (long) If I would have handled it the way Julia did, I as a mother knowing the love I have for my children would have to do the right thing and take that chance as much as it would have killed me. I would have done that to myself by letting this man be father along with my husband at the same time. It would have Been the right thing to do. IMHO

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
I acknowledge you went through a lot of pain.

But Julia's BH wanted to recover and raise her OC as his.

Your BH/WH? Both? Do not which, but your H did not want to raise the OC or recover the marriage. You had to face the music. You man'd up and did what had to be done. But you were not faced with what Julia had to do. Some what similar but different.

You and your H went your separate ways. Julia is trying to recover her marriage. Every one that reads MB knows that it is near impossible to recover a marriage without NC from the OM.


Why should the law now protect the OM when he was morally wrong and his actions and result had no prior protection from the law?

"If I would have handled it the way Julia did, I as a mother knowing the love I have for my children would have to do the right thing and take that chance as much as it would have killed me. I would have done that to myself by letting this man be father along with my husband at the same time."

What would you of done if your husband was willing to raise the OC as his but could not recover your marriage with sharing custody with your OM? Your husband could not handle you having contact with OM for any reason?

Mary, what do you think about what I said about posting Julia's nude photo?

I saw that photo and Julia did not appear to be as at ease as in the other photos.
What man if he loved a woman would post her naked photo on the internet?
Why embarrass the mother of his child?
Why post it without Julia's permission?
Why embarrass his son?
Why make a decision that forces his son to face ridicule from his classmate and other peers by having his mother's naked photo on public display?



Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 104
Road:

First to clear up something. My husband was by NO means ever a BH. I begged him to leave six months before I had anything "affair" wise to do with xmm". He was dating before he left (although I at the time thought was Just after). He was NEVER a bh by me.

I am going to explain something to you that I don't share very often as it's something that my siblings and I have all had a hard time dealing with...all of us, then I'm going to answer this question to you. As well answer your question about my xh.

You said:
Quote
What would you of done if your husband was willing to raise the OC as his but could not recover your marriage with sharing custody with your OM? Your husband could not handle you having contact with OM for any reason?

I was raised in a very strict So Baptist family. My dad retired Minister. With my parents it was the church then them and/which had anything to do with the church then somewhere down the line if it would fit into the schedule then there was US. We were not allowed to be involved in any outside activiites (baseball, dance classes, soccor, basketball) unless it was strickly for the church. I could not even run for student body as it might disrupt my church activities or interfer. ONE time (and only one time) I asked my parents if my friend from school could spend the night and they said yes. Her parents chathlic and very involved in there faith. My parents asked her if she was a christain and she said yes then preceeded to tell them what church she belonged to then they blasted her. I was never so embrassed in my life. I never again asked if any friend could spend he night.

It took me 10 years except for weddings or funerals to ever walk into a church again. That is how all of my siblings are. I love the "christain" church I am in and I do believe in marraige has to come first in order to raise your kids and teach your kids in most areas. BUT if I had to choose my kids welfare over my marriage I would do it in a heartbeat. And I did. I don't believe if I WERE to ever marry again (and that is a huge if since I clearly have bad judgment with men) I would ever marry a man that is NOT a christian. My xh clearly was not. I thought I could fix him.

SO if I was married still to xh and DID as Julia did handled it, I would have no choice for the welbeing (long picture here) to stop the lying and reap what I sow from my actions even if that meant my husband could not handle it and he left. I would most defeintly clean up MY mess and try and do what it took to keep my husband by showing him ways to get around contact with xmm and that he could one day feel safe again, but I just could not allow a bio father especially bio father that I played daddy with not have contact or rights to his child.

I am not belittling how you and others feel Road. It is afterall your convictions and opinions. There are reasons we all feel the way we feel. I made a promise to myself before I gave birth to my twins that I would never put my needs/wants before my kids. They would come first when it comes to "the big picture".

It would have been easier for me to stay with my xh for financial reasons. Two incomes are better than one. I was use to a certain lifestyle and was able to work from home for the most part and still make a income...

I've already stated my thoughts on that nude picture of Julia. I'd be blastic. I believe James is in Angry stage and that is why he did it as to prove his point of timelines and there relationships. Not making excuses for him. Just trying to see where his head is at. He needs to get to a point where he feeling "indifferent".

There are ways to handle contact without seeing him. At some point the parents do need to talk, but there are also ways of doing that.

In my court papers with xmm HIS attorney stated that all communications will go through him and I only that his wife is NOT to be involved (sadly she P*ssed his attorney off). I know that she writes on behalf of him. I know this for things that are written and the style it is written. The difference I don't care. I'm indifferent about it all. It's not funny, it's not sad........it's nothing. When she tries to get into a B*tch fest with me, I don't reply. It's not worth it nor do I feel I need to use up my time fighting over something that will go nowhere and get no where. I'm indifferent. 4 years ago you bet I'd be right there in it.

I'm hoping that something between the three of them can be resolved so that all three parties can get to that point of "indifference" and all move on from this.

Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
Quote
First to clear up something. My husband was by NO means ever a BH. I begged him to leave six months before I had anything "affair" wise to do with xmm". He was dating before he left (although I at the time thought was Just after). He was NEVER a bh by me.

Mary, I'd like to ask a question, but first I'd like to say this isn't an inquisition...just trying to understand your point of view. You say your H was not a BH. But may we get technical for a moment - did your affair with xmm begin while you were still legally married? If so, then yes, your H was a BH. And you were a WW. I understand what you're saying, that he was dating before he left, so you may be kinda saying that it all canceled out "in the wash,"....but I don't think it does. Cancel out, that is. Things are what they are, no matter how convoluted the situation is. Seeing exactly what happened helps us grow. No rationalizations. No excuses. What our own part was...accept...and grow. Wouldn't you agree?


Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.
Page 9 of 15 1 2 7 8 9 10 11 14 15

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (1 invisible), 49 guests, and 65 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux, I.P., Alex82
71,727 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,545
Posts2,322,787
Members71,728
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5