Hi all,

I am new here, I posted another thread with specific questions about plan A, but have so many others I thought I would lay it all out there. I will start with my history,

H and I have been married since Aug 2002, We dated 2 years before that.

We lost our first daughter 2004 in a late 2nd trimester loss, I think that day was the the beginning of us not meeting each other emotional needs. Up until that point we were both devoted Christians. He says that day he turned his back on God.

We then had our daughter in 2005. I completly stopped meeting his emotional needs. I was so focused on the baby that when she was 6 months old he told me he was leaving. He moved out of our house and into his parents for 7 months. He came back, but honestly we didn't work on the marriage. We would have maybe one date every 4-5 months, and poured ourselves into work, school, and most of all our daughter.

In Dec 2007 I started feeling like he was hiding things, I confronted him, and he denied anything. Then the first week in Jan 08 I came home from work and all his things were gone. He handed me a letter and left, again moving to his parents. I found out I was pregnant 2 weeks later. We had started counseling right away.

In Feb 2008 a good friend of ours saw him leaving a bar with another woman. Then a few weeks later I found a valentines card in his car from another woman, and he still tried to deny and lie about it all. Even in counseling lying. Finally 2 days later he confessed. They had met up a handful of times, and gotten physical, kissing and fondeling. He called her in front of me, left a message on her cell phone that he was married (he had told her he was divorced) and that they couldn't talk to eachother ever again. He also told me the affair started in Feb the night my friend saw them.

He swore up and down it was over, but I was skeptical. I didn't know about the SAA book yet.

We continued counseling, and once in awhile he attended church with us. he wsa still living at his parents.

Then in March Easter weekend, I woke up bleeding and we lost our 3rd baby again in the second trimester. He stayed at our house while we delivered the baby, and through the week following. He cam to church with us and they started a 5 week marriage series. He agreed to stay home though the series and that we would both try to do what the pastor recommended. On the 4th week, another pastor and his wife testified about how they survived an affair in their early marriage. I took a lot from the sermon, and H said he did as well. Then 2 weeks later, I was on his computer and found a love letter from OW#1 dated early January. I also found emails back and forth from March. He said he was helping her with a power point presentation, which he was, but all her emails talked about how she loved him and missed him. And he didn't tell me about the emails, I discovered them as he was trying to hide them I confronted him about it, and he admitted the affair had actually started in January before he left. He still claimed no contact since the emails.

We met with the pastor the next day and him and his wife agreed to mentor us. He said we needed to read SAA. My husband was super on fire leaving the church that day, and totally committed to moving forward.

The next day I went on a 5 day trip with my daughter. (somthing I totally regret) During this time he met with the pastor one day while I was gone.

When I got back we immed got into arguments, and when the book came in he always had an excuse not to read it. I felt like somthing was not right, but when I confronted him, he denied.

He was still hiding money things from me, like the password to our joint checking acct. When I confronted him about it he got crazy defensive, and then didn't come home that night.

I talked with my pastor and he said he thought the affair wasn't over, and that his behavior was pointing to that. He encouraged me to keep reading the book.
The next day H came home to tell me he wanted a divorce. He agreed to stay home until the divorce was final.
My pastor encouraged me not to give in, and to search more for evidence. So I did and found many many text messages from one # followed by long phone conversations. I reversed looked up the number and it was a new woman. A teachers aide at his school.

I also found text messages from OW#1. He still had contact with her.

When I confronted him about OW#2 he said that nothing physical had happened yet. But that he was thinking about it. He also admitted that OW#1 texted him still and sometimes he got bored and would reply.

The next day his mom got him a new cell phone under her account, and he cancelled the one in my name. :eek:

So with my pastor's advice I asked him to leave. (I also am second guessing this) He moved out 5 days later.

In all this its important to me to point out that I am deeply religious and will not divorce for any reason. I am commited to my covenant, and will stand for my marriage until the day I die.


So here are my questions:

How do I work to meet my husbands emotional needs while he is living somewhere else?

Do I let him come to me? Or do i call him, text him ect?

How do I work on a plan (right now plan A) while being a standing wife. I feel most confused by this and plan B (since some of the things seem to contridict eachother- standing for restoration and plan B)

I have some (many) more, but thought I would start with those few.




I'm sure I have stuff to fill in too. Sorry if there is gaps.

Have you exposed his affairs to anyone besides your pastor?

Ooh! that was one of the questions I have!

Okay, so his parents know about OW#1 but thinks that it was a one night stand and they have no contact.

His parents love me a lot and want me in their family. So I am hoping I have that going for me. His mom though thinks I deserve better and is more pushing for divorce.

My mother knows about both OW.

H doesn't have many friends. He totally isolates himself, and really has no actual relationships in his life. (They kind of all disappeared when he stopped a relationship with Christ. Funny how that works)

My friends know about it. But other then that who do I expose it to?

I know this is hard but you really can't trust anything he says right now. I know you said he told you that he only texts OW#1 "when he gets bored," but this is really not a statement you can hang your hat on.

It is SO hard to wrap your head around that someone you trusted more than anyone would turn into such a liar and a cheat but they do. That's what makes things extra hard, if your H is the person you trusted with everything and confided in all of the time you have lost a lifeline.

But anyway, my point being that you should watch his actions. Let me see, how does it go? "Believe none of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see?" Something like that. If I got that wrong, someone please correct me!

I would talk to his parents again and make sure they know everything if I were you.

Is OW2 someone from work also? He should be exposed at work for sure. And you need to let both OW's know that you know.

My husband was/is the same way. Not many friends and the "friends" he has/had were female coworkers, mostly. Just a couple of males but no one to "hang out" with. We were each other's best friend and that makes things even more difficult when this happens. Is that how it was with the two of you?

I don't trust him at all right now. When he tells me he hasn't talked to them I don't believe him. Fool me once, shame on you,. fool me twice shame on me.

He works 2 jobs- OW#1 is from job #2 but has quit. OW#2 is from his job#1 (his actual career)

How do you expose someone at work? For OW#2 all I can prove is they talked to eachother on the phone 3 times that I wasn't home. I feel like bringing it to the administration would make me look like a fool. (He's a teacher)
I don't know how you tell the OW you know. I have never seen or met these women in my life. How do you go about that?

I thought about calling them with the number from the cell phone records, but what in the world do you say?


ETA: The OW#1 I don't think cares, he has flat our told her not to contact him, that he is married, and he needs to do the right thing, and she will lay quiet for a week or two when she starts texting him how she misses him so much and she is in love with him. She doesn't care that he is married AT ALL.

My other question is since he is living away from home he considers us seperated. So even if the OW say hey your wife called me, doesn't that just give him room to get really angry at me? Plus I know him well enough to know he would just tell them that we were seperated.

Exposing is the "stick" part of Plan A. The "carrot" is you being pleasant, etc.

I know it's hard, believe me, I had a lot of trouble when I started. Well, actually I was doing the carrot of Plan A for at least 4 months before I found MB and broke out the stick!! LOL!

When you expose at the workplace it's probably best to write a letter to HR. There are still companies who have a policy against coworkers dating, etc. I know they're out there! They are just few and far between these days.

I can post an example letter for you, it would probably be easiest to do that so you can get the idea. You have to let HR know that you want to save your marriage, this is not a revenge tool against your spouse. I think people are inclined to think that revenge is the motive when exposure is used. No. It's that you need all the help you can get and hopefully you will get help from the employer.

I'll have to find the letter, I think I put it on another hard drive because I was moving things around and cleaning up.

You are certain OW#1 is gone from the other workplace?

You should call and introduce yourself and let these OW's know that you love your husband and you want to save your marriage and that you have a small child together. If you get past the introduction that is!

If the OW's are married then you need to expose to their spouses. It helps to have some evidence when you do this. Sometimes the other spouse just won't believe it or will be in denial.

Oh, and never tell your WH that you are exposing his affair(s). This will give him time to make you look like a lunatic when you try to call and expose. Mine did a pretty good job of that with OWH for a while.

Not anymore!

Ive read through his work contract up and down, and there is nothing in there. He is a teacher so there is no HR,unless he is dating a student it isn't a problem.. (and actually there was an incident in the district where there was a relationship with a student and teacher and they didn't get fired) his other job is bartending and I know for sure they don't give a rats behind. His boss was there when it started, knows he's married ect. Not excatly a family values place.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I just am not sure what exposing it at work would be worth at this point, and am pretty positive it wouldn't make a difference.

I did expose it to his Mom tonight though. She is very supportive of me. Her and I talked about emotional needs too, a very good conversation.

I have a list of phone numbers I need to reverse lookup to get the phone # of OW#1, I should have paid for unlimited, I will do that next as soon as I get the money gathered.

A question about contacting the OW?

So how does it not all go crazy bad when they call him to tell them his wife called?

We are "playing nice" right now, I feel bad throwing it all away.

He's the one throwing it all away, not you. You need to get tough and stand up for yourself. Who cares if it isn't in their work contract. Meet with the administrators and show them the phone details from your provider. Then I might even tell OW#2 to lay off your husband in front of others. The whole point is to make it uncomfortable for them in public. Instead of sitting around with the other teachers at lunch chatting, they need to feel dirty and like outsiders because everyone knows their little dirty secrets. Tell his parents EVERYTHING. Find out who OW is and expose to her family. Expose to OW#1's family as well. Tell them to tell their daughter to stop being a homewrecker. Even if you have to go to plan B and won't divorce, get a legal separation, so your WH is on the hook for spousal support and child support, and get it deducted STRAIGHT from his paycheck. Being single won't be all it's cracked up to be then.

It's like this, when the cons of behaving like he currently is outweight the cons of being married, he'll start working on the marriage.

I am very sorry about the pregnancy losses...

there are never sufficient words for such a thing...
just that people are sad and sorry...

there is no doubt about the profound effect that has on both of you..

the fathers often feel helpless and isolated
sometimes there is great concern and compassion for the the mom and her loss...and dads feel very left out and insignificant...

I am not saying any of this automatically applies...

I am saying though to consider the possibility and perhaps reach out to his pain over the loss as well as yours....

His parents who supply shelter for a grown man who abandons his wife and children upon will are doing you and him and the children no good...

they are enablers....

the message a man sends to his children when the home becomes a revovling door teaches a very very poor lesson in problem solving..
in other words when things don't go your way ...abandon and conflict avoid...not good life skills


also one of the things with plan a is that you do things inspite of his actions or inactions...

while your name is covenantbride...reflect on what that means..

covnenant wives do not put the child/children above or before the core relationships of man and wife...

that is the priority and from there comes the ability to raise a healthy family...

part of the marriage covenant is the vow to cherish our spouse...and we can't cherish them if they aren't first priority...


this is in my opinion the most overlooked vow...and if people don't intend to do it in action should not waste their time saying it...

first thing you should do is ask him to please come home..

tell him you are sorry
for what you own in this...

sorry but I have to run now....
but that's one thing I would do first...
is ask him to come home...

ARK

The pregnancy losses have had a profound effect on him. Esp. the first as it was late 2nd trimester, we went through delivery, I hemmoraged, and he thought I was going to die to. He has never been the same since then.

I fully take responsibility for my contributions in making him feel like he was not my priority. If I could do it all differently I would. I have told him this, and he is apathetic. After God he should always be first. When our dd was born he was not. I know this created huge debt in our relationship. His attention also was all directed at her. We know we were not living our marriage as God intended.

I ask him to come home all the time. He says he has to figure out some things before he could ever do that (IMO he's not done having affairs).

He used to be a strong Christian until our first daughter died. He said that day he kicked God out of his life. I think now he is realising that his life is missing God, and he thinks he has down to much wrong to even ask for forgiveness. I personally find that a cop out. We all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory. Thats why we have a savior. I also think he is not willing to give his life back to God because he doesn't want to stop the sinful behavior. He said he doesn't want to do anything that takes work. :eek:


So I've been working on me, and all the things I have done to enable him, and my inequity in meeting his emotional needs. I do see where I have fallen him way short.

Cov,

I understand you're deeply religious and don't believe in divorce.

You have a biblically acceptable reason for divorce now after not one incident of cheating, but many.

Yes, try to follow the plans to get your marriage back, but don't dismiss the possibility of divorce.

As far as being a Christian goes: Belief itself is not enough. The scripture this weekend quoted Jesus directly when he said that simply doing great deeds in his name wasn't enough. The question is "Are you doing the father's will?"

So he's abandoned his faith and is a lost soul for now. But he's cheating on you with many women.

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't dimiss Plan D as an option because it may very well happen or you will subject yourself to a lifetime of heartache and betrayal after betrayal.

do you have the numbers for resources for loss...

it may be something that you and your husband can do together...

men truly try to fix things...

and losing a child is unfixable...for all parties involved...

it is heartbreaking...

have you researched for those resources...and then approached him about going...

don't ask him about going until you have the ducks lined up to make it happen....


ARK

I know I have a biblical reason to divorce, but through a lot of prayer, reading the word, and trying to follow God's path for me, I over and over am hearing not to give up. I was ready to throw in the towel, and the Lord said no. That the enemy is trying to attack our marriage, and that there is still two of us committed, Christ and I. He has instead guided me into a path that I need to step up and do my part to restore our marriage. That when my husband returns I will have followed God's will. God hates divorce. The bible tells us marriage is a blood covenant through Christ. I am standing by my covenant. I can not control my H but I can control myself and my own actions and I want them to be pleasing to the Lord and follow his will.

Plan D is not an option. With strength from the Lord I am able to handle anything that comes my way. The Lord has clearly directed me to a path of restoration, and I need to follow that. When I wanted to give up, I was flooded with the same message that I need to have faith in the healing power of Christ.

While it may be easier to look at Plan D, it isn't an option for me. Maybe it is for my H, that is between him and God. But for as long as I live, I will stand for my covenant marriage.

Just because there is a loop hole and that God will allow divorce in one instance doesn't mean that is his desire, for as long as the Lord is telling me to stand, I will.

My beliefs are my own, and they are the one thing I am certain in life about for my life.

I don't look down on those who choose divorce, I know for ME it is not an option.

Infidelity is a way that the enemy deceives us, a way to damage and destroy marriages and families. God isn't about family destruction, he is loving, and forgiving. And he tells us to strive to be like Christ. God doesn't give up on people.




Sorry If I offended anyone, or if you disagree, I just want to be clear on how sure I am of my beliefs. My heart is always open to God's will, I strive to follow it daily, even when I question it. His will is always good, and true.

He is going to individual counseling with our MC but they haven't gone there yet. Most of the time there has been so much drama they just talk about the last 2 weeks, and dont actually get anything worked on. He's also going to start meeting with our pastor, and I know he is aware of the situation and wants to work with H on or.

I think you are right on though, until he works past that he will never be able fix what he can, when he is fixed on what he can't.

He said when dd#! died that was the last time he put his faith in God, and God failed him. He wants to be back with the Lord, he just isn't there yet, and he's having a hard time getting there. Its a constant internal struggle for him.

I have another question about exposure.

What do you even say when calling the OP?

I mean other then Hey you nasty homewrecker

I have been pouring over phone and text records, and its just gross. If he would have spent as much time with me as these 2 OW on the phone, we would both have a lot of love deposits.

Use their Christian name, no surname, no mr or mrs, they do not deserve that form of respect.

Im really confused about the exposure part. I don't see it in SAA at all.

Contacting the OW ect, seem like LB. I thought plan A was avoiding upsetting your spouse?


Esp in the case of the first woman she knows he is is married and has a small child, but she doesn't care, she thinks she loves him.She has agressively persued him since his first NC request. (which he didn't stick to)

I was reading here http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=021071;p=1 ant it seems like contacting the OP isn't a great idea... that it only ends up hurting the BS?

I'm very confused as SAA doesn't mention this stuff other then copying a plan B letter to the OP....

Is there ever a point where there is actually confession? Or do most WS have to uncover the truth themselves?

I have another question, even though no one has offered any on my last few, but another exposure question.

I have a child support custody and spousal support agreement already. So we are being provided for.

But if I expose it at work, what if he does lose his job? I am a SAHM, we are in the house. If he can't pay for the house or bills, my dd and I will suffer.

Its not like another job is easy to come by, esp as a teacher, and it is summer.

We rely on his financial support.

He already got into it with administration this year, and I think any rocking the boat would cost him his job.

We live in an area that it takes most teachers about 2 1/2 years to find a job.

So you don't expose. The affair lives on. You end up divorced and losing your home.

Losing his job MAY be a consequence of HIS actions. Exposure is to kill the affair. You don't have a marriage right now as long as the affair is ongoing. Or as many say here, "Your marriage can survive his anger or the loss of a job, but it cannot survive an ongoing affair."